Oldest Martial Art?
- Thread starter Josh
- Start date
You're never going to find a meaningful answer. You might be able to identify the earliest mention of systematic martial training, but even that's not really going to find the "oldest martial art." You can certainly identify the origins of some of today's martial arts (karate came from Okinawa-te when Funakoshi spread it to Japan; Jigoro Kano developed judo from jujitsu; and so on...), but when you try to sort out beginnings, you go in circles.
Which makes sense; martial arts were born at some point when some caveman noticed that Og was a more successful hunter and asked him for tips on clubbing. Or maybe a little later, when someone noticed that Og's clan was doing better, and tried to take their stuff, and Og found out that clubs worked on other cavemen, too... Somewhere in dawn of memory, someone started sharing what worked well with someone else. Maybe it was wrestling; maybe it was striking; maybe it was clubbing or spearing or making arrowheads... But that's when the idea of some systemized approach to martial arts began.
JBrainard
Senior Master
OK, everyone knows the story of Ta Mo. Suposedly he brought martial arts to the Shaolin Temple. But what martial art did he train in? Many believe that it was Kalari, as Ta Mo came from India. So, Kalari might be the "first" martial art, but even that is under debate. Some beleive that Pankration was imported into India and developed into Kalari.
Nevertheless, Pankration could easily be considered the "first" martial art, with Kalari VERY easily considered the first "Eastern" martial art.
Thoughts, anyone?
I have issues with that legend. To begin with -- it's just a legend. I'm not personally aware of much real support, and there WAS martial arts training (as in systemized training of soldiers) in China before the Shaolin Temple. In fact, it seems more likely to me that what would have been taught would be more of a yoga-type system than combatives, if the goal was developing the monks's strength for their religious practice. I recall reading an interesting critique of that legend, but I can't recall exactly where.
I just think that trying to identify some "original" or "first" martial art is pointless. I don't think you'll successfully trace any style back to this proto-typical origin, and I don't see what would really be gained by doing so. Rather than worry about the origin of any and all systematic martial arts training -- learn the history of your own art. Learn about other arts that are reflected in or influencing your art. But don't get bogged down in any sort of "mine is older" argument or quest. The style I train in has roots that extend thousands of years (arguably to 100 BC) -- but the modern version that I learn was systemized and synthesized and assembled in the 20th century. So -- how old is it? And, if you can answer that... What does it's age prove?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Oldest CMA in existance today Shuaijiao
http://www.answers.com/topic/shuai-jiao
http://www.answers.com/topic/shuai-jiao
Boxing and wrestling where a part of the Olympics before Pankration.
I think in a sense martial arts training has always been there, probably back to the cave man days.
As a species our survival was partially dependant on our abilities to fight, defend oursleves and hunt. Without training these skills we never would have survived.
I think in a sense martial arts training has always been there, probably back to the cave man days.
As a species our survival was partially dependant on our abilities to fight, defend oursleves and hunt. Without training these skills we never would have survived.
Last Fearner
2nd Black Belt
There you go again! Somebody is always giving credit to Og. I happen to know that Ooaf was practicing Martial Art as a kid, and that was 150 years before Og was born. Ooaf was a weakly kid who was always being picked on by the other Cave-children. His parents were worried about him so they sent him to study tablet chiseling with a famous calligrapher who also happened to be a Master of Woolly Mammoth-Do. That was the first Martial Art ever! I hope this puts that question to rest. :mst:
You are exactly right, and that is why you are having such a hard time finding a verifiable answer to your question. All of modern training which is being called a "Martial Art" is subject to interpretation and scrutiny as to if each should be called a Martial Art. While it might be impossible to uncover any reasonably unbiased and accurate history of exactly what was the first Martial Art, when and where did it begin, and who first did it, you would first have to define what exactly is the "Martial Art" in order to start you quest.
Is a system of Martial Art really only a form of combat? Does it only require that the participants know how to fight, survive in combat, or defend themselves in the street? Or is there more to it then that? Because we can certainly seek out many sources of soldiering, creation of armies, weaponry training, and even unarmed fighting. Does any fighting qualify as "Martial Art skills?" Is there any philosophy, morality, discipline, manners, or lessons of life that should be; must be included in the mix.
The question really is, what do you define as the "Martial Art?" Then, be sure that somebody else defines it differently.
What do you say should be in the ingredients of a Martial Art Curriculum - Ancient and Modern?
1. ?
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
Without this decision, you could be including playing tennis, or skipping stones on a pond as being a Martial Art. Personally, I think the inclusion of some activities as a Martial Art has become way to broad these days. Is the gang member who practices hand-to-hand combat so that he can commit crimes really studying a Martial Art? You decide! Without a clear definition, even if it is just your own personal point of view, you will not be able to trace anything back to a specific point in history. If you consider the extended roots of all forms of physical combat, then we are right back to Og's predecessor, the Late Great-Grandmaster Ooaf.
CM D.J. Eisenhart
I would tend to think that wrestling, and fist fighting where the oldest of the martial arts along with the throwing of stones and clubing.
