Ninjustu acceptance in the Martail Arts World

perceive

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Hello.

The answer to your question is both yes and no. Allow me to explain :)
There are various organizations still teaching actual ninjutsu. They are Genbukan, bujinka and Jinenkan, as well as various organizations that split off under leadership of an experienced practicioner. Chris' organization is one of those.
It is a very interesting discipline, but it takes a long time to get good at it. And contrary to what hollywood wants you to believe, it is mainly a lot of hard training things that can appear boring. Basics usually are that way.

Between those organizations, there is very little bad blood. There is some politics, but we all all respect each other. The key is that we are all practicing arts that were ultimately passed down through Takamatsu Toshi tsugu. Those are the only lineages still sruviving today for which we have reason to believe they are real.

Now, there is also a lot of animosity towards various groups like Kumori ryu ninjutsu because they see a couple of ninja movies, combine some karate, judo and perhaps some aikido or 1 or 2 years in a legit organization, and then they form their own organization, running around in the forest in dark suits, throwing shuriken etc.

We really don't like them. They grab an image that makes them look cool and leech it without caring about accuracy, or the fact that they make our art look ridiculous. It has gotten to the point where most people don't say what it is they practice to outsiders because we want to avoid coming across as a bunch of hollywood idiots.
That explains a lot, at the very least it is a gives me an understanding of some of the things that influence badly. It always surprises me that people don't expect hard work and most of it to do with basics. A cynical attitude from when I was in the army called a lot of it "******** baffles brains" even though there was actual purpose to a lot of it. Well, hopefully after my visit things will become clearer (as they normally always are when you get to see something for real, rather than just in an abstract informational capacity) and we'll see where my journey takes me from there!
 
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K

Kumori Ryu Ninja

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I am not a teacher from now and until I receive the title from a recognized Ninjutsu organization.
I do intend on directing and keeping my site and group open but there will be changes made...
I.E. Kumori Ryu Ninjustu will be an Official "Study Group"

Id like to Edit this but i cant... Im not a teacher but a I will share!!
We are a Study Group so that we may take in all that we learn... and grow with the knowledge given to us!

Thanks
 

Aiki Lee

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This change of pace for you is quite refreshing. I hope things go well for you on your path to mastery.
 

Chris Parker

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Hi Jon,

Don't know if you've taken me off "Ignore" yet, but in case you have (and that was intended above as a form of apology), I'm going to offer some advice that may help you be seen as genuine in your venture.

First off, drop the whole "Kumori Ryu" thing entirely. It's not a Ryu. If it's a study group, then it's an extension of the Dojo you are attending, not it's own seperate thing. Talk to your new instructor about having it officially recognised, without that there isn't even a study group there, just a bunch of people getting to together to train (whether in legit movement or not).

To give you an idea, a number of my guys get together to train a few times a week, working on what I've given them during class. But as there is no official endorsement from me in their training, it is not a study group, just a couple of students training together. If you are claiming it as an Official Study Group, the question will be who has given the official recognition to it?

Next, my advice would be to pull down the website, or at the very least change it to reflect the new situation. Remove all the references to yourself as "Sensei", let your guys know that their rank is now null and void (as you had no authority to test them), and anything else that gives the impression of you teaching. Learn first, teach later.

You still claim that you are part of the Bujinkan (under a new instructor), as well as Toshindo. The rules of the Bujinkan actually prohibit that, so I'd be upfront with your new instructor, and follow their advice. If your Toshindo experience is Hayes' DVDs, remove reference to Toshindo. If it is with an instructor, you will need to choose between Toshindo and the Bujinkan.

Essentially, what you have said is, by and large, fine and good (a few things leap out at me, but I'm not going into that here...), but frankly this would be need to be seen in action. I'll be checking back to your website regularly to see how you're going on that.
 

ronin7411

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You guys can PM Kumori this as well I also encouraged him to keep up with his studies into Budo Taijutsu (yes a Koga Ryu practitioner encouraging someone to study with the Bujinkan scary ain't it) since that is his root style and what he is basing all of his techniques on as well.
 
