Perspective.

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
11,367
Reaction score
4,129
There will be exceptions, and we can't let those mislead us. Very few of us will have the genetics to maintain high physical activity (like hard sparring) into our 80's.
The exceptions shouldn't mislead, they should inspire., they show what's possible and it breaks the stereotype that "when I get a certain age than, I'm too old to do something" How many people do we already see come into this group asking if they are too old for martial arts. They already have that mentality of age defining what they can and cannot do before they even turn 40. Genetics for many people are unpredictable, it may be what screws you up or it may not be.

For me, I don't think I've ever done hard sparring. I don't think I've ever gone beyond an intermediate sparring level and that's only because hard sparring is damaging to the body in ways that may be permanent. It's no different than someone doing hard training for a sport, only to damage themselves and then be useless for actual game time. This is even more so with "fighting systems." So If I can't do hard sparring at 80 then nothing has changed. Besides at 80 I'm pretty sure intermediate level sparring for an 80 year old me is not at the same level the 40 year old me.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,506
Location
Manchester UK
The exceptions shouldn't mislead, they should inspire., they show what's possible and it breaks the stereotype that "when I get a certain age than, I'm too old to do something" How many people do we already see come into this group asking if they are too old for martial arts. They already have that mentality of age defining what they can and cannot do before they even turn 40. Genetics for many people are unpredictable, it may be what screws you up or it may not be.

For me, I don't think I've ever done hard sparring. I don't think I've ever gone beyond an intermediate sparring level and that's only because hard sparring is damaging to the body in ways that may be permanent. It's no different than someone doing hard training for a sport, only to damage themselves and then be useless for actual game time. This is even more so with "fighting systems." So If I can't do hard sparring at 80 then nothing has changed. Besides at 80 I'm pretty sure intermediate level sparring for an 80 year old me is not at the same level the 40 year old me.
yes and it just as likely you'll be sat dribbling in a nursing home waiting for someone to take you to the toilet , before your 80
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,794
Reaction score
8,998
Location
Hendersonville, NC
agree, when the subject of age comes up, people post up vids of remarkable people to show it doesn't matter, but they are just that,remarkable ,there probably a good few around but they make up a very small% of that age group. You can't determine from that that its possible for all people of that age to do the same .
I like to think I fall into the remarkable category, but I might just be deluding myself, its what middle aged men are prone to do. I am the fittest 50 odd year old I know and I know a good few, but I can't just take pride in that as its to a large part genetic,and that's just luck
I straddle the average on that. My joints are worse than average for my age, sometimes by a fair amount. The rest seems to be significantly better than average. And I can't claim it's from rigorous work to that end. Most of my exercise has been whatever I enjoyed - genetics have helped a lot. I've become more purposeful over the last few years, as I feel my body starting to show real signs of age.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,794
Reaction score
8,998
Location
Hendersonville, NC
The exceptions shouldn't mislead, they should inspire., they show what's possible and it breaks the stereotype that "when I get a certain age than, I'm too old to do something" How many people do we already see come into this group asking if they are too old for martial arts. They already have that mentality of age defining what they can and cannot do before they even turn 40. Genetics for many people are unpredictable, it may be what screws you up or it may not be.

For me, I don't think I've ever done hard sparring. I don't think I've ever gone beyond an intermediate sparring level and that's only because hard sparring is damaging to the body in ways that may be permanent. It's no different than someone doing hard training for a sport, only to damage themselves and then be useless for actual game time. This is even more so with "fighting systems." So If I can't do hard sparring at 80 then nothing has changed. Besides at 80 I'm pretty sure intermediate level sparring for an 80 year old me is not at the same level the 40 year old me.
That last sentence is rather the point. I agree we can gain inspiration from exceptional people. And we can work to NOT accept that we will degrade and lose abilities. But we still have to accept that age degrades to an extent. Old guys will always have disadvantage compared to comparable young guys, unless they are far more skilled. Nothing wrong with that - it's just something to know, something to take into account as we age.
 
