Personalities in Martial Arts

[Just4Kicks]

While training I have come across many different types of people involved in martial arts, from all parts of the spectrum. This has lead me to wonder, what if a personality was unsuitable to the arts? Say if they were aggressive, arrogant, had anger issues, were predatory sexually with other students and were known to assault people etc, is it ethical to teach them to hurt, maim and kill? Or even to expose your other students to them and destroy the safe environment?

Sometimes I think people should be given a background check and personality test before training in an art, but is this to intrusive and exclusive? I've heard some horror stories of out of control martial artists.

Thoughts?

 

[Steel Tiger]

Teach such a being to be more monstrous? The ethics and morality of our society scream against it, and yet people constantly teach them. Some do so hoping they can change them through the instilling discipline, but most are guided by money and nothing more. All too often are the lofty ethical goals that many MAers cast aside in the pursuit of money.

 

[megat]

hmmm well MA is a double edge sword, it can be use for self defense but also can be use to kill or hurt. as for not teaching it to the personalities u have mention , if it can be detected then yes don't teach it, but sumtime its hard to tell.

 

[Drac]

Ya got my vote..They should also do backround checks before people get married, obtain a drivers license, buy a house or pet...

 

[CuongNhuka]

There was a gentleman at my school, before I began martial arts, who was a bit of a bully. At this time my Sensei was a student. His Sensei did his best to tolerate this man, and my sensei kept trying to get him to just kick this guy out. Students had quite because of him, after all. Sensei Terry said "no, that isn't the Cuong Nhu thing to do". When my Sensei was put in charge, this guy was still there. And my Sensei did just the same as Sensei Terry.
At a training camp my Sensei ran into, and mentioned this, to an upper rank, he said "No it is the Cuong Nhu thing to do. This is Martial Arts training, if he cannt handle it, then he needs to go."
Same applies to anyone unable to handle this. Bullies, thugs, and predators need to be out of the Dojo if they cannt handle this.

 

[Just4Kicks]

^^ Can't handle it? Sorry if I take it wrong, I can't understand your phrasing. Did you mean we need to handle these sort of people in our martial art classes so we can deal with them in the rest of our lives? If so I disagree, those sort of people should not be trusted with this knowledge and I go there to learn to defend myself against psychos, not be a victim of one.

 

[qi-tah]

While training I have come across many different types of people involved in martial arts, from all parts of the spectrum. This has lead me to wonder, what if a personality was unsuitable to the arts? Say if they were aggressive, arrogant, had anger issues, were predatory sexually with other students and were known to assault people etc, is it ethical to teach them to hurt, maim and kill? Or even to expose your other students to them and destroy the safe environment?

Sometimes I think people should be given a background check and personality test before training in an art, but is this to intrusive and exclusive? I've heard some horror stories of out of control martial artists.

Thoughts?

I'm not a teacher, but i'm thinking that the answer to yr question would be pretty much determined by what you are teaching them. There is a huge difference between teaching someone how to maim or kill an attacker, and teaching someone to maim and kill. I asked my teacher the other day about the bias in class toward counterfighting techniques and wasn't xing yi more about first strike tactics? His answer was that we needed to learn to control ourselves more before we embarked on the more aggressive stuff. I can't see that anyone in our class are psychos (i don't think!

), but i see his point... the energy contained within an art could carry you away on a tide of testosterone if you let it... and if you are a nasty pasty to begin with, the ramifications don't bear thinking about.
So i guess what i'm saying is - the more aggressive, direct arts that take a relitively short time (say a couple of years) to bare proficiency, which rely on a limited amount of techniques or techniques that can be muscled through - yeah, i'd like to see teachers be a little more careful who they teach that stuff to. More indirect, internally based arts that take a bloody long time to learn to use in a martial capacity i'd be less worried about. For instance, some of the apps contained in various forms of Taiji are truly nasty, but the time and effort needed to attain the profiency required to recognise and utilise those apps would kind of weed out the meatheads.

I hope, anyway! :asian:

 

[IcemanSK]

I've met all kinds of folks in MA. I think there are all kinds of folks in all kinds of activities. MA seems to have it's share of arogant folks. Last year, I went to a National Conference of my TKD organization. I was very pleasantly surprised that I didn't meet anyone I didn't like. In fact, our own Last Fearner is a quite a gentleman.

I was begining to think my bad experiences with MA folks were isolated situations. 6 months later, I went to a local tournament & sat next to a guy who spent hours telling me how wonderful he was. :barf:

Rude, insensitive folks are in every walk of life. Even tho MA teaches discipline & kindness, it doesn't weed out every goof ball.

 

[CuongNhuka]

^^ Can't handle it? Sorry if I take it wrong, I can't understand your phrasing. Did you mean we need to handle these sort of people in our martial art classes so we can deal with them in the rest of our lives? If so I disagree, those sort of people should not be trusted with this knowledge and I go there to learn to defend myself against psychos, not be a victim of one.