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K

Kumori Ryu Ninja

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Hi Jon,

Don't know if you've taken me off "Ignore" yet, but in case you have (and that was intended above as a form of apology), I'm going to offer some advice that may help you be seen as genuine in your venture.

First off, drop the whole "Kumori Ryu" thing entirely. It's not a Ryu. If it's a study group, then it's an extension of the Dojo you are attending, not it's own seperate thing. Talk to your new instructor about having it officially recognised, without that there isn't even a study group there, just a bunch of people getting to together to train (whether in legit movement or not).

To give you an idea, a number of my guys get together to train a few times a week, working on what I've given them during class. But as there is no official endorsement from me in their training, it is not a study group, just a couple of students training together. If you are claiming it as an Official Study Group, the question will be who has given the official recognition to it?

Next, my advice would be to pull down the website, or at the very least change it to reflect the new situation. Remove all the references to yourself as "Sensei", let your guys know that their rank is now null and void (as you had no authority to test them), and anything else that gives the impression of you teaching. Learn first, teach later.

You still claim that you are part of the Bujinkan (under a new instructor), as well as Toshindo. The rules of the Bujinkan actually prohibit that, so I'd be upfront with your new instructor, and follow their advice. If your Toshindo experience is Hayes' DVDs, remove reference to Toshindo. If it is with an instructor, you will need to choose between Toshindo and the Bujinkan.

Essentially, what you have said is, by and large, fine and good (a few things leap out at me, but I'm not going into that here...), but frankly this would be need to be seen in action. I'll be checking back to your website regularly to see how you're going on that.

Chris, I took you off of ignore so I could see what you say... lol

I have no desire to change my group, I have no desire to drop my web page.. Its not to make you mad... Its because my group and I want to continue learning... We appreciate your input, but we desire to work hard and learn... And not to be an *** but, We view people that tell us to quit as inspiration and motivation to succeed!

We love training... We need no endorsement. We want no endorsement... We are gonna do our thing, cause this is America!!!

Thank you for your opinion...
 

Bruno@MT

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We are gonna do our thing, cause this is America!!!

Exactly.
So... why the obsession with Japanese trappings and titles like Ro-nin :)
Doesn't sound very patriotic to me, now does it? :)

Or perhaps it is a homage to hollywood and the awful 80's ninja movies?
 

Chris Parker

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My suggestions were not to get you to quit, they were to give you some credibility.

To put it bluntly, if you use the Kumori Ryu name, you will have no credibility.

If it is a Study Group, it needs to be under the direction of an instructor, I'm assuming here that that would be Mr Garner. And that would make your group a representative of his school. If it's not representative of his school, it's not a Study Group. Using the Kumori name removes it from being recognised as credible.

Working hard and learning are great, and highly encouraged. But you are not putting yourself across as actually doing so, you are seeming as if you have put together the letter on the previous page as lip service, but are now showing no indication that you are going to do much of what you said. There have been questions of your sincerity based on the letter only, and this is actually indication of that.

In terms of needing no endorsement, that's not actually true. You need to be endorsed by your teacher in order for it to be an official Study Group, hence my saying that the question you will be asked is under who's authority are you running a Study Group.

Same thing with the ranking and testing you have done so far (for those under you, I'm refering to here), there is no authority other than your own that has given that ranking, and you are far from a Sensei by any definition of the term.

Really, I'm not telling you to stop altogether. I'm saying keep going with the study group, but make sure it is actually what you say it is. And for that to be credible (and legit) my previous suggestions would need to be followed. Otherwise you are simply still coming across as another disingenuous individual who likes thinking of themselves as a teacher without any of the time, skills, qualifications, or similar that go with that.

You have two choices here. Do what you say and gain some credibility (which includes all my previous suggestions), or don't, and realise that you are still in just as bad a position as were before the letter.
 
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K

Kumori Ryu Ninja

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My suggestions were not to get you to quit, they were to give you some credibility.

To put it bluntly, if you use the Kumori Ryu name, you will have no credibility.

