NYPD ramp up their war against photographers and the Constitution.

[Bob Hubbard]

The NYPD continue their War against photographers and the US Constitution.

NYPD Caught on Video Violently Shoving Photographer

New York City police continued their rampage against protesters and photographers during today's Occupy Wall Street anniversary protest, including an incident in the above video where a cop shoves a photographer to the ground. The video makes it is obvious that tensions are running high with one protester getting arrested after trying to pull a cop away from making another arrest. The photographer [...]

NYPD Continues Arresting Photogs at Occupy Wall Street Anniversary Protest

New York City police are continuing their crackdown against photographers and journalists during the Occupy Wall Street anniversary protest, arresting a photographer this morning because she did not have NYPD-issued press credentials, according to reports on Twitter. Julia Reinhart, who is also a member of the National Press Photographer Association, was wearing her NPPA identification at the time [...]

Two Photogs, One Journalist Arrested as Activists Descend Upon Wall Street for Anniversary

Unlike police in Tampa and Charlotte during the recent political conventions, New York City police made no attempt in respecting the rights of protesters and photographers during the opening night of the one-year anniversary of Occupy Wall Street. At least two photographers were arrested, including one man who was arrested last December during a protest, and a woman who appeared to have been [...]


Earlier articles highlighting the blatant disregard for civilian rights, should said civilian have a camera by the NYPD.

NYPD Arrest Man for Video Recording Them, Then Attempt to Delete Footage
He didn't erase it correctly. I'm suing the NYPD. The video shows him getting ... ...

NYPD Cop Fails at Intimidating Man from Video Recording Police Headquarters
force, an NYPD officer told a man he would be arrested for video recording. ... ...

NYPD's Times Square Shooting Highlights Lack of Adequate Police Training
while NYPD will surely argue that Miller voluntarily handed over his phone, it doesn’t really sound like ... ...

NYPD Illegally Confiscated Phone of Second Man After Times Square Shooting
because why can’t they just download the video there?” An NYPD spokesman told the Times ... ...

NYPD Violently Arrest NY Times Photog for 2nd Time Since 2004; Smash Camera into his Face Before Confiscating it
him I think he feels he's immune to being arrested because of his nypd press pass. I ... ...

NYPD Shoot Knife-Wielding Man in Times Square; Confiscate Citizen's Camera
in this case, under the NYPD’s Operation Orders , which is not as thorough as other general orders we’ve seen. UPDATE : NYPD's Times Square Shooting Highlights Lack of Adequate Police Training ... ...

NYPD Tells Videographer with Straight Face that Public Sidewalk is Private
Luke Rudkowski of We Are Change was video recording in front of the Young Men's Hebrew Association when he was confronted and threatened by a pair of New York City police officers. But Rudkowski, who was waiting to attempt to interv ... ...




And more, much much more http://www.pixiq.com/search/posts/NYPD

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mickey Osterreicher, general counsel for the National Press Photographers Association, gave the following statement:

NPPA has been receiving reports from a number of our members who are covering the OWS demonstrations in NY. We are deeply concerned and troubled by the aggressive and indiscriminate manner in which officers and command staff are allegedly treating those exercising their First Amendment rights to photograph and record matters of public concern on the streets of NY. These acts of intimidation, detention and sometimes arrest continue to occur despite Commissioner Kelly's Finest message (reminding 'members of the service of their obligations to cooperate with media representatives acting in a news-gathering capacity at the scene of police incidents'), issued last year in response to the arrests of journalists covering the events in and around Zuccotti Park, as well as specific directives in the NYPD Patrol Guide regarding the rights of "Observers at the scene of Police Incidents."
It should also be noted that whereas the Tampa and Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Departments chose to work with NPPA and other organizations in order to prevent these incidents during the recent political conventions held in those cities (where no journalists were arrested), the NYPD has declined to accept similar offers of training. While NPPA appreciates the fact that NYPD has adopted the above referenced guidelines, without proper training and appropriate disciplinary action, those directives are just pieces of paper.

