Nothing Special

[Xue Sheng]

I remembered this from a book I read a while back.

the book is "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" by Shunryu Suzuki

Nothing Special “if you continue this simple practice every day, you will obtain some wonderful power. Before you attain it, it is something wonderful, but after you attain it, it is nothing special”

He is speaking of the Zen practice of zazen but I feel it can also be said of martial arts as well.

We train and we train to get a form correct or get an application perfect (or as close to perfect as possible) and while we are training it is amazing the things that you learn along the way and when you finally achieve your goal it is absolutely wonderful. But then it is really nothing special is it? It is no less wonderful but it is just a step on the path and ultimately is another tool in the toolbox. And from there we move on to the next challenge.

Just wondering what others thought about this?

 

[grydth]

I guess I see things differently.

Even with the first Tai Chi form I ever learned, I am still revisiting areas and learning how to do things better. Sometimes I see the possibility for a different practical application.

Recently I enjoyed slowly working through one teacher's suggestions for changes to that form (prior thread topic). Other times a new book makes me look at things a new way - or confirms why I see them the way I do.

No false modesty here, but I've never felt close to perfection.... so it may be that, despite years of work, I am still a beginner at heart. If so, good. I never want to look at the art as just "a tool".

 

[Xue Sheng]

I guess I see things differently.

Even with the first Tai Chi form I ever learned, I am still revisiting areas and learning how to do things better. Sometimes I see the possibility for a different practical application.

Recently I enjoyed slowly working through one teacher's suggestions for changes to that form (prior thread topic). Other times a new book makes me look at things a new way - or confirms why I see them the way I do.

No false modesty here, but I've never felt close to perfection.... so it may be that, despite years of work, I am still a beginner at heart. If so, good. I never want to look at the art as just "a tool".

I never said it was or I was perfect and I never said I did not revisit training anything. And I think of myself as a beginner as well. I never said I did not enjoy training the things I have learned over and over or in different ways. And if one does Taiji they are constantly doing the forms over and over again and I never said the art was a tool either.

And I am not sure but I think I should probably resent the false modesty comment, but I am not sure if it was meant as a dig or not.

So I guess I do not understand you response.

EDIT: I forgot to add this part that may explain better what I am saying.

I am saying that we all train and train to achieve something and it is wonderful when it is achieved but in reality it is really nothing special. It is nothing that makes us better than anyone else, it is nothing that anyone else could not have achieved if they too put in the work. It is something to be proud of but not something to be arrogant about.

Maybe I was not clear originally, if so my apologies

 

[grydth]

You defend against nonexistent attacks and parry against a "dig" not made.

The post is the way I see things, not any accusation of what you are or are not saying.

I mean, if you want a fight, I'll happily give you one.... but that's not where I was going...... or we can ignore each other...... or we can have rational discourse........ Choose your weapon.

 

[still learning]

Hello, The way I understand it is.... When you learn something new, it is special because you never new it before.....

But after your learn it.....it is nothing new/ special anymore...it has become a part of you.

Life is grow up and learning new things...as the new things become a part of you...it is no longer a special.

Like eating something you never tasted before...this new food is really special....than you eat it every day...it becomes nothing new or special.

Have you tried? Sashima (raw fish)? It is still special because of the prices..but nothing new..................Aloha

 

[charyuop]

In Italy we have a saying which is "Neighboor's lawn is always more green than yours". People always look at other people possessions or skills and envy them without thinking about what you have or what you can do.

In Martial Art it is the same. You go to class and you see your Sifu/Sensei doing things that leave you speachless and make him appear the most powerful and incredible person in the world. The fact is that when you achieve the skill to do the same technique (even tho not as good as the teacher does) you realize that you've enriched your knowledge, but in the end your are the same man/woman you were before and not a superman/wonder woman.