If it is a Study Group, it needs to be under the direction of an instructor, I'm assuming here that that would be Mr Garner. And that would make your group a representative of his school. If it's not representative of his school, it's not a Study Group. Using the Kumori name removes it from being recognised as credible.

Working hard and learning are great, and highly encouraged. But you are not putting yourself across as actually doing so, you are seeming as if you have put together the letter on the previous page as lip service, but are now showing no indication that you are going to do much of what you said. There have been questions of your sincerity based on the letter only, and this is actually indication of that.

In terms of needing no endorsement, that's not actually true. You need to be endorsed by your teacher in order for it to be an official Study Group, hence my saying that the question you will be asked is under who's authority are you running a Study Group.

Same thing with the ranking and testing you have done so far (for those under you, I'm refering to here), there is no authority other than your own that has given that ranking, and you are far from a Sensei by any definition of the term.

Really, I'm not telling you to stop altogether. I'm saying keep going with the study group, but make sure it is actually what you say it is. And for that to be credible (and legit) my previous suggestions would need to be followed. Otherwise you are simply still coming across as another disingenuous individual who likes thinking of themselves as a teacher without any of the time, skills, qualifications, or similar that go with that.

You have two choices here. Do what you say and gain some credibility (which includes all my previous suggestions), or don't, and realise that you are still in just as bad a position as were before the letter.

We want no endorsement. Mr. garner is not interested in endorsing us.. Im sure of that... Im not in need of credibility... People think paper makes them a true practitioner, Ive seen people with cirtificates that can not teach let alone run a group or dojo...

Im not looking for any blessings. My group is in no need of recognition... I posted my letter to give you the full story of me as many have asked for and I wanted to grant there wish... I also wanted to clear the air about my image, however I see it will probably do no good as people here assume the worst... I have been most honest with you...

After a lot of discussion with my fellow ryu members... We are on the same page with our plans... We are directors.. We want to simply help point people in a good direction!

After this, I am not going to pay much attention to those wanting to question or mock our group, Until I came here for a place to connect no one knew about us, now you all know.

We have had our site blow up since I came here... And that is great... We love you guys for showing us that people can sit at their computer and go on and on and on about us!!!

Thanks so much for your time and energy...
 
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Bruno@MT

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We want no endorsement. Mr. garner is not interested in endorsing us.. Im sure of that... Im not in need of credibility... People think paper makes them a true practitioner, Ive seen people with cirtificates that can not teach let alone run a group or dojo...

Im not looking for any blessings. My group is in no need of recognition...

You are not in need of credibility? Then why does this feature on your mainpage?
The (I.M.F.) is to ensure that our studies and methods are recognized by a council of well respected Martial Artists... The I.M.F. is a great place for the Kumori Ryu to call home

Seems like you do want recognition.
And respected by whom? their other soke board pals and role players of the black scorpion society? Certainly not by any serious student of any art.

And while it is true that not everyone is qualified to teach a given subject, not having a thorough education in the subject doesn't help things either.
 

Chris Parker

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Jon, I'm going to go through everything over the last page or two in detail now. Mainly because you are not being honest, despite your words, and I want to point out to you exactly how you are coming across, and why there are the issues we have.

This is going to be rather long.

In post #109 (above) you state:

I have been most honest with you...

No, you haven't.

We'll start back with your "apology" letter.

Hey guys... Alright.. Here ya go....
Please.. lets do this civilly.. and before you read this..
Please note that I mean what I say!

Okay, you probably won't take this as "civil", but then again your take on civility seems to be "agree with me or you're being rude". That aint what civility is, though.

As for you "meaning what you say", let's see how that goes...

Dear Chris, Cryo, Bruno, Bob, the list goes on.....

Ive had to take some time off to think, and then respond. I want to apologize for my actions, by that I mean not taking the time to sit and properly write out my goals, my thoughts and my intentions. for that I am sorry!! Chris... lol

Okay, was that actually an apology? You're apologising for not writing out your goals, thoughts and intentions? Really, what should be apologised for should be your behaviour blaming and accusing everyone of things that never happened.