Like the story I told. If the student is immature, unruley, or a bully, kick them out. They dont need to be there. Thats what I mean.

 

[ChingChuan]

I think that you shouldn't worry too much about the backgrounds of people... I mean, when you go to high school or university, there's no one who does any background checking (at least, in the Netherlands) so you've got all kinds of people there - maybe criminals or something. But I think that, in the end, it won't really matter since everyone is there to learn something.

Also, I think that real bullies won't 'survive' too long in MA lessons - if someone really wants to kill someone, there are easier means to achieve that goal.

But if someone is bullying someone else, he should be warned and then kicked out (the same happens in schools, doesn't it? Or at least, there is some sort of policy to assure that bullies will be punished). I don't think that MA schools should be any stricter than schools - otherwise you'll just scare the 'normal' students away. I wouldn't want to join a MA school which wanted to do a background check on me - not that I have done anything wrong, but it's just because of that fact that I value my privacy really much.

 

[zDom]

But isn't martial arts about improving people?

I believe in many cases you can as an instructor select activities that will challenge them physically and, hopefully, build their character while not making them any more dangerous to other people.

Chances are they will either grow into a better person or quit.

But just to clarify, I am opposed to showing techniques that could be easily used to harm people to someone who has not yet demonstrated they have the character to be entrusted with such techniques.

 

[MartialArtHeart]

It is a difficult situation, to be sure.

When I first joined the martial arts, my goal was to learn how to fight. If I ever got into a fight at school, I wanted to whoop the dummy so badly that he'd never mess with me again. I had an agressive demeanor, was always looking for a fight, and just wanted another gun in my arsenal.

Four years later, I am a completely different person. Idiots still bug me, but the martial arts are my release. All of my senseis(that doesn't look right...) teach discipline, modesty, courtesy, integrity, self-control, and all of the other qualities which make one a true martial artist.

The martial arts changed me for life. And I believe that's what they SHOULD do; they should change us all. You wouldn't deny counseling to a person with problems, right? Well, this is a therapy in it's own right.

And I believe that if someone wanted to hurt others, they'd just do what any other stupid bakka would do: go out and buy a gun on the black market. Or a knife. Or any other instrument that is commonly used by average joes to inflict more damage on martial artists than we often have time to react to.

My teachers(that sounds right. lol) and I often discuss how stupid it is that the greatest martial artist in the world can get taken down by some gangsta kid with a gun. People like that don't bother with martial arts... not enough discipline.

If I had it my way, though, all the people who didn't have a bb attitude would stay in the beginner's classes.

 

[tshadowchaser]

aggressive, arrogant,: these people may change or they might get worse ( I sure have seen many that fit those traits holding high rank)

had anger issues: The study of the martial arts may well help this person but they may also need professional help to curb their issues

were predatory sexually with other students: NO they would never get in the school in the first place or would be kicked out and possibly reported to the police depending on ages, and other facts

were known to assault people: I have trained more than one person that I knew was a bar fighter or should I say someone who got in fights in bars. Some of these people changed some just left because they did not like the slow pace they learned at and the disicplain. Now if the person is one who constantly picks fights and hurts people because it feels good to them I might consider giving them a couple of classes to show thier stuff. I think I know enough people in the arts that would love to train with such a person :whip::btg::lfao:
I know it is a serious subject but that is about they way the person would be treated

 

[jdinca]

Ya got my vote..They should also do backround checks before people get married, obtain a drivers license, buy a house or pet...

...or reproduce.

 

[CuongNhuka]

And that makes me think of some Corny b-rated Scifi movie. Where you need a license to reproduce, and the fun adventures of some guy trying to out do the system. lol

 

[jdinca]

While training I have come across many different types of people involved in martial arts, from all parts of the spectrum. This has lead me to wonder, what if a personality was unsuitable to the arts? Say if they were aggressive, arrogant, had anger issues, were predatory sexually with other students and were known to assault people etc, is it ethical to teach them to hurt, maim and kill? Or even to expose your other students to them and destroy the safe environment?

Sometimes I think people should be given a background check and personality test before training in an art, but is this to intrusive and exclusive? I've heard some horror stories of out of control martial artists.

Thoughts?

Taking on a person with some of the attributes you've described can be a recipe for trouble. For the school, for the students, for the instructors.

That's one of the reasons many school do introductory lessons. It's just as much the school's need to know about the potential student as it is for the potential student to learn about the school. We've told perspective students that they may be better suited at another school. We've also terminated a couple of students who were overly aggressive and disruptive.

Martial Arts is, depending on the school philosophy, about making you a better person through the martial training BUT the person has to want that. Some personalities are not suited to that.

 

[Drac]

...or reproduce.

I forgot that one..