No more Training

[TerryC]

I have posted previously about continuing to practice and train with increasing knee pain....well, it continued to get worse until last week I finally went to an orthopedic surgeon and had an MRI of my knnes. I have re-torn my right meniscus, have a bone bruise in my right knee, and will need surgery once again. The Dr. told me that he can fix it one more time, but after that....absolutely no more martial arts if it involves kicking or pivoting on one leg.

I have been practicing Kempo since 1976, and it isn't going to be easy quitting. Like I said before, I had always envisioned myself still practicing daily at the age of 70 or so...I envy those who can.

 

[Drac]

Sorry to hear that..During your healing investigate the internal arts..I've read dozens articles from MA's like yourself who were told that they would never practice again, but after 6 months of Tai-Chi or some other such discipline were able to get back into it..Check it out..Heal quickly..

 

[TerryC]

Yes, I've been thinking of checking into an internal art. I will need to really be careful though as the Dr. has told me that if I damage the meniscus again after this surgery, to be prepared for quickly advancing arthritis and basically a life of pain and greatly limited lifestyle.

Apparently there are new and advanced meniscus treatments and surgeries that can be done in some cases, but getting my insurance to pay for it after I obviously didn't heed my Dr's advice would be another matter.

 

[Miles]

Good luck with whatever you end up doing TerryC. Even if you can't physically perform to the same precision as you once did, what you have gained from nearly 30 years does not go out the door with an injury. You can still use your knowledge to instruct others. I have a 2nd dan who has trained with me for nearly 10 yrs. He was in an industrial accident and is relearning to walk (this is a man who at age 40 could slide into the splits). His mind is sharp even if he can't perform techniques. This is just another step along his journey.

Miles

 

[TigerWoman]

I can relate. My MRI a couple of years ago showed a tear, small from practicing a 360 jump, backstance to backstance. But the good news was my other small tear on the other side of the same knee had healed from five years previous. I take glucosamine sulfate, MSM twice a day for 7 years now. It does help. My MRI showed hardly any cartilage, actually I have worn a divot in the bone below. My right knee is better but not by much. I can still do everything right now but I don't practice jumping. I do squats, etc. ...do it another way. I limit the amount of twisting too, as it messes up the side knee ligaments.

I don't know what you do in Kempo but you can limit yourself, train smarter and keep going. My instructor has finally realized I won't do everything a fellow student will do. But I don't think I will make it to the third dan test for a lot of reasons. Then there is teaching, you have a lot of skill and knowledge to impart to your students. Don't give that up! I also would like to do something easier on joints, learn Tai Chi but nothing like that around here! TW

 

[masherdong]

Sorry to hear about that. Heal quickly.

 

[shesulsa]

TerryC ... :asian:. I know that day's coming. Internal arts is a great opportunity for you now.

Question: Does your orthopedic surgeon specialize in sports injury surgery?

 

[CMS]

Try Brazilian Jujitsu. No kicking and much of the training is from a kneeling position. It's loads of fun too.

 

[arnisador]

Be careful, but keep looking for something that works for you. The BJJ option could be good, but there are still techniques that would be an issue...find an instructor who doesn't mind if you sit a few things out.

I hate to say it, but...there are simplified versions of Tai Chi for older folks that involve less twisting etc. that may provide you a partial but safe outlet for your interest in the martial arts.

 

[Drac]

Good luck with whatever you end up doing TerryC. Even if you can't physically perform to the same precision as you once did you can still use your knowledge to instruct others.
Miles

An excellent suggestion..Check with your local PD about geting involved with the DARE program in your community, they are usually short handed and in need of someone willing to share their experiences and knowledge with the kids..

 

[rmcpeek]

Sorry to hear that. I can relate though. My physician has told me that by the time I'm around 50, I will be "begging" for surgery for both my knees. He's informed me that I will be needing knee replacement surgery on both of mine and that I should no longer be active in any of the "physical" activites that I have grown to love throughout my life.

I'm still very active in the Martial Arts, my focus now though is on teaching and sharing with my students the knowledge that I've acquired over my 25 years in the Martial Arts. Not as much hardcore training and competition is all. I still do though, just not as often.

There's not alot you can do if you injure something like a knee. I know, I've blown both of mine away. Several times. No matter how good you take care of yourself, sometimes things happen that are beyond your control and your body wears out.

Now the decision is yours, how active do you stay? Do you change styles? Even if you change styles to something that doesn't involve as much kicking, there's always going to be risks for further injury.

I wish I had the answer to that for you and I could just say "here it is". Unfortunately, I don't. Do I dwell on the fact that I may re-injure myself further when I'm training and teaching? No. But that's me and my decision.

Ultimately, you should weigh the risks and if your love for what you do is worth it. I have come to love it so much that I continue to take the risks. Am I stupid for doing this? Many of my family members and friends would say "Yes" and have told me so. Maybe I am.

Again, my focus now is more on teaching, not competition and hardcore training, as it used to be. I haven't competed now in around 4 years. Do I miss it? YES!! I've always been a competitor and loved the challenge. However, I have come to the realization though, that I have nothing to prove to anyone or myself when it comes to my skills in the ring anymore. I know what I'm capable of, and now I try to help instill this into my students and live through their accomplishments and know that I helped them grow into that Martial Artist and person.

