Enough is Enough

BruceCalkins

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I give up trying to explain to everyone about my title and my art. If you like it great. If not too bad. I have trained for 37 years and am not going to throw it away because someone on a chat group thinks he knows mor or his style is better.
I never tryed to put my self in the light if the great masters of old by taking this title or rank. Just as I have enough respect of some of my fellow instructors to feel that I am not their equal. I do not try to be the equal of someone else only the best I can be.
Fusho-Satori-Ryu if a fine strong system and it stands on it's own merit But if you have never tried it please don't knock it. You don't know what you are talking about. As for my history.
The History of Martial Arts has been written many different ways. If you ask the Japanese they designed Karate with no ones help. If you Ask the Chinese they created it. My resurch has shown of the study of Buddha Darma from India training the monk of China and the spread was from there. An as or Shorin Ryu I have read manuscripts that claim that Shorin-Ryu was based on Chinese Kung-Fu and Shaolin Kung-Fu. The Fact that the Japanese have trouble pronouncing the "L" would make Shaolin = Shorin And Ryu is Style. Shaolin Style To Shorin Ryu...
 

clfsean

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Bodhidharma... not Buddha Darma...

Damo in China
Daruma in Japan
 

Robert Carver

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SokeCalkins said:
An as or Shorin Ryu I have read manuscripts that claim that Shorin-Ryu was based on Chinese Kung-Fu and Shaolin Kung-Fu. The Fact that the Japanese have trouble pronouncing the "L" would make Shaolin = Shorin And Ryu is Style. Shaolin Style To Shorin Ryu...
Ah, not quite. Shaolin in Mandarin means "Young Forest". Shorin means "Small Forest", "Young Forest" or "Pine Forest" (all three are pronouced shorin). The Japanese reading for the Chinese characters for Shaolin is "Shorin-ji". So "Shorin" is the Japanese pronounciation of "xxx forest" and not because they cannot pronounce an L. (I will have to tell my Shorinryu Sensei about this one!).
 

Andrew Green

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Well...

10th dan in Japanese systems tends to have a minimum time training of 50+ years.

As well as a minimum age of 70 or so...

Soke is not really a rank that can be aquired through any amount of training or creating, it has to do with a inherited position dating back to Feudal times...

And as pointed out your history is wrong...

So what do you want us to think?

This is a public forum, and it is an open forum. Making big claims to rank and title is gonna get you called on it regardless of whether you think you are deserving of them or not.

If your stuff stands on its own merit get rid of the rank and title in your profile and user name and let it. "10th dan Soke" sets off red flags for most people, and for good reason. But prove us wrong, be a "nobody" and let your words speak for you, not your rank and title.
 

Bester

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Wise man once say "One person say you a fool, fool is he. 20 people say you are fool, you should listen."

Mr. Calkins, in case you have not noticed, you have had about 20 people here say you are wrong. These people have in most cases trained for extended periods of time (say decades) in various non-related traditional arts. Several of them live in the countries whose customs and history you have repeatedly mis-stated. Many of these same individuals are well known to not agree on anything as simple as the day of the week, yet they are repeatedly in agreement that your facts are in error.

You claim certain words mean something, yet educated fact disputes that.
You claim the title of "Soke", yet it was granted to you by individuals who honestly do not have the ability to do so. In addition, your definition is in error.

You may be an excellent martial artist, but your facts in many areas are sadly in error.

One may state repeatedly that the geographic location north of the US is Mexico and that the language there is Italian. That does not make it true. The same is true of your claimed facts.

I am sorry sir, but you are no more a real Soke than I am a real Psi-Cop. This forum is an excellent place to exchange ideas. We simply wish them to be factual.
 

Akashiro Tamaya

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SokeCalkins said:
I give up trying to explain to everyone about my title and my art. If you like it great. If not too bad. I have trained for 37 years and am not going to throw it away because someone on a chat group thinks he knows mor or his style is better.
I never tryed to put my self in the light if the great masters of old by taking this title or rank. Just as I have enough respect of some of my fellow instructors to feel that I am not their equal. I do not try to be the equal of someone else only the best I can be.

