Online/DVD 'Distance' certification

Sandstorm

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Just wondering if anyone has used (or knows of someone who has used) this method of learning? I have noticed a drastic increase in these courses that offer instant instructor certification and I presume, base that certification on the premise that the owner learns from the DVDs before opening a school?

It's obviously a quick fix certificate for people, but does it hold any merit at all? Is this something that may help a student/would-be instructor to learn an art that is nowhere near their hometown? I guess if the support from the offering association is there, it could be good, right?

Or, is this just another Quick-Fix method of making/obtaining money on the part of the seller AND the buyer, who obviously intends to open a school and reap the financial rewards, as well as decieving those students who put their faith and trust in the legitimacy advertised?.

Your thoughts appreciated
 

billybybose

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My $.02 is that if your just starting out you need face to face competant instruction.A teacher in class will nip bad habits in the bud.Learning from dvd's may allow bad habits to form and then be ingrained.Even an org with good support like say video testing,online people to answer questions etc.won't see your movements for months and by then you have to go back and break bad habits rather learning correctly from the start.If there's an art you have always wanted to study and it's just not going to ever be possible where you are my advise would be take whatever you can locally.Then after getting dan rank there you will be much more knowledgable and be better able to learn your favorite art from a distance.As for opening a school from a distance learning org. thats not cool un less you have real rank from a base art then travel for face to face cert. from the dvd org.Also in my opinion all dvd orgs. are'nt created equal.A lot of the Israeli commando guys have HQ's where you go for dan or instructer training but if your talking about the ancient art of the egyption pharroh's bodyguards forget it.If some day you teach you owe it to your students and the art to be honest.Hope this helps.
 

terryl965

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I personnaly do not hold anybody in high regards if all they did was a certificationcourse though DVD's. Every single person needs to have somebody to help them continue there training.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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I do not think that you should be able to get certified through online training. You definitely need serious time with your instructor one on one or in a small group. However I think online training and all video training via DVD can be valuable if and it is a big if you are training under a qualified instructor.
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I have little respect for online certification or DVD video courses with certification or that weekend seminar and become an instructor class. These are well all about the money and have become all to frequent now a days.
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arnisador

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It's a scam. It may have some advantages over buying Count Dante's Dance of Death out of the back of a Spider-Man comic book, but you can't learn the material this way. If you could we'd have educated-by-DVD ballerinas and Olympic divers too.
 
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Sandstorm

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Thank you all for your input.
As for the Olympic Divers and Ballerinas, I guess there's a market worth researching:idea: Lol

On a serious note, I am in agreement overall, that the lesser experienced should indeed learn from a 3d instructor. I guess I am asking if there is ever a time when this type of learning is valid, and should there be certification at all?? I don't personally think there should, and the whole issue of insurance is a massive bugbear with legitimate qualifications as it is, let alone if you studied via the Net or DVD.
Personally, I've travelled to the destinations I wanted to train at, sometimes 4 hour journeys for a 2 hour session, but that's my way. I think it's much better getting 'hands on', even though I have the experience I do, I still seek correct form etc and DVDs will certainly never be able to teach that.

Thanks again for your thoughts. More comments would be more than welcome, especially from those who see benefits from such a method of learning
 

Aefibird

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I certainly don't think that there should be certification issued with dvd learning, but as a teaching tool they can be valuable when used in conjunction with regular sessions with a competent/qualified instructor.
 

searcher

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If you want to send me $250, I will get you certified. I will even throw in a free belt.


It would be the easiest money I have ever made. You won't know anything orat least won't be high quality, but you will be certified andhave your own BB.
 

David Weatherly

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It's a scam. It may have some advantages over buying Count Dante's Dance of Death out of the back of a Spider-Man comic book, but you can't learn the material this way. If you could we'd have educated-by-DVD ballerinas and Olympic divers too.


Wait! Wasn't Count Dante the only one who knew the secret death touch? You mean that's fake???
 

Xue Sheng

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I see this has already been coverd but just my 2 yuan.

Just wondering if anyone has used (or knows of someone who has used) this method of learning?

No, but I know someone who is pushing this type of program. Years ago he use to be legitimate but now it is all about the money and he said (to my wife) in Chinese (thinking that she would not tell me I guess based on the fact they are both form China :rolleyes:) with me sitting right there, he no longer cares about his students only his videos. But for $2000 not including the price of the videos you to can get a certification from him and many have done this already

I have noticed a drastic increase in these courses that offer instant instructor certification and I presume, base that certification on the premise that the owner learns from the DVDs before opening a school?