​

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press is reporting that five journalists have been arrested since Saturday.


According to the New York Times, police were trying to shut down photographers.
One officer repeatedly shoved photographers with a baton and a police lieutenant warned that no more photographs should be taken. “That’s over with,” the lieutenant said.

 

[WC_lun]

Exactly who are these officers to deny photographs of a protest? Wonder who passed that order down. Not legal and not smart.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The NYPD have thousands of good officers among their ranks. Unfortunately, a small number, with the encouragement of their supervisors, are actively engaged in violating civil liberties and rights, abusing the public, and attempting to intimidate, bully and assault those who would obtain evidence of their illegal behavior. The end result will ultimately be tens of thousands of dollars worth of lawsuits, court cases and ultimately cash pay outs to these photographers and other victims of police misbehavior. Some of this is simple misinformation, misunderstanding and lack of training on the part of the officers. Some small number are just thugs who disgrace the uniform and who have no right to wear it.

Me personally? I have no desire to ever step foot in the totalitarian police state that is NYC.

 

[ballen0351]

That's crap bob I only watched the first clip because the stank bias was all I could take from that site. The police are in the middle of a crap sandwich people running up grabbing and pulling people away they are out numbered. One little thug with a camera gets too close and is told to back up and he decides to get in the officers face and yell at him and not back up. He's lucky I would have arrested his butt if it were me there. Nobody told the 12 to fifteen other "reporters" to stop filming as they ran in between the officers around the officers ect . This punk with an agenda got pushed booo hop hardly a real news story.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

1 story is a biased bs tale.

15+ is not.


Do you have any idea who the NPPA is? Let me guess, you don't care.

How about the growing number of complaints of NYPD attempting to destroy evidence? Last I heard, that was a crime.

You do understand that under absolutely NO circumstances is it legal for a cop to delete photos/videos, or order someone to delete them, right?

 

[granfire]

Exactly who are these officers to deny photographs of a protest? Wonder who passed that order down. Not legal and not smart.

Don't they know that the cameras they CAN see are the least of their problems?!

 

[Sukerkin]

:chuckles: A valid point there, Gran.

Does this all not boil down to tho' the philosophical question of whether the police can enforce the law (or public order) with methods that are not condoned by the law?

The obvious answer is, no, they can't but some think that they can. The perceived general lack of respect for the public they are supposed to be there for the benefit of is a huge problem to be overcome. Couple that with a sense of entitlement to some leeway because they do a horrible, dangerous, job that few want to do and things start to compound pretty quickly.

The really big problem that spawns from those conditions tho' is that the population begin to withdraw their tacit permission to be policed. If that reaches a certain point then your social structure is in a bad way.

So maybe it is best to educate officers in the law they are supposed to be enforcing? It befuddles me that this is not a requirement already to be honest; unless of course I have misunderstood comments made by serving officers on this board over the years? Is this even feasible mind you? Police have to learn all sorts of other things too, is expecting them to know at least the rough outline of the law too much to ask (the Law being a pretty big entity these days).

Mistakes will happen and tempers will fray, we know that and understand it too (can't speak for all there I suppose but I do have sympathy when a given officers BS tank reaches overload). It is unfair too, in a way, but officers must be seen to have consequences from their mis-steps, even when we understand how it will happen, or public confidence in the system is undermined.

Here is an example, of a much more serious breach of conduct, that has resulted in the officer losing his job but no criminal charges being brought (when perhaps they should have been) and the negative impact of that on the trust in the service as a whole:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19620627

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Public confidence in the police in the US is at an all time low. NYPD, LAPD, Chicago, DC, Miami Fl, Dallas, Austin and Houston TX, and Portland Or. PD's are not doing themselves, or the public any good with the large number of stories of abuse coming out from their areas. I really don't care if people dislike Miller's site or take. I find a number of the comments his followers make rather asinine myself. But when you have this many reports, with links to credible organizations such as the NPPA, then there IS a problem, one which the US Dept. of Justice and the FBI have taken notice of. While neither of those organizations is also without sin, Federal notice on this issue and rulings stating there is a problem are in fact, a fact.