I have read and read and re-read everything, I want to thank all of you for putting a few things into perspective!! First, I have been to quick to blame the Bujinkan organization for the actions and words of a few, I am not referring to MT individuals here, this is due to people in the Bujinkan I know personally so do not confuse that fact, I am in no way blaming any MT poster for my departure,

First off, you didn't "leave", your account was "Under Review: Contact Admin Team". You sent a letter to Don Roley to be posted here, and the restriction on your account was lifted at the same time, so you could post it (this) here yourself.

As for "in no way blaming any MT poster for my departure", every comment you have made about the forum since you got here has indicated that you have not appreciated being corrected, and associated us with the Bujinkan (for the record, and once again, I'm not Bujinkan, and Bruno is from the Genbukan... so you missed there). Don Roley has gone on record a number of times on MAP that you have expressed to him that the reason you were so "anti-Bujinkan" was due to "your treatment on Martial Talk". So you're either being dishonest with Don, or with us.

And you seem to have nothing in perspective, by the way.

However, I did prior to moving to colorado and proir to my departure, contact several Dojo and apparently Don roleys group was one that I had contacted, I have since forgot his name and was unfamiliar with his name when members brought him to my attention in recent posts I.E. "The unholey", I did receive a statement from him, in wich he stated that I was unable to train with him due to my disclosures and actions on this forum, That is fine!!

You contacted Don in August. You have since contacted him again. That was after he saw this thread, and the other ones, and the way you conducted yourself here. Don is well known for his very high personal standards (in terms of character) for those that he let's into his training, you failed rather miserably.

I appreciate his input and his time, Now. I want it to be known, Even though Don and I have had our differences, I greatly appreciate his "wake up call" as I have called it. I have asked him to not contact me,

No, Don asked you to cease and desist after you continued to email him. You did not ask him to not contact you.

but in time I would like to open a friendly dialog and inform him that he has made me think ALOT!... I want him to know I have no aggression or animosity toward him... Im sure he will find out one way or another... I know you guys are all tight.... He seems like a nice, well informed, honest guy...

Don knows far more about these arts than you will likely ever get a chance to see, frankly. And unless you actually start doing the things I suggested, there is little to no chance of you getting a good relationship with him in the future. While Don may certainly have his faults, he is respected for his dedication and his congruency. He is about as far from a hypocrite as you can find. So if you manage to prove yourself to him, he'll allow comunication, if not, there's little hope. One thing he doesn't like, though (and it's the same with me, so you know) is false humility or forced politeness in such fashions.

There is a few things that he did state that got me thinking, after much prayer and a solid look at myself and my students, I have made a few decisions... First after reviewing the BSNS site I do see a few flaws in there approach to Ninjutsu, there is no denying that! I have removed my links to them and have had no luck in obtaining a response from them concerning my affiliation... I have also seen that there are a few others that have seen their site and also see the same discrepancies I.E. Koga affiliations, ect... I want it to be known that I am not looking to the BSNS for validation....When I had no where to find accreditation for my training I joined the I.M.F and did so because I respect Mr. Shook for his dedication to helping martial artists as well as there help in creating Rank certificates for my Dojo...

This was news to you? This was one of the first things you were told here! And it's not that there are some flaws, there is no credibility whatsoever to their claims, and nothing whatsoever to do with anything close to authentic Japanese martial arts or Ninjutsu in particular.

Now onto my Dojo... I can see how I upset a few serious practitioners with a few errors like the use of Ninjutsu, Ro-nin Rank, ect....

These are just a few major hallmarks of a system with no legitimacy. You have far more mistakes just in your understanding of the art, use of terminology, and so on. All these things add up to you not having the experience, knowledge, skill, or understanding to be a teacher to anyone in any way, shape, or form.