Fusho-Satori-Ryu if a fine strong system and it stands on it's own merit But if you have never tried it please don't knock it. You don't know what you are talking about. As for my history.

The History of Martial Arts has been written many different ways. If you ask the Japanese they designed Karate with no ones help. If you Ask the Chinese they created it. My resurch has shown of the study of Buddha Darma from India training the monk of China and the spread was from there. An as or Shorin Ryu I have read manuscripts that claim that Shorin-Ryu was based on Chinese Kung-Fu and Shaolin Kung-Fu. The Fact that the Japanese have trouble pronouncing the "L" would make Shaolin = Shorin And Ryu is Style. Shaolin Style To Shorin Ryu...


Your style is not questioned here, its your integrity. In case you lacked the understanding of the word integrity, it means The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.

Where in the world of Hiditora's madness did you get the fact that the Japanese cannot pronouce the letter "L"

Just in case you got lost please return back to the thread dedicated to you and your art. running away or ignoring will caused you and your art more damage in your reputation.

Here's the link:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23929
 

TonyU

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Maybe that's why you don't get any repect.
First, like Andre stated, soke is not something one just titles himself and you definitley aren't old enough or been in the arts long enough.

Second, your history is incorrect. Maybe you should do some more "resurch".

Also as a Shorin Ryu practioner of only approx 20 years, I find your post based on ignorance and it's embarrassing.
 

The Kai

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An as or Shorin Ryu I have read manuscripts that claim that Shorin-Ryu was based on Chinese Kung-Fu and Shaolin Kung-Fu.

Would'nt these be the same thing. Kinda like saying that I combined Mexican cooking with Tacos and came up with a new meal...

BTW You really have'nt answered a lot of the questions.
And as a piece of advice - don't try to back up your position with facts anymore, every time you open your mouth you show more ignorance
 

Rich Parsons

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Tread moved from Meet and Greet to this forum.
Meet and Greet is designed for saying hi, and informal greetings.

Thank you

Rich Parsons
Martial Talk
Super Moderator
 

ginshun

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I am still waiting for more info on the Black Star Ninjitsu school in the Texas town that doesn't exist.
 

chinto01

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Mr.Calkins thank you for your response yet again. I have been waiting to see your next post but unfortunately you had it in the wrong forum. I agree with everyone in saying that you have brought alot of this upon yourself by your screenname and stating that you have created your own style. If you truley understood what your title meant you might not had even brought it up. I am still interested in you answering some of the questions I had for you before. These should be easy questions for a "Soke" to answer. I have been a student of shorin-ryu kara-te for almost 20 years and your reasoning for the name shorin is interesting to say the least. I think 99.9% of us would also tend to agree that kara-te has its roots in China kind of hard not to when Okinawa had done a fair amount of trading with China back then and the Chinese goverment had people living on Okinawa who were skilled in gung-fu. Anyways I will still wait for you to answer my questions. Like I have said before it does not matter to me wether you call yourself "Soke", "Hanshi", "Shibucho", or any other title you can pay for. You are the one that has to justify yourself to your students. Just remember as I have stated before that you have a great responsibility to your students now. I am still interested in the forms that you are teaching. What were they again? I would also like to see your lineage chart. Should be easy as it will all point to you right?
 

TimoS

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Robert Carver said:
The Japanese reading for the Chinese characters for Shaolin is "Shorin-ji".

