A Way Of Life

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,672
Reaction score
4,536
Location
Michigan
In response to a recent thread about whether or not martial arts is about 'fighting', I wanted to take this basic question in a slightly different direction.

Of course martial arts training is 'about fighting'. Most students are taught now to hit, block, avoid being hit, kick, and so on. Creative violence, in other words. So yes, martial arts is about fighting in the practical and realistic sense.

However, some forms of martial arts are, or can be, more than that.

I'm not talking about training that involves peace studies, or non-violent conflict resolution, or situational awareness, or risk detection and avoidance, although all of those could also fall under the umbrella of martial arts studies, depending on the school and the discipline.

“In Japan, a number of time-honored everyday activities (such as making tea, arranging flowers, and writing) have traditionally been deeply examined by their proponents. Students study how to make tea, perform martial arts, or write with a brush in the most skillful way possible to express themselves with maximum efficiency and minimum strain. Through this efficient, adroit, and creative performance, they arrive at art. But if they continue to delve even more deeply into their art, they discover principles that are truly universal, principles relating to life itself. Then, the art of brush writing becomes shodo—the “Way of the brush”—while the art of arranging flowers is elevated to the status of kado—the “Way of flowers.” Through these Ways or Do forms, the Japanese have sought to realize the Way of living itself. They have approached the universal through the particular.”

- H.E. Davey

I would add that karatedo is or can be the same as kado, shodo, and other budo in general. "Principles relating to life itself," as the author states.

It is not Zen, although I have heard it described that way. According to Wikipedia, Zen is described as:

"Zen emphasizes rigorous self-control, meditation-practice, insight into Buddha-nature, and the personal expression of this insight in daily life, especially for the benefit of others.[3][4] As such, it de-emphasizes mere knowledge of sutras and doctrine[5][6] and favors direct understanding through zazen and interaction with an accomplished teacher.[7]"

Zen - Wikipedia

However, Zen can be involved in the art as well.

Consider this news story from the Japan Times:

Canadian martial artist finds the way to tea of tranquility | The Japan Times

Canadian martial artist finds the way to tea of tranquility
Randy Channell turns Kyoto shop into stage for interaction, venue for traditional moves
BY KRIS KOSAKA

SPECIAL TO THE JAPAN TIMES

"Coincidentally, his neighbor’s wife was a teacher of tea, chanoyu, and Channell impulsively decided to try. “On my first lesson, there were so many similarities between the way of tea and the way of the martial arts I was doing; a lot of the movements, the postures, the Zen philosophy. There were many connecting points that made it instantly interesting to me.”''​

"“We have a saying in tea: ‘wa, kei, sei, jaku‘ — harmony, respect, purity and tranquility. These are the goals we strive for in chanoyu.”''​

I can recommend this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Way...r=8-1&keywords=The+Japanese+Way+of+the+Artist

The Japanese Way of the Artist: Living the Japanese Arts & Ways, Brush Meditation, The Japanese Way of the Flower Paperback – May 29, 2015
by H. E. Davey

One of the reviews:

Journal of Asian Martial Arts on Living the Japanese Arts & Ways

"Living the Japanese Arts and Ways serves as a reminder to seasoned martial artists of what originally led them to study a particular 'way' in the first place, and of its importance in their daily lives."

Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Volume 12, Number 3, 2003

Would you like an example of how I embrace the 'do' of karate-do?

On the door to our dojo is a sign that says "Leave your shoes with your attitude at the door."

I consider that as an important life-lesson, not just an admonition that is important for martial arts training.

Yes, that may seem simplistic, but once you start looking for signposts, you see them everywhere.

I welcome discussion on this topic.

Yes, I still train in order to block, kick, hit, and avoid being hit.

But I do other stuff too.

And I am master of nothing - I am a student. No special knowledge.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,065
Reaction score
5,987
I think when you train hard and often enough you begin to see connections in life to what you do. I think this is just a normal side effect or additional benefit to honest training. Football players often relate life to football, baseball players often relate life to baseball, people who dance see relate life to dancing, and so on. When a person train hard in something, that training becomes who they are and they start to see similarities to training and life. The begin to see the principles of what they train outside of the activity that they train in. People who don't train hard or haven't trained in football often don't see or relate to life in terms of football. I have never played football and I can't see football in everyday life beyond teamwork, strategy, and fitness. But I train hard in martial arts and in doing so I have a better understanding of human instincts, natural reactions, body language, aggression, intimidation, health, medicine, body mechanics, emotions, healing, nerves and tons of other things. Many of these things are lessons learned from training with the focus of me physically being able to fight. When a person gets bruises and small injuries then they become more familiar with healing the body. When a person does kata, they become more aware of balance and what is needed for it. These things aren't learned if the person is just going through the motion. Learning to sense changes in balance helps me to be more aware of the small changes in life that play a big role in how the whole operates. Fighting someone else helps me to learn about the balance in other people. These are lessons that I learn through the "journey of hard training" and not something that I originally set out to learn.

I think it's this connection through training that often drives some spouses, friends, girlfriends, and boyfriends crazy. I could go to the fitness gym for 5 hours none stop and my wife would be happy, but let me workout for 2 hours in Martial Arts, or get caught typing a message in Martial Talk and it's like I committed a crime. They see a connection with life that they do not have or understand, and sometimes they want the person to have that similar connection with the person. The only problem is that when a person trains hard in an activity, it mainly builds connections with oneself and improves the understanding of their own life.