If you are a cop, you need to understand:
Photography is NOT a Crime and you are not allowed to destroy or order destroyed photos or video, and that doing so IS a crime, which you will not get away with.
There are too many people with cameras watching you.
So do the right thing. Don't be jerks that cost you your job and your community huge wads of cash.

And photographers, don't be dicks to the cops. The few of you out there who are, make life harder for all of us, cop and photographer alike.

 

[ballen0351]

Public confidence in the police in the US is at an all time low. NYPD, LAPD, Chicago, DC, Miami Fl, Dallas, Austin and Houston TX, and Portland Or. PD's are not doing themselves, or the public any good with the large number of stories of abuse coming out from their areas. I really don't care if people dislike Miller's site or take. I find a number of the comments his followers make rather asinine myself. But when you have this many reports, with links to credible organizations such as the NPPA, then there IS a problem, one which the US Dept. of Justice and the FBI have taken notice of. While neither of those organizations is also without sin, Federal notice on this issue and rulings stating there is a problem are in fact, a fact.

If you are a cop, you need to understand:
Photography is NOT a Crime and you are not allowed to destroy or order destroyed photos or video, and that doing so IS a crime, which you will not get away with.
There are too many people with cameras watching you.
So do the right thing. Don't be jerks that cost you your job and your community huge wads of cash.

And photographers, don't be dicks to the cops. The few of you out there who are, make life harder for all of us, cop and photographer alike.

And photographers need to stay back and away from us when we are doing are jobs. If your so close I can grab your camera while I'm in the middle of arresting some on your too damn close go buy a better lens and zoom in.
I went back and read the rest of the "evidence" you posted funny thing the one poor innocent photographer that was arrested and her right to take photos violated already posted over 400 pictures so far yeah her poor rights. The story of the guy offered the deal to delegate his photos and not be arrested funny his "evidence" is no longer available on the site. The Turkish diplomat awful convenient its not the first run in with the law seems he purposely seeks out confrontations with the police.

Your proof of a NYPD war on photographers is a few hundred complaints? How many wanna be reporters do you think are in new York city? Few 100 thousand? How many reporters and bloggers from around the world were there this weekend for the occupy celebration? How many police officers work in NYC counting all the different departments maybe 8 to 10 thousand at any given time in the city? You better come up with a lot more poor innocent photographer's getting there feelings hurt before you call it a war on photographers. Until then get in line behind the war on innocent pot heads, the war on innocent speeders, the war on innocent protesters, man cops are busy with all these "wars" on innocent people I don't know how we find time to get any work done. You wanna take pictures take all you want I don't care as said before we all know there are hundreds of cameras on us everyday I don't care just stay out of my way let me do my job. Seems like now days your more interested in being the story then reporting it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

oh, sorry, you're right. I'm just blowing this out of proportion.


It's obvious you don't know who the NPPA is or represents, or consider the NY Times as a real paper. Carry on defending those brave boys in blue, who can do no wrong.


Why don't you learn about those laws and Constitution you swore an oath to protect? Might save your department a few bucks when you lose the lawsuit.

Here. Answer a few expert cop questions:

A cop ordering someone to delete a photo is giving a lawful order? True or False?
A cop can take a camera from someone and delete the contents? Lawful or not?
It's illegal to take a photo of a cop on a public street in plain view, true or false?
A reporter needs to have police issued credentials to be a real reporter. True or False?

 

[Tames D]

The NYPD continue their War against photographers and the US Constitution.

NYPD Caught on Video Violently Shoving Photographer

New York City police continued their rampage against protesters and photographers during today's Occupy Wall Street anniversary protest, including an incident in the above video where a cop shoves a photographer to the ground. The video makes it is obvious that tensions are running high with one protester getting arrested after trying to pull a cop away from making another arrest. The photographer [...]