To borrow your words, "ah, not quite" ;) Shorin-ji would be Shaolin temple, and Shaolin itself would be Shorin (in my very limited japanese)
 

TimoS

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Akashiro Tamaya said:
Where in the world of Hiditora's madness did you get the fact that the Japanese cannot pronouce the letter "L"

Well, at least my sensei (who is japanese) sometimes has trouble with "L". For example, I once heard him say that the next weekend he would be teaching in "ratuvia" (or something like that). I had to ask the older practitioners at our dojo that where is sensei going to be and the answer was "Latvia". Sensei speaks finnish quite fluently, after all he's been here for over 25 years, but sometimes it's a bit hard to understand what he's trying to say (then our usual response is "Hai!" :))
 

Robert Carver

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TimoS said:
To borrow your words, "ah, not quite" ;) Shorin-ji would be Shaolin temple, and Shaolin itself would be Shorin (in my very limited japanese)
Thank you for the correction! I even looked back in my reference material to make sure I had not lost my mind, but I must have been laughing about the "L" business and forgot to type the "temple" part. ;)

One thing that you might note. Shorin is not Japanese for Shaolin, but it is Japanese for "Small/Pine/Young Forest", just as "ichi" is not the Japanese translation of the English word "one". It is rather the Japanese word for the thing or concept of the number. So Shorin is not the Japanese word for the Chinese word, but for XXX forest.

At least I am not trying to say it was because I or someone could not pronounce a particular consonant!
 

TimoS

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Robert Carver said:
One thing that you might note. Shorin is not Japanese for Shaolin, but it is Japanese for "Small/Pine/Young Forest", just as "ichi" is not the Japanese translation of the English word "one". It is rather the Japanese word for the thing or concept of the number. So Shorin is not the Japanese word for the Chinese word, but for XXX forest.

Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Thanks. Hmm, maybe I'll ask my sensei about this and see what he says (that is, if I remember to bring it up when I see him tomorrow)

At least I am not trying to say it was because I or someone could not pronounce a particular consonant!

Heh :)
 

Robert Carver

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TimoS said:
Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Thanks. Hmm, maybe I'll ask my sensei about this and see what he says (that is, if I remember to bring it up when I see him tomorrow)
No problem! That's why we come to places like this is to learn something new. One other thing to keep in mind is that Shorin is likely the reading of the Chinese characters for Shaolin. However, unlike English and most other languages, Chinese & Japanese characters for Shaolin are not literally "young forest" but are characters which convey the concept of a "young forest". So Shorin would be the Japanese word for describing the concept of a young forest.

Did that make sense or did I totally confuse you? ;)
 

47MartialMan

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Factual data about Bodhidharma teaching fighting arts is not evident.

Factual data that there were "fighting monks" may not be total truth. I have read that there were so many renegades, rebels, amd the like given sanctuary there, they many were in cognito as monks. Making others believe that there were fighting monks.

Given the structure of Buddhism, why would Buddhist monks desire to fight?
 

47MartialMan

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Andrew Green said:
Well...

10th dan in Japanese systems tends to have a minimum time training of 50+ years..As well as a minimum age of 70 or so...
Yes, in accordance with that/Japan's standard. But does he state that he teaches and relates to Japanese standards? Per in his title does he says he is a Japanese 10th Dan/Soke-or 10thDan Soke from Japan...whatever....?


Andrew Green said:
Soke is not really a rank that can be aquired through any amount of training or creating, it has to do with a inherited position dating back to Feudal times....
It is bestowed upon whom from whom? Is it a term that cannot be use in these times?


Andrew Green said:
This is a public forum, and it is an open forum. Making big claims to rank and title is gonna get you called on it regardless of whether you think you are deserving of them or not..
I have to agree upon this. Upon doing this, anywhere he goes, he will be questioned.

Andrew Green said:
If your stuff stands on its own merit get rid of the rank and title in your profile and user name and let it. "10th dan Soke" sets off red flags for most people, and for good reason. But prove us wrong, be a "nobody" and let your words speak for you, not your rank and title.
I have to agree upon this-per merit. (The same with all of these people whom claim to be Shaolin Monks...or Shaolin Kung Fu-why use the name-shaolin and not stand on merit alone) This is why I have no desire to lay claim to ranking. But others will state their ranking, be it a 1st, 2nd. 3rd,....whatever. Why should anyone state any rank? Why should there be rank in the first place?
 