It is plain money making nothing else.

It's obviously a quick fix certificate for people, but does it hold any merit at all? Is this something that may help a student/would-be instructor to learn an art that is nowhere near their hometown? I guess if the support from the offering association is there, it could be good, right?

IMO it is not good, it is watering down the art it is attempting to teach putting out unqualified teachers that will teach students who will go on to make things worse.

Or, is this just another Quick-Fix method of making/obtaining money on the part of the seller AND the buyer, who obviously intends to open a school and reap the financial rewards, as well as decieving those students who put their faith and trust in the legitimacy advertised?.

That pretty much sums it up
 

SensibleManiac

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There is much you can learn from DVDs as a supplement to your training with an instructor, never as a replacement!
 

sparky12

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I think this would be a waste of time and money. For all of the above reasons you need an instructor. You could not become competent and the martial art would be lost as you could not teach it properly and the students you taught would change it even more.
Regards, Don
 
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Sandstorm

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If you want to send me $250, I will get you certified. I will even throw in a free belt.


It would be the easiest money I have ever made. You won't know anything orat least won't be high quality, but you will be certified andhave your own BB.


This is where the issue becomes something more. To certify someone as a BB via these means is one thing, to certify them as an 'instructor' is something else entirely IMO. I see people buy these certificate/dvd courses via ebay, to then go on and start their own club?? Ok, someone wants a Black Belt, but doesn't want to put in the hours and effort, only to show off to a select few, well, that's their undoing. To actually set up a school and teach and offer their own certifications??? There must be a way to prevent this from happening. I mean, when I approach a venue to hold a seminar or run classes/courses, the venue wants to see I am licenced, insured and recognised. Surely if my certs are not legitimate, they will be seen as such? Perhaps I'm being a little naive here.
It brings to mind two incidents that I have experienced 1st hand.

1) when I achieved my first Shodan 12 years ago, I was so honoured and proud of what I had done, how much work I had put in to obtain it. I also knew this was just the beginning. My thirst for knowledge led me all over the country to find out more about various arts etc. I encountered an advert for a guy who claimed to be a 5th dan under some Japanese master I'd not heard of. I called them up and met the instructors 'associate'. He wanted me to fork out 瞿100 for each 1 hour session. His reasoning was the 'secrets' that no other style/instructor could offer. Needless to say, I just laughed. I was training in MMA with one of the UK's premier instructors as well as my usual classes, so had plenty of people I could discuss this with. This guy is still walking through the town, canvassing, trying to recruit new blood. It riles me to think that people are being sold this BS.

2)I joined a Frestyle Kickboxing club just to fill the gaps where I wasn't training. I stayed there for 4 months, obtained my Blue Belt after passing the easiest test ever, and then found out the association behind the club was run without any form of insurance or national recognition. Literally, just 1 guy running his small group and registering them on his database etc. This all came to light when one of the guys who trained their obtained his BB and went to a legitimate' association to run his own school and they refused him.

Apologies for the length of this, it is an issue I am quite passionate about because I feel I've worked hard to achieve what I have and I see these people manipulate the uninformed.

Thanks again for your thoughts on this.
 
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Sylo

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would you hire someone to your law firm whose training came from a series of "how to be a lawyer" DVD's they ordered off tv/magazine?

Probably not right?

It may work for some things, but there are certain things you can't learn well via DVD or online.

You need a living breathing instructor, to correct you when your stance and position are round. To help you turn your hip over when you aren't.. Martial arts are "physical" activities.. therefore I feel a real live instructor is the ONLY way to learn.

However, I do believe that DVD's can be a helpful supplement to live training. I say this because I was just sitting here looking at my form via video to see it done at different angles, and to make sure I am doing the movements correctly. However, I do not feel like I could learn martial arts on my own via a dvd.

Kinda reminds me of the scene in karate kid where Mr. myagi says.

"You learn Karate from book?"

Kinda feel the same way about this.
 

MJS

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Just wondering if anyone has used (or knows of someone who has used) this method of learning? I have noticed a drastic increase in these courses that offer instant instructor certification and I presume, base that certification on the premise that the owner learns from the DVDs before opening a school?

It's obviously a quick fix certificate for people, but does it hold any merit at all? Is this something that may help a student/would-be instructor to learn an art that is nowhere near their hometown? I guess if the support from the offering association is there, it could be good, right?