This is what I understand reading that Zen piece. But I also think that this is true up to a certain point. I can't say for sure because I am not there yet, and maybe I will never be, but when you reach a certain level in Martial Art the Zen "principle" kinda loses its meaning. After you already learnt alot about the Art and you face a new skill to be learnt in it you don't take it anymore as something that will make you become more powerful, but you are already aware that you will remain the same person and that once you learn that new skill you just have one more piece to put into your knowledge book.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[kidswarrior]

EDIT: I forgot to add this part that may explain better what I am saying.

I am saying that we all train and train to achieve something and it is wonderful when it is achieved but in reality it is really nothing special. It is nothing that makes us better than anyone else, it is nothing that anyone else could not have achieved if they too put in the work. It is something to be proud of but not something to be arrogant about.

For what it's worth, I agree with you. I read the same book some time ago, but didn't incorporate it as well, I guess. But as an example of the point you're making: just saw an old friend, and he was impressed when he asked, eyes shining, So you have a black belt? I answered (somewhat warily), Yes. I always want to throw in the qualifiers to make it real: No, my hands are not 'registered' as deadly weapons (who started that idiocy, anyway?), I don't beat people up who get in my way in the supermarket parking lot, and I haven't killed anybody with a deadly 'karate chop' (what does traditional karate usually call that kind of knife hand strike, anyway?). In other words, it's not what he thinks. The belts just mean I didn't quit.

But I do need to remember it is an accomplishment, a milestone to be proud of; yet not a stopping place, not the end of the journey.

As an analogy, before my first book was published (as before my first BB promotion), it loomed out there larger than life. Now looking back, it seems not that big a deal. But then I remind myself that not everyone has done it. Many more could...but don't start, or quit too soon. So, I try to keep any accomplishments in perspective, but not belittle them, either. Hard for me to keep this balance, depending on the day.

Peace. ~kw

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Agreed. Being a martial artist is no more special than being a painter, or a fisher, or a musician. Its something we do because we enjoy. Enjoying something does not make us better than other people, it just makes us people.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I think this is a fundamental expression of why we all practice martial arts. In the beginning we all marvelled at the new knowledge we were acquiring. We could see in our teachers and those we admired a level of attainment we aspired to. In time we began to realise that there was more going on than just the acquisition of skills and recognition of such. The art was becoming more.

Then somewhere along the line we realise that what we want is for the art to be so much a part of us that it does not stand out. The acquired skills become like an arm or leg, something that is a part of us.

The art is no longer something that is marvelled at as an unknown and fascinating thing, but something familiar with great depths that need to be explored. No longer apart but still needing understanding.

 

[exile]

somewhere along the line we realise that what we want is for the art to be so much a part of us that it does not stand out. The acquired skills become like an arm or leg, something that is a part of us.

This has the ring of real truth, and it reminds me of something I read long, long, long ago in an column in Skiing magazine. The author recalls how after years of struggling in inadequate, low, leather ski boots (that alone tells you how old the article is!) he finally decides to get himself a pair of `Screamin' Yellow Zonkers', as the early adolescents of the time called them—thigh-high Nordica Bananas, the Ferrari/Lambourgini/Maserati of the mid-1970s ski boot world. He describes how when he first bought them, he reverently took them out of the box and just stared at them for around a quarter of an hour wordlessly; the first time he used them on the hill, he had to be almost forcibly persuaded to take them off at the end of the day. But after the last ski trip of the season, many weekends later, he says something like, `I tossed them casually into the back of the basement closet; by that time, they were just things that I wore when I went skiing'.

Technical mastery is just like that, I think. What starts out as this mystery we desire to master becomes a simple set of internal reflexes and immediate, transparent knowledge, like tying your shoe. But the next skill to be mastered, the one we don't yet have, has the same mystery and glamour, and we can't rest till we've made it our own...

When we didn't `own' the skill, when it was external to us, it seemed worth giving anything to acquire; once we acquire it, it's just part of us, like our skin or hands. That's just the way we are, I suppose.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You defend against nonexistent attacks and parry against a "dig" not made.