NYPD Continues Arresting Photogs at Occupy Wall Street Anniversary Protest

New York City police are continuing their crackdown against photographers and journalists during the Occupy Wall Street anniversary protest, arresting a photographer this morning because she did not have NYPD-issued press credentials, according to reports on Twitter. Julia Reinhart, who is also a member of the National Press Photographer Association, was wearing her NPPA identification at the time [...]

Two Photogs, One Journalist Arrested as Activists Descend Upon Wall Street for Anniversary

Unlike police in Tampa and Charlotte during the recent political conventions, New York City police made no attempt in respecting the rights of protesters and photographers during the opening night of the one-year anniversary of Occupy Wall Street. At least two photographers were arrested, including one man who was arrested last December during a protest, and a woman who appeared to have been [...]


Earlier articles highlighting the blatant disregard for civilian rights, should said civilian have a camera by the NYPD.

NYPD Arrest Man for Video Recording Them, Then Attempt to Delete Footage
He didn't erase it correctly. I'm suing the NYPD. The video shows him getting ... ...

NYPD Cop Fails at Intimidating Man from Video Recording Police Headquarters
force, an NYPD officer told a man he would be arrested for video recording. ... ...

NYPD's Times Square Shooting Highlights Lack of Adequate Police Training
while NYPD will surely argue that Miller voluntarily handed over his phone, it doesn’t really sound like ... ...

NYPD Illegally Confiscated Phone of Second Man After Times Square Shooting
because why can’t they just download the video there?” An NYPD spokesman told the Times ... ...

NYPD Violently Arrest NY Times Photog for 2nd Time Since 2004; Smash Camera into his Face Before Confiscating it
him I think he feels he's immune to being arrested because of his nypd press pass. I ... ...

NYPD Shoot Knife-Wielding Man in Times Square; Confiscate Citizen's Camera
in this case, under the NYPD’s Operation Orders , which is not as thorough as other general orders we’ve seen. UPDATE : NYPD's Times Square Shooting Highlights Lack of Adequate Police Training ... ...

NYPD Tells Videographer with Straight Face that Public Sidewalk is Private
Luke Rudkowski of We Are Change was video recording in front of the Young Men's Hebrew Association when he was confronted and threatened by a pair of New York City police officers. But Rudkowski, who was waiting to attempt to interv ... ...




And more, much much more http://www.pixiq.com/search/posts/NYPD

Stupid question... Why are these cops not arrested and charged with violating the law? Are they above the law? Is that the problem?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Stupid question... Why are these cops not arrested and charged with violating the law? Are they above the law? Is that the problem?

Good question.

As this Bully with a Badge found out though, sometimes the Good Guys do win, and the Bad Cop gets over a month off without pay.

[h=2]Dallas Deputy Suspended for Arresting Motorcyclist with Head Cam[/h] The Dallas Sheriff’s deputy who arrested a motorcyclist on Memorial Day after he refused to hand over his video camera as evidence against other bikers was suspended today for more than a month without pay, which is more punishment than we normally see in these incidents. Deputy James Westbrook will serve a 38-day unpaid suspension for pulling over Chris Moore, then telling him he was going [...]

 

[ballen0351]

oh, sorry, you're right. I'm just blowing this out of proportion.

Yes you are. I know being a photographer is hard work being around half naked beautiful woman and all I can see where you might think the worlds out to get you. To say NYPD is ramping up its war on photographers is too assume 1st that NYPD as a department is actively seeking out photographers and second they are getting orders from above to do it. Fact is one case of a bad cop is one too many but that's all you have here there are 50k plus cops in NYC alone counting all the different agencies so chances of a few hundred idiot cops getting hired is real high. Its the nature of the beast just like there are bad teachers judges french fry workers ect. But if it were an NYPD wide plan to hunt down camera men there would be a lot more people arrested then a few hundred you claim. Funny thing is all these events are on tape so obviously they were recorded. Go back to the very fist clip you posted. The guy actually filming it nobody ever says a word to him he kept his distance sisnt interfere. The jerk that gets in the cops face get pushed back why because he got too close. Again if it was a war on camera men why didn't they tell the person recording to turn off his camera? Or try to delete his footage.

