"No Outside Game," or Another Thread About Hybrid Arts

[Hazardi172]

Could you find a video (or pair of them) showing the same punch from both ranges? I'd like to see the mechanics in that.

I can't find a video, sorry.

However the VT punch relies upon the momentum of the moving body weight. This is linear at a distance, often angular at close range, sometimes partial linear. All relies on footwork and short circuits the upper body musculature

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I can't find a video, sorry.

It's not that difficult to create a video by yourself. I have created over 1,000 videos on my computer. Almost all online discussion subjects, I can reference some videos for it.

 

[Hazardi172]

It's not that difficult to create a video by yourself. I have created over 1,000 videos on my computer. Almost all online discussion subjects, I can reference some videos for it.

Ok feel free to post your video, I am sorry that I don't have

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok feel free to post your video, I am sorry that I don't have

He's not the WSL VT person. He's suggesting you could record one to show what you're talking about.

 

[wingchun100]

For some reason it struck me tonight to search for Emin Boztepe on YouTube. Now there is a guy who will make you realize you don't need to combine WC with anything else to handle business.

 

[Steve]

For some reason it struck me tonight to search for Emin Boztepe on YouTube. Now there is a guy who will make you realize you don't need to combine WC with anything else to handle business.

Lol.... you ever see him fight William cheung? They could both stand to learn grappling of some kind.

 

[Eric_H]

For some reason it struck me tonight to search for Emin Boztepe on YouTube. Now there is a guy who will make you realize you don't need to combine WC with anything else to handle business.

You're joking right? He's combined with a bunch of stuff.

 

[Juany118]

Lol.... you ever see him fight William cheung? They could both stand to learn grappling of some kind.

What was funny about that was Emin is/was a BJJ guy. It's one of the things about the video that later made me laugh. A BJJ guy charges a guy who said "no I won't fight with you but I will spar". The target is wearing traditional "slick soled" traditional slippers on a polished floor and yet you still end up doing that?

One good thing came from that maybe. It seems that the "half a grappling game" (essentially novice to intermediate stuff you I learned in Judo and the like) in TWC was a result of that encounter. All of the sources I can find regarding that is from sometime after that incident.

 

[KPM]

What was funny about that was Emin is/was a BJJ guy. It's one of the things about the video that later made me laugh. A BJJ guy charges a guy who said "no I won't fight with you but I will spar". The target is wearing traditional "slick soled" traditional slippers on a polished floor and yet you still end up doing that?

One good thing came from that maybe. It seems that the "half a grappling game" (essentially novice to intermediate stuff you I learned in Judo and the like) in TWC was a result of that encounter. All of the sources I can find regarding that is from sometime after that incident.

Actually, I think that exchange was well before BJJ was a "thing." But Emin certainly had a wrestling background at that point. I've always said that exchange between Cheung and Boztepe means nothing. No Wing Chun was actually used. Both went immediately to the ground on that slick floor and flopped around like a couple of school kids.

 

[Steve]

Actually, I think that exchange was well before BJJ was a "thing." But Emin certainly had a wrestling background at that point. I've always said that exchange between Cheung and Boztepe means nothing. No Wing Chun was actually used. Both went immediately to the ground on that slick floor and flopped around like a couple of school kids.

It's an example of how if you don't pressure test your,skills, while you may be an expert in the style, your technique won't be there when you need it,

 

[drop bear]

did he fight anybody other than william cheung?

It is the only video I can find.

 

[Dylan9d]

Actually, I think that exchange was well before BJJ was a "thing." But Emin certainly had a wrestling background at that point. I've always said that exchange between Cheung and Boztepe means nothing. No Wing Chun was actually used. Both went immediately to the ground on that slick floor and flopped around like a couple of school kids.

I always wondered why they didn't do some stand up fighting in that video.

They were both into Wing Chun at the time of the video.

Or was it exactly like I thought last time? That they didn't or rather couldn't apply their Wing Chun in a brawler type situation?

What's your take on that folks?

 

[Juany118]

.

I always wondered why they didn't do some stand up fighting in that video.

They were both into Wing Chun at the time of the video.

Or was it exactly like I thought last time? That they didn't or rather couldn't apply their Wing Chun in a brawler type situation?

What's your take on that folks?

The true story? As I understand Emin was under Ting's organization at that time and was there by his own admission to challenge Cheung. He challenged William Cheung to a "fight" before the Seminar and it was agreed to be a spar after. During the seminar Emin challenged Cheung who said "no but I'll spar after the seminar." Emin got pissy, Cheung went back to teaching his seminar, Emin then bum rushed Cheung mid talk. If you told people you were going to "challenge" someone, got rebuffed and then bum rushed them would you want the bum rush on film? At the same time I could see someone with more than a little pride like Emin clearly has (broke with his master bitterly over $$$, then his master's master Leung Ting over the same, claimed to have come out unscathed and victorious from 370 street fights, including those where the other guy had a gun) would say "well a true master should be ready for anything!"