I want to make it known that I started out as a "study group" to continue training after my sensei had discontinued his classes, I did have one person join to learn "Naruto" ninjutsu lol, he obviously did not last long at all.. Once the replex had approached me to start a class in their facility, thats when I started to teach, I moved from a study group to a Dojo, I felt that without a curriculum the students would end up leaving or becoming uninterested in Ninjutsu,

You had minimalist training, and had a 6th Kyu (again, yours and Don's stories don't actually match... he says that when you originally contacted him you couldn't prove your rank, and he said it didn't matter at the low level you had achieved, your story has you deciding that you didn't want to bother with starting at that rank, as that means you can start to learn the way the dojo trains... which completely contradicts your post complaining about starting training with Ukemigata... but we're getting ahead of ourselves), so how could you actually come up with a curriculum? You were in no postion to teach, and a training group is not a study group. Your knowledge of terminology is out again.

I talked with friends and family and had spent much time talking and thinking about the formation of a Ryu "Tradition". Basically I talked their and my wife's ears off! I have read that Founders of Ryu state that after several days of training and meditation that divine inspiration is the Key to forming a Ryu. I felt that I HAD been inspired. That was one the reasons I formed the Kumori.

Okay, that shows a complete lack of understanding of those old stories. Every single one of those stories of Divine inspiration involves the founder with years, in a number of cases, decades of training and experience behind them. As a minimum, they tended to have Menkyo Kaiden (full mastery licences) in at least one system before they developed their own system. Putting yourself in their company smacks of the most incredible arrogance and lack of understanding again.

Also please keep in mind that I am from an area where there is very little to be found in the area of ninjutsu. Also some of the shodon under Hiken dojo, I had been training just as long as them but, our sensei did not train through the winter so that put serious blocks in our training and our advancement. So in lue of this the lead student and I continued through the winters and came back to Allen in the spring, It was like starting all over again with him. He would drink coffee and we would start with ukemigata. (FACEPALM) lol.... Once he stopped teaching all together, at the time, I had no car! This obviously posed a problem in the continuing of my LEARNING, as I had contacted a few of Hiken Dojo Shidoshi Kai holders with little luck in ever being able to connect and train...

If there is no Ninjutsu in your area, that means one thing (and it's really rather simple here...) you cannot train in Ninjutsu! You have two choices, either go somewhere where there is training available, or accept that you cannot train it.

And did you think that the reasons you weren't a Shodan (despite any time in training) is that you simply aren't skilled enough? Judging just from the pictures on your site, your kamae is completely out, and the pics of the "Ro-Nin" test are incredibly flawed as well. Perhaps the instructor was getting you to do Ukemi because that was all you could handle... or because you weren't good enough at that to do anything more advanced? Again, with you not being an instructor yourself, how can you judge why you were given a particular training method?

And your story of no car really doesn't affect anything. If you cannot get to a training location, you can't train. Deal with it. Starting your own group, and thinking you are forming a "Ryu" is not accepting reality, it's fantasy land. That's our big problem with your approach.

So after moving on, I had talked to my dojos lead student and friend about my Idea of starting a Dojo. He was not to into the idea, He was never wanting to teach however. Keep in mind his training was only inclusive of our Sensei Allan then he started making trips to Shidoshi Rick's to continue his training, Im afraid I did not have that luxury as I was working from home and had obligations on the nights that the Hiken Dojo trained... I also spoke to (well tried to speak with, but received no responses for some time) to Sensei Allen about my Intentions with my Ryu Idea, He is not very personable as it seemed to me. So thinking back to his and I's informal discussion (one day after training) about my desires to teach what I had learned from him, and thinking back to his statement "any one can teach but they can not rank bujinkan with out the proper credentials", I went forward with my Ryu idea. .. The students of the replex and my personal friends encouraged me and showed no distaste for my intentions. I went outside of the Bujinkan for rank and title..

Basically, what you were told was that you would have no authority if you started your own thing according to the Bujinkan, you were not told to look outside. That was the way you chose to see it.

To make the point, though, can you answer my questions from earlier:
What are the basis' of the Ryu?
What is the base philosophy?
What characterises Kumori Ryu as opposed to another Ryu?