It's obvious you don't know who the NPPA is or represents, or consider the NY Times as a real paper. Carry on defending those brave boys in blue, who can do no wrong.

Didn't say cops do no wrong. I said on the grand scale of number of people in NYC with cameras and the number of police interactions you have not shown me a war on camera men you showed a few clips of bad cops not a department sanctioned war. Also no I have no clue about the letter group I assume its just another group of letters telling me I suck at my job well get in line.

Why don't you learn about those laws and Constitution you swore an oath to protect? Might save your department a few bucks when you lose the lawsuit.

Well considering I know of at least 4 clips on YouTube right now with my pretty face featured in them I'm pretty clear on the Constitution. In fact because of your right to photograph me when I worked undercover I had a family member follow me from court after testifying against his brother take my picture post it in facebook showing my face telling everyone I was a rat cop and deserves to be exterminated. I then had a picture of me sent to me at the station with bullet holes and a reward for my death. That's the main reason I can't do undercover work anymore. So don't lecture me on the laws.

Here. Answer a few expert cop questions:

A cop ordering someone to delete a photo is giving a lawful order? True or False?
A cop can take a camera from someone and delete the contents? Lawful or not?
It's illegal to take a photo of a cop on a public street in plain view, true or false?
A reporter needs to have police issued credentials to be a real reporter. True or False?

Here's a bit of advice take all the pictures you want but when the police are actively trying to get control of a situation and people are resisting and fighting with the police you might want to back up some give them room. When they tell you to back up don't get in his face and yell at him not to touch your camera just back up. Unless of course your more concerned with trying to be a story then reporting the story which is what most of the people you show as examples are all about. Almost every story up there had links to stories where the same poor camera man had his rights violated just a few weeks prior. Funny how that works. I don't think I've ever seen a real new crew arrested just these wanna be blog reporters

 

[granfire]

Yes you are. I know being a photographer is hard work being around half naked beautiful woman and all I can see where you might think the worlds out to get you. To say NYPD is ramping up its war on photographers is too assume 1st that NYPD as a department is actively seeking out photographers and second they are getting orders from above to do it. Fact is one case of a bad cop is one too many but that's all you have here there are 50k plus cops in NYC alone counting all the different agencies so chances of a few hundred idiot cops getting hired is real high. Its the nature of the beast just like there are bad teachers judges french fry workers ect. But if it were an NYPD wide plan to hunt down camera men there would be a lot more people arrested then a few hundred you claim. Funny thing is all these events are on tape so obviously they were recorded. Go back to the very fist clip you posted. The guy actually filming it nobody ever says a word to him he kept his distance sisnt interfere. The jerk that gets in the cops face get pushed back why because he got too close. Again if it was a war on camera men why didn't they tell the person recording to turn off his camera? Or try to delete his footage.


Didn't say cops do no wrong. I said on the grand scale of number of people in NYC with cameras and the number of police interactions you have not shown me a war on camera men you showed a few clips of bad cops not a department sanctioned war. Also no I have no clue about the letter group I assume its just another group of letters telling me I suck at my job well get in line.


Well considering I know of at least 4 clips on YouTube right now with my pretty face featured in them I'm pretty clear on the Constitution. In fact because of your right to photograph me when I worked undercover I had a family member follow me from court after testifying against his brother take my picture post it in facebook showing my face telling everyone I was a rat cop and deserves to be exterminated. I then had a picture of me sent to me at the station with bullet holes and a reward for my death. That's the main reason I can't do undercover work anymore. So don't lecture me on the laws.