I base this not only on things said by various people but also some logic. As far as I know that is the only video of the event that survives AND when it was first released it even had after the fact narration that amounted to "Emin beats this guy!!!" If someone was interested in releasing a true and full account we would have the whole thing. If it was to be "full and true" why would one of the first released not only be edited footage but with partisan narration?

Now maybe it's a coincidence and the person who got a hold of it did all of that editing without Emin's knowledge but was an Emin fan. I even read an interview with Emin in a magazine "back in the day" where he claimed the video was edited purposefully to make HIM look bad since it does give credence to the ambush claim itself, and it appears that he can't land a solid punch on another guy who is sliding in shoes not suited for a basketball court. I don't find Emin's rationalization very likely however.

Now admittedly maybe my job makes me a bit more sensitive to such edited videos with narration to try and paint them to be something else. Still remember one where a cop dropped rubber gloves he was trying to put on to render first aid to a suspect. The "narrator", who was using his cellphone to film a YouTube video, to go on YouTube, was describing an obvious nitrile gloves flopping to the ground was a gun being dropped.

Edit:

My conclusion is Emin did ambush Cheung. What is up for debate is whether or not the video was released with Emin "in the loop" or not. His later interview could be due to the fact that he knew it made him look at least as bad (if not worse than) Cheung to those who know martial arts. It could also be him doing spin control upon hindsight finally kicking in and letting him no just how bad that video looks all around.

That said one take away from the video we can all learn from. Terrain is everything and wear footware appropriate to it if their may be a fight.

 

[wingchun100]

You're joking right? He's combined with a bunch of stuff.

Not in the video I watched. He was doing strictly Wing Chun. He may be mixed, but he was doing nothing but WC.

 

[Juany118]

Not in the video I watched. He was doing strictly Wing Chun. He may be mixed, but he was doing nothing but WC.

I'm not a fan of the guy but I have to agree with you. Now there are times you can see other influences at times but the core is always WC from what I have seen.

This may however bring us back to a debate we had before around these parts. When WC stop being WC?

 

[Hazardi172]

What was funny about that was Emin is/was a BJJ guy. It's one of the things about the video that later made me laugh. A BJJ guy charges a guy who said "no I won't fight with you but I will spar"

I find it difficult to believe that EB was a BJJ practitioner at the time of this fight, do you have anything to support it?

 

[drop bear]

Regardless Emin could aparently "Handle buisness" So lets look away from one fight and look at his other fights.

I mean we really should work off a collection anyway.

 

[Juany118]

I find it difficult to believe that EB was a BJJ practitioner at the time of this fight, do you have anything to support it?

I made a mistake there. As was pointed out that was before it was before "BJJ" was a thing he claimed to have been a wrestler, Judoka and amateur boxer with over 300 street fights under his belt, but somehow, in a country not famous for how well it treats immigrants of color, not a single documented arrest?

An Article from "Inside Kung-fu" on him back in the 1990's stated that he studied these, and a Karate style I can't recall atm, before moving onto WC in the Leung Ting organization, under Kernspecht, then we have the now infamous 1986 incident. He then gets into a financial pissing match with Kernspecht, goes to study under Ting, then gets into a financial dispute with Ting and formed his own organization. Why do I say "this is half the problem with the guy?" It just smacks of so much ego.

 

[Juany118]

Regardless Emin could aparently "Handle buisness" So lets look away from one fight and look at his other fights.

I mean we really should work off a collection anyway.

Back in the day there was supposed to be a fight between him and Rickson Gracie, that never happened. Gracies claimed Emin punked out, Emin said he didn't that the "challenge" was initially made by Kernspecht and Ting (naming him) to make a name for their organization and then it gets all tied up in him breaking away from Ting's WT. Beyond that we have the alleged 300 street fights in one of the best policed places in Europe. He claimed to have faced people in these fights armed not only with knives but also guns. He won everyone of em. Now, I will NEVER say there aren't street fights we cops don't find out about but one guy participating in 300 street fights that he specifically stated were racially motivated and never one documented? That stretches things a bit for me.

Beyond that I know of nothing other than his amateur boxing matches, which occurred prior to him starting WC so he was a teenager then.

 

[Dylan9d]

Not in the video I watched. He was doing strictly Wing Chun. He may be mixed, but he was doing nothing but WC.

I think people are referring to the video of a "fight" between him and William Cheung. Don't know if you watched the same.