new USAT sparring rules....

[d1jinx]

been gone from the board for a while so if this has been discussed this year... sorry.

but,

what do you think about the new rules for this year?

1 point kick/punch to the body,
2 points turn kick to body
3 points head kick
4 points turning head kick...

while it is definately gonna encourage some skill and tecnique, do you think its opening up for more scoring disasters and bungles???? I mean have you seen the "new" controller... buttons galore!!!

just wondering peoples take...

 

[britt_boo]

yeah i heard about the new rules, i saw alot of people at the ohio state qualifier for nationals testing it out,with the new rules the matches for more exciting to watch because of the score. i saw someone who needed like 4 pionts to win pull off a spin hook kick like in the last round really cool

 

[ATC]

The contoller is the same box that they have been using. They just stop the match for a spin head kick and the center ref then instructs the table to add a point.

However my son landed a back spinning kick (spinning hook) to the head of one of his opponents and only got 3 points for it. Even us coached did not remember to ask for the additional point. He was up 11 to 0 though so I guess we didn't care that much. I saw quite a few matches where only 3 points were scored for the spin kick to the head.

Below is a frame by frame capture of the kick. He is just coming out of the spin and extending the kick.

 

[Gorilla]

The contoller is the same box that they have been using. They just stop the match for a spin head kick and the center ref then instructs the table to add a point.

However my son landed a back spinning kick (spinning hook) to the head of one of his opponents and only got 3 points for it. Even us coached did not remember to ask for the additional point. He was up 11 to 0 though so I guess we didn't care that much. I saw quite a few matches where only 3 points were scored for the spin kick to the head.

Below is a frame by frame capture of the kick. He is just coming out of the spin and extending the kick.

not sure but I believe only 14 and above BB

 

[Gorilla]

not sure but I believe only 14 and above BB

...I saw that kick live incredible

 

[ATC]

not sure but I believe only 14 and above BB

Ahhh...so the 12-13 still only get 3 points maybe. That would explaine things.

 

[troubleenuf]

I think that if you thought the referees sucked before this is going to make it just that much worse.

been gone from the board for a while so if this has been discussed this year... sorry.

but,

what do you think about the new rules for this year?

1 point kick/punch to the body,
2 points turn kick to body
3 points head kick
4 points turning head kick...

while it is definately gonna encourage some skill and tecnique, do you think its opening up for more scoring disasters and bungles???? I mean have you seen the "new" controller... buttons galore!!!

just wondering peoples take...

 

[d1jinx]

The contoller is the same box that they have been using. They just stop the match for a spin head kick and the center ref then instructs the table to add a point..

seems to me there are 1 more set of buttons than last year. could be wrong but i swear there were less buttons last year.

 

[d1jinx]

Ahhh...so the 12-13 still only get 3 points maybe. That would explaine things.

yes, no 4 point for junior safety rules....

 

[Rumy73]

I think that if you thought the referees sucked before this is going to make it just that much worse.

going to make it just that much worse.[/quote]

I really find this statement sad and offensive. I recently volunteered to become a referee in order to support the local TKD community. I am a family man and I gave up a two Saturdays to learn the rules and regs. Being on the officiating side is much different than being a player or coach. When people take jabs at refs, most of whom are volunteers, it really doesn't encourage anyone else to come forward. Complainers "suck" by the way.

Now about the rule changes... I think it will make TKD unnecessarily dangerous. In order to score more points, players will be enticed to execute flashier moves and in doing so, they expose themselves to KO hits or can seriously hurt the opponent. This all being done for the sake of the audience, satiating their appetite for action. People are disappointed with TKD, because it is mental game as much as it has been a physical one. The new rules make it more like fighting and less like a match..​

 

[Rumy73]

not sure but I believe only 14 and above BB

Nice kick. Shame on all the coaches who fail to instill the need for a player to keep his or her guard up.

 

[terryl965]

going to make it just that much worse.