I do have one quote that I tell myself all the time and I heard somewhere over the years.
"Pain is just weakness leaving the body".

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i have soft tissue damage in one of my knees.......and the other one hurts intermittently. the trick is to find the things that aggravate the problem......and stop doing it!
TW's advice about the glucosamine sulfate, and chondroitin sulfate is something to take seriously......these supplements will help aid in the healing and maintainance of your knees.
i dont think there is a need to change styles. kicking is one small aspect of the great art of kempo.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I have posted previously about continuing to practice and train with increasing knee pain....well, it continued to get worse until last week I finally went to an orthopedic surgeon and had an MRI of my knnes. I have re-torn my right meniscus, have a bone bruise in my right knee, and will need surgery once again. The Dr. told me that he can fix it one more time, but after that....absolutely no more martial arts if it involves kicking or pivoting on one leg.

I have been practicing Kempo since 1976, and it isn't going to be easy quitting. Like I said before, I had always envisioned myself still practicing daily at the age of 70 or so...I envy those who can.

TerryC - I am very sorry to hear that. Any injury for someone who is used to being active, and being in control of their body, is frustruating. Having to re-adjust your approach to your art is another thing entirely, when you've spent so much of your life in trianing.

Of course, listen to your doctor. I'd want to make sure, as shesulsa mentioned, that you are going to an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in sports injuries.

Be very careful with whatever you practice after this - even Tai Chi. I twisted my knee when I was starting out with a different instructor - no kidding. I would right off the bat tell any new instructor about your knee condition - just because it's an internal martial art doesn't mean you still don't have to be careful.

Best wishes for your treatment. This is just another transition in your life with kempo, but it's still part of you, and you are still part of it.

 

[TerryC]

Thank you to all who offered sympathy and advice! About my Dr., yes he is a sports specialist, in fact in his early years of practice was the team othopedic surgeon for one of the big college football teams in Florida. He is very active in this area with seminars about preventing and caring for sports injuries in high school athletes. He did my first knee surgery some years ago, and I have total confidence in him.

I have often wondered in the suppliments would help keep my cartelege, or even help me to grow a little new...if that's possible.

As I said, I've thought of Tai Chi, however to my knowledge there are no instructors near here. I'm not sure I would be satisfied with that anyway. I need that harder workout....it just makes me feel so good! I already had to give up running about 6 years ago because of back problems, which is also why I haven't sparred for quite some time too. So doing my forms hard and fast, and working the heavy bag have been essential for my physical and mental well-being.

In fact, I woke up this morning ready for a good workout.....that's a saturday morning staple for me. When I didn't do it, it was like I was missing something.

All-in-all, I will wait until after this surgery, see how it turns out, and maybe try a little light practice at first just to see how it feels. I was going over my forms, etc., in my head last night wondering if I could modify them some to accomadate this knee problem.

 

[beauty_in_the_sai]

I knew what that was like once sir. In August of 2003, I was diagnosed with panic attacks after my heart started racing and I faint. Ofc, my mom freaked out. They told me to lay off my martial arts for two months. I was devasted because I was supposed to go for my black belt in 3 months at that time. I ended up getting my black belt on time though. \o/ I feel bad for you since you can never do it again, but I have sampled that pain.

 

[James Kovacich]

Be careful with considering a ground art because it too will place a lot of stress on your knees. Fortunately for you there are martial arts that don't use much kicks.

 

[James Kovacich]

I hate to say it, but...there are simplified versions of Tai Chi for older folks that involve less twisting etc. that may provide you a partial but safe outlet for your interest in the martial arts.

Well you said it. :uhyeah: LOL, I was thing along those lines too except I was thinking more like a Gung Fu system that focuses on the hands and like you stated an instructor that is open for him to go easy when needed.

 

[digitalronin]

sorry to hear about ur legs. Doc posted a thread recently about long the term effects of kicking, and how it does damage to the his if done improperly. The knees like the hips are another rotational point of limbs. Hopefully Doc or some one of equal knowlege will publish more material concerning such cases and ways to avoid them. The martial arts are very rewarding but it sould not cost us our health in the long run.

peace

 

[47MartialMan]

I too, am sorry to hear about your injury. Joint injuries are the worse, as most worsen on time. To continue to be a martial artist, there are upper/arm, arts. As you have mentioned, internal arts also.

But, I have met and been taught by those so up in years with many ailments, this does not seem to make them halt altogehter.

May I ask what was it that caused your injury?

 

[TerryC]

I'm not 100% sure what caused my injuries, but the Dr. suspects the pivoting on one leg while kicking....at my weight which is 250. This is the second time I've torn my right meniscus, and neither time did I actually feel the pain suddenly while doing something.

I had a pre-op consultation with the Dr. tuesday, and we talked quite extensively about what I can and cannot do in the future. This time he told me that practicing martial arts again is not out of the question......but only if I get my weight down to around 200 first. But even then he said personally he thinks I should not because if I damage my knee again it can't be fixed the third time.