Here's a bit of advice take all the pictures you want but when the police are actively trying to get control of a situation and people are resisting and fighting with the police you might want to back up some give them room. When they tell you to back up don't get in his face and yell at him not to touch your camera just back up. Unless of course your more concerned with trying to be a story then reporting the story which is what most of the people you show as examples are all about. Almost every story up there had links to stories where the same poor camera man had his rights violated just a few weeks prior. Funny how that works. I don't think I've ever seen a real new crew arrested just these wanna be blog reporters

Well, not going into the specifics, but as far as taking photos goes, you are not really part of the action, but - depending on the equipment - a good bit away. So in order to arrest one, seems like the officer needs to approach them.

But the point Bob is trying to make: It does not really matter if the person has press credentials or not, it's a Civil Right to take those pictures. So even the wannabe blogger is covered, as well as the grandmother or the dope head.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Yes you are. I know being a photographer is hard work being around half naked beautiful woman and all I can see where you might think the worlds out to get you. To say NYPD is ramping up its war on photographers is too assume 1st that NYPD as a department is actively seeking out photographers and second they are getting orders from above to do it. Fact is one case of a bad cop is one too many but that's all you have here there are 50k plus cops in NYC alone counting all the different agencies so chances of a few hundred idiot cops getting hired is real high. Its the nature of the beast just like there are bad teachers judges french fry workers ect. But if it were an NYPD wide plan to hunt down camera men there would be a lot more people arrested then a few hundred you claim. Funny thing is all these events are on tape so obviously they were recorded. Go back to the very fist clip you posted. The guy actually filming it nobody ever says a word to him he kept his distance sisnt interfere. The jerk that gets in the cops face get pushed back why because he got too close. Again if it was a war on camera men why didn't they tell the person recording to turn off his camera? Or try to delete his footage.

Look man, put the coffee and donuts down for a moment and try to pay attention to what I wrote.

Fact: There are more than 1 case.
Fact: The NYPD as a whole looks to be doing nothing to educate it's officers on photographers rights.
Fact: There are hundreds of cameras out there. They can't get them all.
Fact: A number of photographers have had their gear intentionally damaged, stolen by NYPD. Media cards 'vanish', images and video deleted, and unlawful orders issued.
Fact: You didn't answer my questions.

Didn't say cops do no wrong. I said on the grand scale of number of people in NYC with cameras and the number of police interactions you have not shown me a war on camera men you showed a few clips of bad cops not a department sanctioned war. Also no I have no clue about the letter group I assume its just another group of letters telling me I suck at my job well get in line.

Since you are one of tends of thousands of uneducated cops, allow me to try to educate you. So stop polishing your badge for a moment and pay attention Officer.

The NPPA :

NPPA is the acronym for the National Press Photographers Association, founded in 1947. The organization is based in Durham, North Carolina and its mostly made up of still photographers, television videographers, editors, and students in the journalism field. The NPPA places emphasis on photojournalism, or journalism that presents a story through the use of photographs or moving pictures. The NPPA holds annual competitions as well as several quarterly contests, seminars, and workshops designed to stimulate personal growth in its members. The NPPA utilizes a mentor program which offers its members the opportunity to establish a relationship with a veteran NPPA member and learn from them. The organization also offers a critique service, a job bank, an online discussion board, and various member benefits.

The National Press Photographers Association is dedicated to the advancement of photojournalism, its creation, editing and distribution, in all news media. NPPA encourages photojournalists to reflect high standards of quality in their professional performance and in their personal code of ethics. NPPA vigorously promotes freedom of the press in all its forms. To this end, NPPA provides continuing educational programs and fraternalism without bias, as we support and acknowledge the best the profession has to offer.
Their members include still and television photographers, editors, students and representatives of businesses that serve the photojournalism industry. As of 2003, NPPA had over 8,000 paid professional members, about 1,500 paid student members, and nearly 500 life members—bringing the total membership to just over 10,000.

http://www.nppa.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Press_Photographers_Association

As was mentioned, at least 1 NPPA member was harassed (read arrested) by NYPD, with enough interest that the organization, who has worked to aid other police departments has gotten involved in the ongoing lack of respect by the NYPD, who rejected their offer of educational aid.