I really find this statement sad and offensive. I recently volunteered to become a referee in order to support the local TKD community. I am a family man and I gave up a two Saturdays to learn the rules and regs. Being on the officiating side is much different than being a player or coach. When people take jabs at refs, most of whom are volunteers, it really doesn't encourage anyone else to come forward. Complainers "suck" by the way.​

Now about the rule changes... I think it will make TKD unnecessarily dangerous. In order to score more points, players will be enticed to execute flashier moves and in doing so, they expose themselves to KO hits or can seriously hurt the opponent. This all being done for the sake of the audience, satiating their appetite for action. People are disappointed with TKD, because it is mental game as much as it has been a physical one. The new rules make it more like fighting and less like a match..​

[/quote]

Well sorry to say this to you, but the majority of refs. would not know what a proper exicuted kick was. That is why it has always been bad. Just like any sport humans miss alot of what is going on and as well human have there own views about what should or should not be. Last humans have the thing called my school will win if I am a ref syndrome and it happens all the time. We need refs but at the same time we need quality refs that will do the right thing.

 

[Rumy73]

I really find this statement sad and offensive. I recently volunteered to become a referee in order to support the local TKD community. I am a family man and I gave up a two Saturdays to learn the rules and regs. Being on the officiating side is much different than being a player or coach. When people take jabs at refs, most of whom are volunteers, it really doesn't encourage anyone else to come forward. Complainers "suck" by the way.​

Now about the rule changes... I think it will make TKD unnecessarily dangerous. In order to score more points, players will be enticed to execute flashier moves and in doing so, they expose themselves to KO hits or can seriously hurt the opponent. This all being done for the sake of the audience, satiating their appetite for action. People are disappointed with TKD, because it is mental game as much as it has been a physical one. The new rules make it more like fighting and less like a match..​

Well sorry to say this to you, but the majority of refs. would not know what a proper exicuted kick was. That is why it has always been bad. Just like any sport humans miss alot of what is going on and as well human have there own views about what should or should not be. Last humans have the thing called my school will win if I am a ref syndrome and it happens all the time. We need refs but at the same time we need quality refs that will do the right thing.[/quote]


Then pony up and pay.

 

[Master Dan]

Well sorry to say this to you, but the majority of refs. would not know what a proper exicuted kick was. That is why it has always been bad. Just like any sport humans miss alot of what is going on and as well human have there own views about what should or should not be. Last humans have the thing called my school will win if I am a ref syndrome and it happens all the time. We need refs but at the same time we need quality refs that will do the right thing.

Then pony up and pay.[/quote]

That is why we need a quality NGB that will support education and a spirit of a need to serve as volunteers and the training and qualifying should be sought after thing not a source of revenue to bleed the families and populace of TKD.

On the fighting issue first sparring was way to watered down over time then I feel the 7/12 rule brought back a more active spirit. Second couldn't see a point? exactly at one point in the 90's you had to hope for one single good point in a match. Third family sparring is one thing but adult sparring was meant to be a full contact all out fight with strategy but KO or technical KO definetly sought out but with respect between both fighters the loss of that has given birth to the MMA we see today.

 

[terryl965]

Well sorry to say this to you, but the majority of refs. would not know what a proper exicuted kick was. That is why it has always been bad. Just like any sport humans miss alot of what is going on and as well human have there own views about what should or should not be. Last humans have the thing called my school will win if I am a ref syndrome and it happens all the time. We need refs but at the same time we need quality refs that will do the right thing.

Then pony up and pay.[/quote]

Pony up and pay what, I am a certified ref in both orgs. My son's are certified refs as well as my wife. So what would you like me to do? I see it at every tournament refs. not knowing the rules or are stuck back in the eighties, some do not understand what is light head contact others believe if it goes anywhere close it is a penalty. The system is broke and has benn forever, it needs to be overhauled and not one single org is trying to make it better. Sorry but the truth hurts sometimes, look at my state Texas our refs are so far a part they cannot get them together for anything. The pay is bad and for most of us it cost us money to even go be a ref. they need to fund the refs because without them the tournaments just keep getting worst and worst.