OP
Martial D

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,394
Reaction score
1,140
While I can't argue with the side convo(yes we are mostly a bunch of older buggers around here aren't we?), I'm just going to bring it back around by again reminding people that Xu Xiaodong and Wei Lei are pretty much the same age. It really wasn't a young guy vs old guy thing.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
11,367
Reaction score
4,129
You can't determine from that that its possible for all people of that age to do the same .
I like to think I fall into the remarkable category, but I might just be deluding myself, its what middle aged men are prone to do. I am the fittest 50 odd year old I know and I know a good few, but I can't just take pride in that as its to a large part genetic,and that's just luck
Do you workout?
Do you stay active?
Do you try to stay healthy?
Do you do exercises that helps mobility?
Do you do exercises that help build strength?
Do you do exercises that helps to keep your cardio strong?

If you do those things then it's not luck. A lot of what screws people up isn't genetics. It's bad health usually due to diet and lack of exercise. That's a medical fact not my personal belief.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,506
Location
Manchester UK
Do you workout?
Do you stay active?
Do you try to stay healthy?
Do you do exercises that helps mobility?
Do you do exercises that help build strength?
Do you do exercises that helps to keep your cardio strong?

If you do those things then it's not luck. A lot of what screws people up isn't genetics. It's bad health usually due to diet and lack of exercise. That's a medical fact not my personal belief.
all that's true,but then there are plenty of 58 yo that do all that and can't do what I can do, I'm on something o a mission to see how fit I can be at 60
, starting at a very low base, I've gotten fitter every year for the last five years, I can't keep doing that, its an impossibllity, i have certain genetic advantages over most my age, I have a tendency to be thin, low body fat , I eat excessive amounts to keep my weight up,

I've never been ill in my life, poorly a few times, but never a night in hospital, other than a major car,crash I was in when I was 15, so I've gotten through 58 years with out a,single,disease or opperation I've still got my appendix and tonsils and my wisdom teeth, I've never broken a bone despite spending my early years falling off motorbikes a lot, all my joints apart from my big toe on my right foot work like a swiss watch,no heart condition no bowl disorder, its like they took me out of the box yesterday. If I hadn't gone bald and got a good few wrinkles I could be 25.

that is not a common condition for a 58 yo. And that's got every thing to do with my dads genetics inheritance
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
11,367
Reaction score
4,129
My joints are worse than average for my age, sometimes by a fair amount.
What types of exercises do you do to help build up the strengths in your joints? and do you use anything like Dit Da Jow? The Dit Da Jow helps to reduce swelling, pain and does other things to help address the issue. In my opinion it's better than over the counter medicine that treats joints. If your joint issues are due to swelling then you may want to look into that. Which reminds me. I need to see if my Sifu will be making some now that he's back on the east coast.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
11,367
Reaction score
4,129
I'm on something o a mission to see how fit I can be at 60
, starting at a very low base, I've gotten fitter every year for the last five years, I can't keep doing that, its an impossibllity
You'll be alright. After a certain age being fit takes on a different perspective. Most people think that being 60 means you are walking with a cane and it takes you 10 minutes to get across the street. If you are doing the same thing you are doing at the age of 60 then people will be looking at you as the exception.

My metabolism has greatly slowed and I've been trying to build it up. I give up on that, so now I'm going to take a different approach. If it takes longer for me to burn calories then I'm going to adjust how much I take in with the understanding that I can probably go longer than most on my calorie intake. I'll still do exercises but now I won't feel the need to eat a lot to refuel. I have to drop about 30 lbs and get rid of my membership card at the 200lb club.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,794
Reaction score
8,998
Location
Hendersonville, NC
all that's true,but then there are plenty of 58 yo that do all that and can't do what I can do, I'm on something o a mission to see how fit I can be at 60
, starting at a very low base, I've gotten fitter every year for the last five years, I can't keep doing that, its an impossibllity, i have certain genetic advantages over most my age, I have a tendency to be thin, low body fat , I eat excessive amounts to keep my weight up,

I've never been ill in my life, poorly a few times, but never a night in hospital, other than a major car,crash I was in when I was 15, so I've gotten through 58 years with out a,single,disease or opperation I've still got my appendix and tonsils and my wisdom teeth, I've never broken a bone despite spending my early years falling off motorbikes a lot, all my joints apart from my big toe on my right foot work like a swiss watch,no heart condition no bowl disorder, its like they took me out of the box yesterday. If I hadn't gone bald and got a good few wrinkles I could be 25.