I want it to be known, at the time I was not a member of any forum or any other Martial arts advise group... So to be frank, I did this NOT to boost my ego or to make up a lineage, but instead to share what I know in a fashion that was acceptable to the facility that had entrusted me with the training of their young ones and friends in ninjutsu,

You feel that you have been entrusted with the youngsters, and your responce is to create this new system with little to no experience? To my mind, that's not very responsible. There are plenty of threads around here going through the issues with such an approach, but I'm going to suggest you do a search for "The Destroyer Style".

My future Intentions... I have stepped aside from teaching to begin training again with a new Dojo.

We'll come back to this.

They are Bujinkan. (I know I know) but, I was 100% honest about my back ground and my intentions.

As you haven't been honest here (or on MAP), I have my doubts about that. If I was Don, I'd probably contact the instructor there to confirm things and give another side of things...

The Shidoshi has welcomed me to train, in fact I start tonight. My desires are to start from scratch I.E. rank-less, so that I can develop the skills that this dojo has established. I don't feel the need to take my certificates to them an state that I want to start here at 6th kyu. To be most honest when I approached my prior sensei about the finalizing of my dues he simply responded, Send a check to me... I felt that to be a little unnerving having no ability to contact him for some time and to then simply get a response of send me your money. Now, I know that its rightful to pay him and when I have the ability I feel its right to do so. However, I am now in a location where there are many good training options, which before there were very few, I also have a great car, thanks to my great friend and fellow martial artist. HES THE MAN!!!! lol... and I have a great opportunity to join a Dojo that has welcomed me, I will give them my 100%. Let it be known that I am going to them as an open minded, open hearted and title-less student... I again want to thank the Bujinkan practitioners that have shown me that its not about title, status or affiliation but instead about having the right heart the right mind and most importantly the right attitude!

The right attitude is absolutely correct. You have yet to show it.

It has taken me like 2 hours to right this as I am not the most fluent in typing... lol

SO. to recap....

I am sorry,

About what, though?

I am going to change TODAY!!

Not according to your next posts.

I am not a teacher from now and until I receive the title from a recognized Ninjutsu organization.

This is exactly why I said to drop the Sensei title and forget the idea of "Kumori Ryu".

I do intend on directing and keeping my site and group open but there will be changes made...

We'll come back to this as well.

I.E. Kumori Ryu Ninjustu will be an Official "Study Group"

A Study Group is a training group under the direction of a senior instructor (not the member taking the group, the teacher of the Study Group leader).... without that, it's not even a Study Group, just a group of people getting together to practice and train. That is the credibility and "paper" you would need. That will be repeated.

I will make Chris happy and not call anyone Uke.. lol just funnin ya chris.

Don't really know what you mean by "just funnin ya"... I'm not sure whether or not you are going to stop misusing the term or not. You seem to use things like "lol" in rather odd ways that don't give context, and make it unclear whether or not you are serious in what you're saying...

But, for the record, it's not to make me happy, it's to make you sound like there's a small chance you have a tiny clue what you're talking about. I'll put it this way: You teach your kids this, or Brad, or whoever. In a few years, they go to a legitimate school, and use the term the same way you are using it. They will be told in no uncertain terms that what they are saying, and how they are saying it, is completely wrong, and may ask where they picked it up from. They mention you, and are told how bad what they have "learnt" from you really is. They then feel betrayed and feel (rightly) that you have been fraudulant in your delivery and teachings to them. This is a way to prevent that, and start you on the right path. If you don't want to learn from people here who really know what they are talking about (clue here, you don't know what you're talking about), then why are you here?

I will be here to help in any way.

To help? Really? How? Is there anything you think you can tell us that we don't already know? Anything at all?

I will be here to listen to thoughts and those that are nice enough to give sound advise

Well, that was what I've been doing since you first turned up, you just chose to see correction as an attack. Let's see if you can improve on that this time... personally, I'm waiting to see it first.

I will be Humble

False humility (the way Choson Ninja/Greg Park does things) doesn't count.

I will show respect

Again, I'll wait until I see it.

I thank you now and will always thank you!

Right.

BTW I know your dying to know...
Its the Kashiwa Bujinkan and Mr. Garner is an excellent individual!!
We had a good 20 to 30 min talk about all of this!!!
Also, if you have an opinion on the school lets please keep it civil, I respect them VERY MUCH!