 

[d1jinx]

I agree, if the org truly wants to succeed, they would make it more of an incentive to referee. look at it this way, we are paying for things that dont make the Org money, yet good reliable Referees will. here's how...

ever been to a tournament where you were waiting mostly for a ring to open back up because of NO referees? the longer the day at these events, the less happy people are and the less likely they will return.

The success of a tournament, regardless of whose tournament, relies on the referees.

$50 a day, does not even cover the $60 seminar fee I had to pay for the privalige to be a referee. then add travel expenses, if any.

Also the grading and promotion of referees is screwed up. I know a few who are "terrified" in the center ring and have absolutley NO comfort at all on the floor, who are only a 1st or 2nd DAN, who are "A" class referees. Depending on who they know of course....

bottom line, they need to focus more on referee developement and grading. right now, its take what we can get.

 

[troubleenuf]

Please forgive me if I am not very eloquent today... its been a long week.
I find it even more offensive when I take players, who pay out for travel expenses, hotel, food and entry fees, to a tournament and the referees dont have a clue. Are there good referees? You bet, I know a few. But if you take even 3 good referees and put them in a ring with 1 bad one what do you get? A mess because that one bad one makes ALL of them look bad. And in the end the referees get to go home while the athletes are the one who have to deal with the disappointments after hours and hours of workouts, pain, injuries and dedication. THEY DESERVE BETTER. Just because someone volunteers does NOT make them a good referee. It makes them free help and unfortunately that is more important in most tournaments than making sure they have good referees.
By the way, our last tournament that we hosted the referees sucked... and they were my people. I had to replace referees in the middle of a match (yes, I know you are not supposed to do that) and put in people who I knew would score correctly. I had to reduce rings to make sure we had qualified referees in the seats. And we I informed my entire organization that we would not host another tournament until I was confident that we could put competent referees in the chairs.

I really find this statement sad and offensive. I recently volunteered to become a referee in order to support the local TKD community. I am a family man and I gave up a two Saturdays to learn the rules and regs. Being on the officiating side is much different than being a player or coach. When people take jabs at refs, most of whom are volunteers, it really doesn't encourage anyone else to come forward. Complainers "suck" by the way.

Now about the rule changes... I think it will make TKD unnecessarily dangerous. In order to score more points, players will be enticed to execute flashier moves and in doing so, they expose themselves to KO hits or can seriously hurt the opponent. This all being done for the sake of the audience, satiating their appetite for action. People are disappointed with TKD, because it is mental game as much as it has been a physical one. The new rules make it more like fighting and less like a match..​

[/QUOTE]

 

[Master Dan]

One thing that would help is to have all referee's and judges arive early for a review of all scoring and refereeing rules and proceedures including demonstrating all variations and practice simulated rounds. We have usually done this about 2 hours prior to tournament start. It helps to get everyone on the same page and for those who are confident and knowledgeble to demonstrate proper technique in a non threatening enviroment and even to have those with less experience a chance to practice.

We have done this with our regional open tournament for 38 years and for the most part has worked well.

There might even be a case for doing this publicaly so that parents and coaches will also be on the same page and understand.

There has been a great increase in interference with refereeing and judging by parents and spectators when they are seated close to competion rings or allowed on the competion rings floors. I have witnessed parents storming into the ring demanding things or even threats to the center referee by parents for the referee giving warnings or disqualification for certain things to thier competitors.

Also Master's need to teach other reasons for going to tournament than having to win 1st place. Our expectations were always told to us that wining many times is on luck of who is judging that day what matters more is doing your best, what did you learn fellowship with other MA people. Partcipation should be its own reward and encouraging others to participate for fun and thier personal development.

Go some where to have fun and new experience even culture.

Just my two cents