The post is the way I see things, not any accusation of what you are or are not saying.

I mean, if you want a fight, I'll happily give you one.... but that's not where I was going...... or we can ignore each other...... or we can have rational discourse........ Choose your weapon.

I also said

"maybe I was not clear originally, if so my apologies"

as well as

"And I am not sure but I think I should probably resent the false modesty comment, but I am not sure if it was meant as a dig or not. "

And

"So I guess I do not understand you response. "

I was Not defending or parrying at all actually

Then somewhere along the line we realise that what we want is for the art to be so much a part of us that it does not stand out. The acquired skills become like an arm or leg, something that is a part of us.

That is how I see it but written much better than I wrote it.

Technical mastery is just like that, I think. What starts out as this mystery we desire to master becomes a simple set of internal reflexes and immediate, transparent knowledge, like tying your shoe. But the next skill to be mastered, the one we don't yet have, has the same mystery and glamour, and we can't rest till we've made it our own...



When we didn't `own' the skill, when it was external to us, it seemed worth giving anything to acquire; once we acquire it, it's just part of us, like our skin or hands. That's just the way we are, I suppose.

Agreed

 

[Steel Tiger]

Technical mastery is just like that, I think. What starts out as this mystery we desire to master becomes a simple set of internal reflexes and immediate, transparent knowledge, like tying your shoe. But the next skill to be mastered, the one we don't yet have, has the same mystery and glamour, and we can't rest till we've made it our own...

When we didn't `own' the skill, when it was external to us, it seemed worth giving anything to acquire; once we acquire it, it's just part of us, like our skin or hands. That's just the way we are, I suppose.

I see we are in harmonious agreement. I am pleased.

 

[exile]

I see we are in harmonious agreement. I am pleased.

Likewise, ST!

 

[grydth]

I also said

"maybe I was not clear originally, if so my apologies"

as well as

"And I am not sure but I think I should probably resent the false modesty comment, but I am not sure if it was meant as a dig or not. "

And

"So I guess I do not understand you response. "

I was Not defending or parrying at all actually


Yes, I had noticed the markedly different tenor in the original and the edit.... but had mistaken it for a rethinking, a softening in position.... and not as a ploy designed so as to be able to say both everything and nothing. What I am seeing was old to me by my second year of law school - and that was well over a quarter century ago. Kindly add me to your ignore list and I shall reciprocate.

 

[Carol]

Moderator Note:

Attention, all users: Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Thank you,

- Carol Kaur -
- MT Moderator -

 

[Rich Parsons]

I remembered this from a book I read a while back.

the book is "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" by Shunryu Suzuki



He is speaking of the Zen practice of zazen but I feel it can also be said of martial arts as well.

We train and we train to get a form correct or get an application perfect (or as close to perfect as possible) and while we are training it is amazing the things that you learn along the way and when you finally achieve your goal it is absolutely wonderful. But then it is really nothing special is it? It is no less wonderful but it is just a step on the path and ultimately is another tool in the toolbox. And from there we move on to the next challenge.

Just wondering what others thought about this?

I like the writings of Shunryu Suzuki.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I also said

"maybe I was not clear originally, if so my apologies"

as well as

"And I am not sure but I think I should probably resent the false modesty comment, but I am not sure if it was meant as a dig or not. "

And

"So I guess I do not understand you response. "

I was Not defending or parrying at all actually


Yes, I had noticed the markedly different tenor in the original and the edit.... but had mistaken it for a rethinking, a softening in position.... and not as a ploy designed so as to be able to say both everything and nothing. What I am seeing was old to me by my second year of law school - and that was well over a quarter century ago. Kindly add me to your ignore list and I shall reciprocate.

Actually this part was in the original post

"And I am not sure but I think I should probably resent the false modesty comment, but I am not sure if it was meant as a dig or not. "

"So I guess I do not understand you response. "

and the edit was actually seconds after the original post.

But not to worry I doubt we will run into each other much anymore.