Take care, and please, If you have a honest question PM me...

Talk to Mr Garner about you continuing your Kumori Ryu thing as well. Technically the Bujinkan rules don't allow it, so you know. And frankly, if you were my student you would be told basically that you can either keep in your little fantasy world, or you can train with us. Not both. If it's a Study Group, then it would need to be under his direction, and having a Study Group under the name of a made-up system is not something I can see being allowed.

If he is "agreeing with it", then I don't believe you have truly been honest with him. Point him towards these threads if you think you've been honest, as you would therefore have nothing to hide.

Id like to Edit this but i cant... Im not a teacher but a I will share!!
We are a Study Group so that we may take in all that we learn... and grow with the knowledge given to us!

Thanks

Again, without the direction of a qualified instructor looking after the progress and direction of the group, no, it's not a Study Group.

Chris, I took you off of ignore so I could see what you say... lol

See, I have no idea what the "lol" is about there.... Is it meant to be a laugh about what I posted?

I have no desire to change my group, I have no desire to drop my web page.. Its not to make you mad... Its because my group and I want to continue learning... We appreciate your input, but we desire to work hard and learn... And not to be an *** but, We view people that tell us to quit as inspiration and motivation to succeed!

If you have no intention to change your group, and you have been honest here, then why did you post this in your "apology letter"?:

I do intend on directing and keeping my site and group open but there will be changes made...

Again, this is the inconsistency I'm refering to.

We love training... We need no endorsement. We want no endorsement... We are gonna do our thing, cause this is America!!!

Thank you for your opinion...

For it to be a Study Group, you absolutely need endorsement! That's the point of a Study Group, it's not a training group for people to get together and go through what they want, it's a group to study the material sent from the guiding instructor, which is not you. Being America is really nothing to do with it, whatsoever, especially when dealing with Japanese martial traditions and organisations. Again, if this was the attitude you came to me with, you'd be invited to leave. Immediately.

This is the "right attitude" that was mentioned earlier, by having the attitude of "we can do what we want, we're American" shows no interest in learning, or in listening to anyone about these things.

We want no endorsement. Mr. garner is not interested in endorsing us.. Im sure of that... Im not in need of credibility... People think paper makes them a true practitioner, Ive seen people with cirtificates that can not teach let alone run a group or dojo...

If he's not interested in you running a Study Group, take that on board. He may just feel that he wants to see how you are before he gives his permission... or he could simply want you to focus on being a student, especially if you were close to actually honest with him (about creating your own system and so forth).

Im not looking for any blessings. My group is in no need of recognition... I posted my letter to give you the full story of me as many have asked for and I wanted to grant there wish... I also wanted to clear the air about my image, however I see it will probably do no good as people here assume the worst... I have been most honest with you...

We're not giving any blessings, that's not our place here to do, it's something that should come from your instructor. What we are giving is realistic advice, based on far greater experience, skill, understanding, knowledge, and so on. If you're ignoring that, frankly that's your own problem.

After a lot of discussion with my fellow ryu members... We are on the same page with our plans... We are directors.. We want to simply help point people in a good direction!

Okay, I'm going to say it again... You have no Ryu! You don't have any understanding of what the term means. You have a group of people that, for reasons I don't understand (probably as the majority seem to be children, from your pics on your school page) go to you for what they think is legitimate training.

And you have not pointed anyone in the anything close to a good direction if you have allowed them to become students of yours, honestly.

After this, I am not going to pay much attention to those wanting to question or mock our group, Until I came here for a place to connect no one knew about us, now you all know.

Your group is beyond suspect, and incredibly lacking in any credibility. But you are going to ignore anyone questioning it? Yep, that's that "open mind" and "right attitude" we were mentioning.

We have had our site blow up since I came here... And that is great... We love you guys for showing us that people can sit at their computer and go on and on and on about us!!!

Uh, has it occured to you that if the increased traffic is related to the threads here and on MAP, in which most posts are pointing out that you have no business teaching anyone anything, that most of the traffic isn't potential students, but people from the forums wanting to see just how bad you and your group is? A high hit count isn't really the best thing for you right now....