Well considering I know of at least 4 clips on YouTube right now with my pretty face featured in them I'm pretty clear on the Constitution. In fact because of your right to photograph me when I worked undercover I had a family member follow me from court after testifying against his brother take my picture post it in facebook showing my face telling everyone I was a rat cop and deserves to be exterminated. I then had a picture of me sent to me at the station with bullet holes and a reward for my death. That's the main reason I can't do undercover work anymore. So don't lecture me on the laws.

Sucks you had to deal with that, but if it bothers you, try a different line of work. I hope the people who threatened you were prosecuted.

Here's a bit of advice take all the pictures you want but when the police are actively trying to get control of a situation and people are resisting and fighting with the police you might want to back up some give them room. When they tell you to back up don't get in his face and yell at him not to touch your camera just back up. Unless of course your more concerned with trying to be a story then reporting the story which is what most of the people you show as examples are all about. Almost every story up there had links to stories where the same poor camera man had his rights violated just a few weeks prior. Funny how that works. I don't think I've ever seen a real new crew arrested just these wanna be blog reporters

Maybe cops trying to 'get control of situations' should start paying more attention to the environment and stop ordering people to do the impossible then getting bent after they don't get their way 5 seconds later?

So you don't consider the NY Times legit. Got it. See, that's where they, this small town rag, not a real paper, was complaining that their photographers were getting hassled. Missed that? Great work detective.

But I get it. You're here defending these poor cops being unfairly targeted yet again, and have no interest in actually reading the links (which go on and on and on), understanding peoples inconvenient rights, or answering the simple questions I asked.

Got it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well, not going into the specifics, but as far as taking photos goes, you are not really part of the action, but - depending on the equipment - a good bit away. So in order to arrest one, seems like the officer needs to approach them.

But the point Bob is trying to make: It does not really matter if the person has press credentials or not, it's a Civil Right to take those pictures. So even the wannabe blogger is covered, as well as the grandmother or the dope head.

But the NYPD thinks only people they ok are legit. Everyone else hasn't got the right to record, and that people with their backs against a crowd who aren't moving are defying their unquestionable authority. Because an NYPD Enforcer says something, by god, you better listen to him, or else!

*barf*

Since Officer Ballen doesn't know the answers to my questions, I'll answer them for him.

A cop ordering someone to delete a photo is giving a lawful order? True or False?
FALSE. A cop can not legally order you to delete anything. You are under no legal requirement to obey, his order is Unlawful.

A cop can take a camera from someone and delete the contents? Lawful or not?
FALSE. A cop can not steal your camera and delete evidence. That's illegal.

It's illegal to take a photo of a cop on a public street in plain view, true or false?
FALSE. If it's in plain view, in the US, you may photograph. You do not need permission. The exception is certain military or security areas.

A reporter needs to have police issued credentials to be a real reporter. True or False?
FALSE. Police may issue credentials, however you do not need them to be a reporter. Access to restricted areas may require the issued creds however.

I hope he'll pass on his new knowledge to others in his department, lest one of them be frightened by a lens and needlessly pull resources away from real crimes.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mickey H. Osterreicher, general counsel for the National Press Photographers Association, has written a letter to New York City Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne about the arrest last night of New York Times photographer Robert Stolarik, who says he had his camera confiscated and was roughed up by police while documenting the arrest of a teenager in the Bronx.
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/artic...otojournalist-group-urges-nypd-do-right-thing

Dear Deputy Commissioner Browne,

As general counsel for the National Press Photographers Association (NPPA) I strongly object to the arrest and treatment of NY Times photographer, Robert Stolarik on Saturday night (8/4/12) while he was on assignment in the Bronx.

I met with you and Commissioner Kelly along with other news media representatives on November 23, 2011 after journalists were interfered with and arrested while covering matters of public concern in and around Zuccotti Park. After that meeting the Commissioner properly saw fit to issue a FINEST message “to remind members of the service of their obligations to cooperate with media representatives acting in a news-gathering capacity at the scene of police incidents.”