Unfortunately some people try to shortcut the process of deeper meaning by making it all mental, peaceful, and void of any aggression. I see much in life as Yinyang. "yinyang as a process of harmonization ensuring a constant, dynamic balance of all things." Source:
yinyang.jpg

Everything in life tries to maintain a balance. Martial Arts is not only violence nor only peace. It is both. Where you find one the other will will exist. For example, those who only train for self-defense often find peace as benefit. Those who only train for peace may find violence, in the form of being a victim of a criminal act. Train honestly in your Martial Art and you'll get injuries, but the other side is that you'll be healthier overall. Train hard physically and you'll soon discover that Martial Arts has quite a bit of mental work involved. The harder the physical training is, the more mental focus is needed to push through and to understand what is being trained.

Leave your shoes with your attitude at the door.
This would be another example of how hard training teaches lessons. Training with attitude reduces the efficiency and effectiveness of the training. At the school we always remind each other not to let our Egos dictate our training so we try to leave our egos outside of the class and focus on training only.
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
If you go to Japan and tell any sensei you want to learn budo to fight or hurt people they will turn you away.
Having lived in Japan and visited dojos before and spoke to teachers none pursuit budo so they can fight. I think the idea of taking budo to fight is a very Western approach as most take up budo as a hobby, to make themselves stronger. The concept make oneself stronger may fit the idea closest to self defense by Western standards but it also includes physical and mental well-being.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,065
Reaction score
5,987
If you go to Japan and tell any sensei you want to learn budo to fight or hurt people they will turn you away.
To be honest I don't know of any gyms in the U.S. that would teach a student to fight if their goal was to go out and attack and hurt people. Usually when people say they want to learn how to fight, the instructor will ask why do they want to learn how to fight so that they can get better details on what they mean by "learn to fight." and in what context.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,118
Reaction score
4,565
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
I taught Taiji to a group of old people in their 60. For each Taiji move, I taught them the application. One guy asked me, "Do you expect us to use Taiji to fight in our age?" I said, "Without understanding fighting, your Taiji will have no guideline to follow."

For example, if you want to use Taiji "double pulling" to pull,

- Your leading hand has to face upward with tiger mouth facing to your opponent.
- Your back hand has to face downward also with tiger mouth facing to your opponent.
- The distance between your hands should be the forearm distance.
- The height of your hands should be your shoulder height.
- Both of your arms should be paralleled to the ground.

If you train Taiji for "health",

- Your both hands may face downward.
- The distance between your hands may be twice your forearm distance.
- The height of your hands may be above your head.
- You may have one hand on top of another.
- ...

If your students learn Taiji for health and don't care about fighting, they and their students may change Taiji any way they feel like. You may not be able to recognize their Taiji in the future.
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
To be honest I don't know of any gyms in the U.S. that would teach a student to fight if their goal was to go out and attack and hurt people. Usually when people say they want to learn how to fight, the instructor will ask why do they want to learn how to fight so that they can get better details on what they mean by "learn to fight." and in what context.
I will rephrase it as most students do not go in Japan to ask the teacher to teach them to fight or learn to fight the phrase which may sound fine to Western does not translate as well at least schools I have visited and teachers I have spoken with. When I was interview about learning koryu the question was why, had I said to learn to fight I would have been turned away.
 
OP
Bill Mattocks

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,672
Reaction score
4,536
Location
Michigan
I feel like I'm not getting my point across very clearly. Or no one really cares about the point I'm trying to make. Never mind.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,065
Reaction score
5,987
Thanks for the clarification. I knew that Chinese culture looked at fighting as something really negative, but I didn't know that Japanese had the same negative perception of fighting.
 

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
Staff member
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
12,995
Reaction score
10,525
Location
Maui
I feel like I'm not getting my point across very clearly. Or no one really cares about the point I'm trying to make. Never mind.

I get it. Care, too. As for what you wrote, you can leave that with both of our shoes. :)
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,065
Reaction score
5,987
I feel like I'm not getting my point across very clearly. Or no one really cares about the point I'm trying to make. Never mind.
Nope. I understand. 30 minutes of precision movement while waiting for my tea...lol.. just kidding But if this is your point. "However, some forms of martial arts are, or can be, more than that." then I think we get it. If not then yeah we missed it.
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
Thanks for the clarification. I knew that Chinese culture looked at fighting as something really negative, but I didn't know that Japanese had the same negative perception of fighting.
In my experience Chinese are more vocal on their opinions and especially Cantonese were Japanese are more reserved and choose their wording carefully in other words chinese uses words like a knife and just cuts what it can usually superfical but multiple were Japanese uses words to cut with one strike deeply. At least in my experience with woman I don't date men.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,065
Reaction score
5,987
In my experience Chinese are more vocal on their opinions and especially Cantonese were Japanese are more reserved and choose their wording carefully in other words chinese uses words like a knife and just cuts what it can usually superfical but multiple were Japanese uses words to cut with one strike deeply. At least in my experience with woman I don't date men.
Funny because I want to say something but I know I'll get in trouble later on. The phrase "uses words like a knife and just cuts what it can" pretty much sums up a lot of things for me. Not to generalize but that sounds like some women I know from the Philippines. 99 cuts of death, while I'm tending one wound, they care cutting me somewhere else with their words.lol. I dated a Japanese woman before and she didn't argue much but she would say a couple of words, enough to make a statement, and then kind of let it fester. It would always create an awkwardness that was like self-torture because the disagreement would seem as if it was never really closed.

We can see some similarities in this when looking at it from a martial arts perspective, in the context of using the sword.
 

Latest Discussions

Top