Or, is this just another Quick-Fix method of making/obtaining money on the part of the seller AND the buyer, who obviously intends to open a school and reap the financial rewards, as well as decieving those students who put their faith and trust in the legitimacy advertised?.

Your thoughts appreciated

IMHO, dvds, books and tapes are good for a reference tool only. I don't understand how one can learn a technical art from a dvd, and test for it. There is no dvd in the world that will give you the same quality as a live instructor would. Especially if someone is brand new to the arts....how can they possibly watch something and mimic what they see, and hope that they're doing it right.

Is it a way to make money? Of course. Hey, I'm not against using them for a reference, as I said, but as a sole learning tool...nope.

I'd rather see someone spend the time to travel somewhere, if they wanted to train in an art that bad, train for a few days for 5-8hrs a day, tape the session, head back home and train like crazy. Is this costly? Of course, but IMO its better than trying to figure out something on your own.
 

KempoGuy06

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What would happen if they offer DVD training and certification in every thing from heart surgeon to pilot....think about it

B
 

Grenadier

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How is the certifying board going to know if you are really able to do the techniques, with the correct mechanics and fundamentals, without someone there to grade you?

Furthermore, how do you know that you're even doing the correct thing? It's one thing to try to copy a video, but it's another thing to try to see all of the subtle mechanics that are part of the workings.

I've seen many people try to learn kobudo from videos. For the most part, the learners are advanced enough to copy the obvious with decent accuracy, since they're mostly yudansha in their empty hand training, but what about the other aspects that make a big difference?

In one particular system of kobudo where flow and continual bo movement are at a premium, are the video learners really understanding the principles of the "bouncing bo movement?" Are they using the correct hand positions? Are they tensing and relaxing the correct muscles as needed? Or, are they simply point the bo in the correct location at the correct time, while ignoring all of the above?

It's one thing to put the bo in the right place (learn the sequences). That's actually the easier part when learning any kata, but what about the things besides the sequence?

Finally, and perhaps the most important thing of all, how do you know that your mechanics are sound and safe? I've seen some people using incorrect mechanics when trying to copy what they see in the videos, and these incorrect mechanics aren't good for the joints, etc. It would only take a live instructor maybe a few minutes to point out the potentially damaging mechanics, while trying to self-teach one's self isn't going to reveal these mistakes until you're feeling the pain of ligament damage, etc.

Where I *do* approve of learning from videos, though, is if someone already has received live instruction, and is simply using the videos to brush up on things. For example, someone who is a black belt in Shotokan Karate and already knows kata Kanku Dai and Jion, is learning the proper sequence for the Shitei kata Kanku Dai and Jion. In those cases, it's simply reinforcing that which one already knows, rather than trying to start from scratch.
 

Bill Mattocks

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As a newbie, I can say that my time in the dojo has helped in ways that I cannot imagine a book or DVD could.

First and foremost, when I am in the dojo, I have dedicated and set aside time in my life, undistracted, to practice karate. I will be giving it my best effort, because even though I have some level of self-discipline, there are people there with me, and they will know if I am not putting myself into it.

Working alone, at home, I could easily see myself becoming distracted, discouraged, and at the very least, stopping when I get tired, start to hurt, or there's something on TV.

Second, I know that I see what my sensei does, then I try to imitate it, and very often, I think I am doing exactly what he showed me. Only after he stops me and breaks it down and shows me up close do I realize I am not turning over my hip, for example, in a squat kick, or that I am not chambering my leg in a mae geri kick. I *think* I am, but apparently, I'm not. If I were learning off a DVD, I'd go on thinking I was doing it right, just as I had seen.

On the other hand...

I have found that some of Master Shimabuku's kata have found their way to various locations, and they are good to see, they help me understand more from the founder of my discipline. My dojo has also produced a couple of DVD's, and they give them to students, and this also helps me - but both in conjunction with what I learn in the dojo.

In defense of distance learning, though, I would say this:

As a very young man, I had a copy of one of Bruce Tegner's books on Karate. Growing up in the cornfields of central Illinois in a town of 400, it was better than nothing - and nothing was indeed the alternative at that time.

Given all I know to be true about my own nature, I much prefer being in a dojo, and I do not think I could even become proficient with my style of karate without some serious dojo time. Other's results may vary, and I am just a beginner.
 
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