As you are well aware the very next day there were more incidents where NYPD officers once again interfered with photographers covering a tragic Thanksgiving Day fire in Brooklyn and during the Macy’s Day Parade in Manhattan.

In another recorded incident which was widely viewed on the Internet Mr. Stolarik was interfered with in December 2011 during an OWS protest and the department took disciplinary action against one of the officers involved after a letter of complaint was sent you your office by news media representatives.

Over the ensuing months there have been other incidents, which I have emailed you about in accordance with your request for such information. Unfortunately you have failed to respond to those messages.

It is clear from the reports of the most recent incident involving Mr. Stolarik that proper training and supervision of NYPD officers regarding the rights of the press and public to record and photograph on city streets is sorely inadequate and that the directives and spirit of the FINEST message are being disregarded.

It is a travesty that officers still do not understand or respect that “the public’s access to information regarding the official business of the Department is of critical importance to effective City government.” In the Commissioner’s own words – “because the public receives much of this access through the news media, members of the service must ensure that Department procedures which provide for cooperation and assistance with press personnel and which allow press personnel to access the scenes of incidents are carefully followed.” “Supervisors may restrict access to an incident scene only in those exceptional circumstances where it is absolutely necessary for law enforcement or public order purposes” (emphasis added).

In this most recent case officers not only allegedly interfered with Mr. Stolarik by illegally ordering him to stop taking pictures but after he identified himself as a journalist an officer is said to have “grabbed his camera and ‘slammed’ it into his face.” Mr. Stolarik’s reasonable request for that officer’s badge number resulted in other officers allegedly seizing his cameras while dragging him to the ground. He claims he was kicked in the back and was treated at the hospital for “scrapes and bruises to his arms, legs and face.”

If the FINEST message and other Patrol Guide directives are to mean more than just hollow words we respectfully request that the department commence a full and impartial investigation of those members of the service who allegedly violated department policy by unreasonably interfering with media access and by intentionally preventing or obstructing the “photographing or videotaping of news in public places.” We would also ask that the apparent use of excessive force and the seizure of Mr. Stolarik’s camera equipment also be investigated and that disciplinary action be taken where it is deemed to be appropriate. In the meantime Mr. Stolarik’s equipment and credentials must be returned immediately. We believe that the seizure and alleged destruction of his equipment not only violates his First, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights but may be considered a form of prior restraint and a violation of the Privacy Protection Act of 1980, specifically enacted to protect against the search and seizure of a journalist’s work product.

As previously stated, NPPA stands ready to work with your department to help develop more effective training and supervision in order to avoid similar situations. Thank you for your attention in this matter.

I look forward to your reply.

Very truly yours,

Mickey H. Osterreicher

If the NYPD is not actively educating it's officers, and incidents continue to happen, and officers involved are not being reprimanded, then the NYPD is by default encouraging this 'war'. If they are not enforcing their own directives for peaceful interaction, then they are encouraging further lawless behavior on the part of their Officers. Such behavior continues to downward trend of not trusting or respecting police, which will ultimately end badly.

 

[ballen0351]

Well, not going into the specifics, but as far as taking photos goes, you are not really part of the action, but - depending on the equipment - a good bit away. So in order to arrest one, seems like the officer needs to approach them.

http://youtu.be/M420M2_mOp8
Looked to me like the camera man was approaching them not the other way around

But the point Bob is trying to make: It does not really matter if the person has press credentials or not, it's a Civil Right to take those pictures. So even the wannabe blogger is covered, as well as the grandmother or the dope head.

I dont disagree with you or bob Im only saying to claim NYPD is on a war is wrong. Are there some bad or uneducated police officers yes without a doubt. So are bad cops violating the laws yep. Is it an NYPD plot against a photographer I highly doubt it. There are millions of photos taken everyday in NYC its the tourist capital of the world so there are millions of cameras so I really dont see NYPD going around just smashing cameras