that is not a common condition for a 58 yo. And that's got every thing to do with my dads genetics inheritance
I'm stealing your knees, you sunnuva...
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,794
Reaction score
8,998
Location
Hendersonville, NC
What types of exercises do you do to help build up the strengths in your joints? and do you use anything like Dit Da Jow? The Dit Da Jow helps to reduce swelling, pain and does other things to help address the issue. In my opinion it's better than over the counter medicine that treats joints. If your joint issues are due to swelling then you may want to look into that. Which reminds me. I need to see if my Sifu will be making some now that he's back on the east coast.
I've never found much joint relief from the Jow I've tried. It seemed to help with bruising and muscle ache.

I've been exercising my entire life in various forms. How much of it built joints and how much tore them down, I cannot say. What I can say is that it's mostly the same exercise my dad did, and his knees are better than mine (at 22 years older). My knees started having problems at 16, so it's not wear and tear. They've always been crappy, even though I've always been active.
 

JR 137

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
5,162
Reaction score
3,219
Location
In the dojo
The most common thing I've seen in older people who are in great shape is they get an injury that they never fully recover from. Then another. Then some sort of illness. It's like their stereotypical age catches up with them quickly. The best example...

A former boss of mine was 55. He was about 5'10 and 160 lbs. Very little body fat. Eat a meticulous diet. He was bench pressing 275 lbs, squatting god knows what, and was regularly working out with our Div I football players.

He fell on some ice and got a bad case of bursitis in his elbow. Never benched close to 275 again, no matter how much he rehabbed it. Tore a meniscus getting off of a golf cart. Had it surgically repaired and rehabbed properly. His squat weight went down significantly, as did his ability to do running stuff. Had a hernia, repaired and rehabbed it. His golf game never recovered. He tried his hardest to fully recover and get where he was beforehand every single time. This all happened in a 2 year span. He's now in decent shape at about 66. No where near what he was, even adjusted for 11 years of aging. At 55 he was genuinely keeping up with 20 year old Div 1 football players, except he wasn't getting hit like they were. At 66, he's probably able to keep up with 40 year olds easily, but certainly not the 20 year olds he was keeping up with before.

I know several guys who've had similar things happen. Not to his extreme, but close.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
11,367
Reaction score
4,129
The most common thing I've seen in older people who are in great shape is they get an injury that they never fully recover from. Then another. Then some sort of illness. It's like their stereotypical age catches up with them quickly. The best example...

A former boss of mine was 55. He was about 5'10 and 160 lbs. Very little body fat. Eat a meticulous diet. He was bench pressing 275 lbs, squatting god knows what, and was regularly working out with our Div I football players.

He fell on some ice and got a bad case of bursitis in his elbow. Never benched close to 275 again, no matter how much he rehabbed it. Tore a meniscus getting off of a golf cart. Had it surgically repaired and rehabbed properly. His squat weight went down significantly, as did his ability to do running stuff. Had a hernia, repaired and rehabbed it. His golf game never recovered. He tried his hardest to fully recover and get where he was beforehand every single time. This all happened in a 2 year span. He's now in decent shape at about 66. No where near what he was, even adjusted for 11 years of aging. At 55 he was genuinely keeping up with 20 year old Div 1 football players, except he wasn't getting hit like they were. At 66, he's probably able to keep up with 40 year olds easily, but certainly not the 20 year olds he was keeping up with before.

I know several guys who've had similar things happen. Not to his extreme, but close.
I think as people get older they should do specific exercises to address those parts of the body that we rarely really condition. Even as youth we rarely do any type of exercises that promote joint health and bone health. We are usually more focused on muscles, being strong, or being tone. Very few people pay any attention to how those muscles connect to our body or even know that those ligaments and tendons need care beyond just working out muscles. Modern medicine is coming around to understanding which is good, but I think i'll take a while before people start the exercise craze for it. Right now the companies market pills and medicine for joint health but that's not going to address the issue. It'll be like taking vitamins without exercise.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
11,367
Reaction score
4,129
I've never found much joint relief from the Jow I've tried. It seemed to help with bruising and muscle ache.