Just because we do not have a writen history of these from the time the first men fought each other dose not mean they where not practiced and taught to one another as a means of survuval
Just because we do not have a writen history of these from the time the first men fought each other dose not mean they where not practiced and taught to one another as a means of survuval
bydand
Senior Master
Ah Grasshopper, but you are wrong. If you recall, it was found out that the great Master was found out to be a fraud that just named it Wolly Mammoth-Do because it sounded more powerful, and it was just a bunch of moves he watched a monkey excute after sitting on a fireant hill. Ooaf went on his Warrior Name Search and found a quiet old caveman selling mangos that was in reality the last Master of the, even then old art of VRF (Veloco-Raptor Fu).
All joking aside, there is probably more truth than fiction in the tounge-in-cheek replys. As long as there has been people who work and live together, they have been sharing ideas on everything to where to find water, to how to stay safe while getting it. We will never know which MA can truthfully lay claim to being the oldest. And in reality, what does it matter today, we are thousands of years and many, many generations removed from that time and place. As long as we find the art that fits us the best in terms of each individuals mental picture of what an art should acomplish in their life; would it matter if it was decades old or hundreds of centuries old?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Ahh but you are all WRONG it was Allosaurusquan:mst:
still learning
Senior Master
Hello, When the first two men appear on EARTH, and only one woman.
The art of figthing came about. (No style or NO name). But it worked.
Men have been fighting each other forever (it will never stop soon). Each Tribes learn their own fighting skills that work at that time.
Soon the techniques that work was past on and off...thru hundreds of years.....today RUNNING is a sport (not a technique?)
Men have always fought with each other....the OLDest art? Caveman style.
For today's modern world men wants to brag who has the oldest style? Ancient history, many were never written down. Today we base alot of history (proof) that was written/pictures on walls.
Times have change and what work yesterday....may not work today....One thing for sure...each of us gets a little older than before!
Ageing is a part of us..our bodies do not stay strong/healthy forever...So the art in us changes. The Oldest art? Can it be New again?
People have always combine styles too...Bruce was never the first..nor will he be the last...............Aloha
The art of figthing came about. (No style or NO name). But it worked.
Men have been fighting each other forever (it will never stop soon). Each Tribes learn their own fighting skills that work at that time.
Soon the techniques that work was past on and off...thru hundreds of years.....today RUNNING is a sport (not a technique?)
Men have always fought with each other....the OLDest art? Caveman style.
For today's modern world men wants to brag who has the oldest style? Ancient history, many were never written down. Today we base alot of history (proof) that was written/pictures on walls.
Times have change and what work yesterday....may not work today....One thing for sure...each of us gets a little older than before!
Ageing is a part of us..our bodies do not stay strong/healthy forever...So the art in us changes. The Oldest art? Can it be New again?
People have always combine styles too...Bruce was never the first..nor will he be the last...............Aloha
Sorry...
I still stand behind Og. Oaff was truly a master of Wooly Mammath-doo; the confusion is common, since he could spread fertilizer like nobody's business -- but was known to frequently omit doubled letters in his stone carving.
(Of course, some would dispute me and say that the truest original martial art comes from a tiny Korean fishing village.)
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
From an anthropological point of view the oldest fighting art is easy to pin down. The art that is represented in almost every culture in the world is wrestling/grappling. It may have evolved in different placed and now be called Pankration, Shuai Chiao, or Jujutsu, but the basic premise is the same - get a hold of 'em and make 'em stop.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
No I am sorry but Allosaurusquan was practiced by the Allosaurus during the MESOZOIC ERA :mst: I have the track ways to prove it... but of course they are secret so I cannot divulge their location :uhohh:
But seriously Steel Tiger is right it was no doubt wrestling, but who knows what it was called when it first started, possibly just survival.
still learning
Senior Master
Hello, It was so simple "A caveman could do it"!
I read somewhere, that the Africans discover the martial arts before man migrated up north. The Africans (non-american kind) fought each other for women and food. Evolution produce the first NON-chinese arts.
My history maybe a little old? .........NO roots........NO basis...just read it somewhere?
Throwing stones....could have been the first weapons ever use against man? Today it has not change much except for the size of the rocks.
PS: We sell 8oz,10oz and 12oz stones...to place an order: call 1- rock throwing. Only the best is sold! All rocks are age for temperment.
(for custom colors and shapes, add $2.00 more)
I read somewhere, that the Africans discover the martial arts before man migrated up north. The Africans (non-american kind) fought each other for women and food. Evolution produce the first NON-chinese arts.
My history maybe a little old? .........NO roots........NO basis...just read it somewhere?
Throwing stones....could have been the first weapons ever use against man? Today it has not change much except for the size of the rocks.
PS: We sell 8oz,10oz and 12oz stones...to place an order: call 1- rock throwing. Only the best is sold! All rocks are age for temperment.
(for custom colors and shapes, add $2.00 more)
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
OP
OP
Josh
Blue Belt
me too! me too!