Thanks so much for your time and energy...

I personally don't believe that this is in any way genuine, you know. Again, the amount of sarcastic endings to posts you have put like this makes it very difficult to take such "humility" seriously.
 
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Tez3

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I'm one of those that had a look at the site just to see what it was like, just two questions....why is Jon wearing a white earring and why does he have his finger up his nose?
 

Chris Parker

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Earring = Pirate?

As to the "posture".... honestly, unles people want me to get mean, the less said the better. Suffice to say that I see no skill in the body positioning of Jon or Brad below him whatsoever, the holding of their hands is completely out-of-whack, and so on.
 

Bruno@MT

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Oh yes. The destroyer style. I remember that.
IIRC he did eventually realize that he was being way overenthusiastic in his approach and enrolled in a school.

About the positive feedback you got from friends and family: have you evr watched American Idol? You know how some people really, really suck at singing, and are brought to tears when the jury tells them in no uncertain terms. What you often see is that a) they won't believe it, and b) 'all their friends and family' told them they were really good.

(b) is usually due to people just wanting to be friendly and encouraging and not willing to bring you down, or just to make you stop yammering about it. Not because it is actually true. And if they have no MA training themselves, how would they know anyway?
 

Chris Parker

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Yeah... took a while, and citing stories involving the deaths of police officers to get a point across, though....

As to the reasons that "friends and family" would support Jon, I highly doubt that any of the supporters have any idea of martial arts in general, or Ninjutsu in particular outside of Jon "talking their ears off". Not what I would call a qualified opinion....
 

Supra Vijai

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wooooow I stay away from the forums for a day and I miss out on so much! What is the finger up the nose posture that Tez mentioned meant to be?
 

Bruno@MT

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MY EYES!!! MY EYES!!!!



Ok I had a look at that website beyond the main page.
As long as that abomination is still there, with the grading requirements, the pictures that show a complete lack of any understanding of anything 'ninjutsu' and the heavily abused and misspelled terms and names.... I won't believe that the 'reformation' is anything other than a charade.


And I really, honestly believe that no real Bujinkan instructor could have looked upon that page and decided to go along with it.
 

Bruno@MT

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wooooow I stay away from the forums for a day and I miss out on so much! What is the finger up the nose posture that Tez mentioned meant to be?

To be honest I think she is refering to the pic on the main page. It's a visual illusion created by the fact that the lens of the camera, his finger and his nose are directly lin line, with the camera being too close. His arm is outstretched but it almost looks as if he is touching his nose.
 

Chris Parker

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wooooow I stay away from the forums for a day and I miss out on so much! What is the finger up the nose posture that Tez mentioned meant to be?

Honestly? Who knows.... it looks like a very bad cross between Seigan, Ichimonji, and one or two others... with a very bad hand formation to say the least!

Oh, and Bruno? You mean that will believe that the "reformation" is a charade, yes?
 

Tez3

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Earring = Pirate?

As to the "posture".... honestly, unles people want me to get mean, the less said the better. Suffice to say that I see no skill in the body positioning of Jon or Brad below him whatsoever, the holding of their hands is completely out-of-whack, and so on.


I found the 'welcome uke' a bit odd, now very often I am the Uke, as often I am the Tori, just a little odd being called uke as a 'title'.
While the site had info on classes I couldn't understand what a beginner would be taught and what all the grades are, Japanese names are fine when you've been around a Japanese style for a while but for beginners or for those you want to attract in to your organisation a plain statement of what you teach would be best, too much talk of secret Ninja techniques tends to put genuine beginners off while attracting the wannabee run around the forest in rope sandals types. It had the feel of a fantasy site though the kids photos mitigated that a little that, they were doing however what I've done with children in karate, TKD and TSD so I'd have like to have seen what made it 'special' for children.
I'm the first to say I know little about swords but I'm an expert on mats! The guy with the sword on the two blue mats will very shortly be slipping between them, mark my words!
 

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