I've been exercising my entire life in various forms. How much of it built joints and how much tore them down, I cannot say. What I can say is that it's mostly the same exercise my dad did, and his knees are better than mine (at 22 years older). My knees started having problems at 16, so it's not wear and tear. They've always been crappy, even though I've always been active.
This is the doctor that fixed my knee problems without surgery Gentle Awakening GA
It may be worth a visit. He used to do Tai Chi with out school and I was complaining about my knees. Well actually I was sitting down in pain dealing with my knees and he asked me if I mind if he took a look at my knees. This is guy that I speak of when I tell that story about my knees. Nice guy and everyone that I know who has gone to see him has been happy. He help one of the students to get his cholesterol under control. Now that person doesn't have to take the prescription medicine anymore.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,794
Reaction score
8,998
Location
Hendersonville, NC
This is the doctor that fixed my knee problems without surgery Gentle Awakening GA
It may be worth a visit. He used to do Tai Chi with out school and I was complaining about my knees. Well actually I was sitting down in pain dealing with my knees and he asked me if I mind if he took a look at my knees. This is guy that I speak of when I tell that story about my knees. Nice guy and everyone that I know who has gone to see him has been happy. He help one of the students to get his cholesterol under control. Now that person doesn't have to take the prescription medicine anymore.
Maybe worth a visit the next time I'll be out that way. Thanks.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,506
Location
Manchester UK
The most common thing I've seen in older people who are in great shape is they get an injury that they never fully recover from. Then another. Then some sort of illness. It's like their stereotypical age catches up with them quickly. The best example...

A former boss of mine was 55. He was about 5'10 and 160 lbs. Very little body fat. Eat a meticulous diet. He was bench pressing 275 lbs, squatting god knows what, and was regularly working out with our Div I football players.

He fell on some ice and got a bad case of bursitis in his elbow. Never benched close to 275 again, no matter how much he rehabbed it. Tore a meniscus getting off of a golf cart. Had it surgically repaired and rehabbed properly. His squat weight went down significantly, as did his ability to do running stuff. Had a hernia, repaired and rehabbed it. His golf game never recovered. He tried his hardest to fully recover and get where he was beforehand every single time. This all happened in a 2 year span. He's now in decent shape at about 66. No where near what he was, even adjusted for 11 years of aging. At 55 he was genuinely keeping up with 20 year old Div 1 football players, except he wasn't getting hit like they were. At 66, he's probably able to keep up with 40 year olds easily, but certainly not the 20 year olds he was keeping up with before.

I know several guys who've had similar things happen. Not to his extreme, but close.
that is the golden rule, don't get injured, I fell of a mountain bike ridding down a,set of steps, it was no sort of speed, but what ever I did to my wrist took months and months to heal , I'm not convinced its back now, two years later, the grip in my right hand isn't as good as my left
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,794
Reaction score
8,998
Location
Hendersonville, NC
that is the golden rule, don't get injured, I fell of a mountain bike ridding down a,set of steps, it was no sort of speed, but what ever I did to my wrist took months and months to heal , I'm not convinced its back now, two years later, the grip in my right hand isn't as good as my left
Yeah, those things we could "walk off" in our 20's, and would heal while we weren't paying attention - those things require actual attention and time to heal now.
 

JR 137

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
5,162
Reaction score
3,219
Location
In the dojo
I think as people get older they should do specific exercises to address those parts of the body that we rarely really condition. Even as youth we rarely do any type of exercises that promote joint health and bone health. We are usually more focused on muscles, being strong, or being tone. Very few people pay any attention to how those muscles connect to our body or even know that those ligaments and tendons need care beyond just working out muscles. Modern medicine is coming around to understanding which is good, but I think i'll take a while before people start the exercise craze for it. Right now the companies market pills and medicine for joint health but that's not going to address the issue. It'll be like taking vitamins without exercise.
The guy I referenced in my post is a physical therapist (PT), athletic trainer (ATC), certified strength & conditioning specialist (CSCS), and a Titleist Golf Biomechanics Specialist.

Not that I think the post meant HE needs learn about the human body though.
 
Top