47MartialMan

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Robert Carver said:
Ah, not quite. Shaolin in Mandarin means "Young Forest". Shorin means "Small Forest", "Young Forest" or "Pine Forest" (all three are pronouced shorin). The Japanese reading for the Chinese characters for Shaolin is "Shorin-ji". So "Shorin" is the Japanese pronounciation of "xxx forest" and not because they cannot pronounce an L. (I will have to tell my Shorinryu Sensei about this one!).
So, with all of these "Forests", they do not share a common or pivotal point.
You say tomatoe-I say tomato......
A rose by any other name......

What about Ch'en verse Zen?

Ko Fu verses Kung Fu?
 

47MartialMan

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Bester said:
Wise man once say "One person say you a fool, fool is he. 20 people say you are fool, you should listen.".
I guess that depends on where those 20 have origins. Pro-life-pro choice,,,,Theology/Atheism...

Bester said:
Mr. Calkins, in case you have not noticed, you have had about 20 people here say you are wrong. These people have in most cases trained for extended periods of time (say decades) in various non-related traditional arts. Several of them live in the countries whose customs and history you have repeatedly mis-stated. Many of these same individuals are well known to not agree on anything as simple as the day of the week, yet they are repeatedly in agreement that your facts are in error..
20 people? Any non-Japanese martial artists think so?

Bester said:
You claim certain words mean something, yet educated fact disputes that. ..
If I don't live in England, I cant speak English? One word can't mean two diferrent things? Can a word be butchered to take on a whole new meaning? Is there such a thing as slang? Are slang words correct words or cannot be used?

Bester said:
You claim the title of "Soke", yet it was granted to you by individuals who honestly do not have the ability to do so. In addition, your definition is in error..
If individuals around him, be it separate from his own creation, his surrounding peers, believe so, then he believes so.

Bester said:
You may be an excellent martial artist, but your facts in many areas are sadly in error..
I have to agree.

Bester said:
One may state repeatedly that the geographic location north of the US is Mexico and that the language there is Italian. That does not make it true. The same is true of your claimed facts...
This is interesting.

Bester said:
I am sorry sir, but you are no more a real Soke than I am a real Psi-Cop. This forum is an excellent place to exchange ideas. We simply wish them to be factual.
Everyone has opinions.
My opinion, I am not concerned with him being a Soke, 10th Dan, as much as he does. he may not realize it is not the rank that make him who he is or his abilities. For sure, IMHO, I wouldn't have gone as far to obtain such a high rank. I have been the martial arts from over 3 decades and I still dont considermysekf as a master, grandmaster, or etc. I deal with many people every day whom "toot their own horns". Some, after seeing them in action (not just the subject of martial arts), I find out in person that they (some) have not what they claim in such ability or otherwise. I am not concerned with the total ranking issue. Years experience is what counts, IMHO. (Don't go off on a tangent and state that it is years of experiencing BC. How can one judge what is B.C., without going and working out with the dude). HOWEVER-I am not gullable enough to call him Soke, or take for granted that he is allowed this title. I will call him a martial artist and will remain polite. Hoping that he may have something less controversal to say or post his opinion on another subject.

Mr Calkins-A little advice-take the "5th" and post general experiences not related to rank or issues that may seemingly be scrutinized by others. Post why you like teaching, confrontational experiences, something that you had learned the hard way about, what are some goals, dealings with injuries or any injury acquired, other things that you had studied that will aid your martial art (First Aid, CPR, Tae Bo-:erg:...). And find, at least one teacher, whom has any lineage that will further your teaching and give better charecter to your many years of work and add much merit. It maybe better to learn from a unlown without rank, or acknowledgement of, than to be in league with people of past whom have questionable merit.
 
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