training for nukite/kwonsu

[clfsean]

Working with a makiwara is not banging your fist into something hard and solid...

there is give in a good makiwara...most are either made by wrapping rope or leather around wood, usually with some sort of padding...traditionally it was straw...but my sensei recommends a neoprene mouse pad and folding it in half and wrapping the rope or leather around that...some people don't use padding, but i'm not that extreme...

Ok... if a piece of wood driven into the ground or bolted to a wall isn't considered hard & solid, what is??

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Oh, most definitely...I admit i've never had an attractive young coed walk into my room and say...."Hi, I just heard you doing some conditioning...thought i'd stop in and listen"


however, they tend to get suspicious when they see a big, tall and pale (hey...do you know how hard it is to get a good tan in northern minnesota...) guy sitting there....

Simple. Grow a pencil thin mustache and do the Raoul Julia thing from "The Addams Family."

evidently the old man thought his life was in danger and the altercation was over very shortly and ended with the other guy losing his upper lip...with the old man ripping it off....

Obviously, my info here is third hand...and it does have the aura of an urban legend about it...

but...you never know...

First alarm bell: Marines love to tell stories of people ripping lips off of other people's faces. It is indeed a common threat among Marines. "I'm going to rip your lips off your face!" I first heard it in 1975 at San Diego MCRD.

It is very much an legend until verified. I wouldn't accept it. You also don't know for sure that it is "third hand". I've had two "first hand" accounts of events given me by state troopers that swore they either participated or directly witnessed certain events. These not only proved false, but also proved to be urban legends pre-dating their beginning of service dates.

How about the one of the old Chinese man who, when harassed by punks, rips a brick out of a wall with an "eagle claw", sending them running. Then there was the student of a special palm technique that practiced wadding paper by flexing his palm muscles a certain way...and one day as he was washing his brother's back the skin came off in his hands.

These aren't just urban myths...they're martial myths. They often sprout from cultures where mythology is very much alive on the streets and a big part of everyday life.

Get it on video, and then maybe...


Regards,


Steve

 

[bignick]

These aren't just urban myths...they're martial myths. They often sprout from cultures where mythology is very much alive on the streets and a big part of everyday life.

Get it on video, and then maybe...

Don't worry, I took the story with a grain...actually a huge chunk of salt...

Ok... if a piece of wood driven into the ground or bolted to a wall isn't considered hard & solid, what is??

My makiwara is neither driven into the ground or mounted to the wall...it's a block of wood with some padding and rope wrapped around...when i work i grip one end in my hand and strike with the other....there is a lot of give there....

also when the they are driven into the ground they have lots of sway...or should...

 

[clfsean]

My makiwara is neither driven into the ground or mounted to the wall...it's a block of wood with some padding and rope wrapped around...when i work i grip one end in my hand and strike with the other....there is a lot of give there....

also when the they are driven into the ground they have lots of sway...or should...

So it's just a hand held thingy...

Yes I know it needs to have sway in the ground mounting. I've got diagrams somewhere at home of how to set the hole up to do that.

My punching targets nowdays don't have that much give to them, but they still have some plus a nice thick pad on the top to protect the skin, but get the benefit of the solid (ie not hand held, not easily moved) impact.

 

[bignick]

yes...i'll use a heavy bag as well for a nice solid striking surface...

 

[Phoenix44]

I agree with Brother John, and take it a step further: not only is that kind of training damaging, but the whole purpose of the training is to damage your hands by breaking down, sclerosing, calcifying and hardening the tissues.

 

[bignick]

I agree with Brother John, and take it a step further: not only is that kind of training damaging, but the whole purpose of the training is to damage your hands by breaking down, sclerosing, calcifying and hardening the tissues.

true...but i think that the key is to do something in the right amount....i don't sit and pound on it 1000 times a day everyday. do anything to much and it'll cause damage...somethings will just cause it a lot sooner...like makiwara work.

there is a lot of body conditioning/hardening that gets done...sometimes without people realizing it...for instance, when you first started learning martial arts...and you learned blocks like low block and such...when someone would actually throw a hard attack and you blocked it hard...it probably hurt your forearms...but after awhile..it stopped hurting so much...then maybe none...your forearms became conditioned and strengthened against that kind of impact...

 

[Ippon Ken]

I really didn't want this to turn into a discussion on the application of the technique...but i have to again disagree...the human hand can take unbelievable amounts of punishment...try throwing a punch at a hard target without proper form or making an improper fist...you'll do just as much damage as a spearhadn gone bad...if your wrist is bent you could break it...ever done a knifehand break...how many boards...bricks...the most i've tried is four boards it was pretty easy...that's a lot of force on the hand...from a different angle yes...but still lot of force...although...a palm strike is very stable i must admit...

There are several ways to strengthen your fingers for nukite. The first is doing your shuto and nukite with proper form. Extending the fingers as far out as they will go, and keeping them splinted against one another. For the knifehand the fingers, thumb included, should be straight. For nukite all fingers are tight and straight too, but the thumb is tucked in. If you have access to cane or bamboo, you can make a bamboo bundle, by getting a bunch of cane together in a bundle, and tying off the ends with strong rope. Next you place it in a container that is rooted to the ground. You practice your nukite by thrusting it straight in and out of the bamboo bundle.

The advanced tech is something out of a Run-Run Shaw flick, but it is a real training device. Get a five gallon bucket and fill it with coarse sand. Practice thrusting your spearhand in and out of the sand until this becomes really easy and your fingers don't bend. Next move up to something bigger, like corn. Using corn actually toughens your tendons/hands and softens your skin. When you can do this with ease, then move on to the gravel bucket. That's as high as you need to go. No need for giant jagged stones or whatnot.

If you can get access to Okinawan chi-ishi or Chinese single-end concrete weights, or to earthen jars filled with sand, you can strengthen your fingers and hands using these old school tools.

The most important modern tool you can use to strengthen your fist and openhand strikes is the heavybag. When you practice your knifehand on a heavybag you will have little problem. However, the nukite is different. In order to keep from jamming your fingers you need to learn to make other hand forms like Matsumura's Nukite, and the Pitchfork hand. That comes later.

Don't listen to what those other guys are saying. If you practice anything in moderation and the smart way it won't cause you any damage. In fact it'll make your hands stronger than you ever thought possible. Just be smart and moderate with your training, and after a couple of years of proper training your hand techs will surpass your TKD kicking acumen . Remeber extend your fingers to the sky and train good Qigong when you do forms. That is the most overlooked aspect of modern karate training. Hope I helped. Later...