New Site & Discussion Board

[chufeng]

Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background

...an insult to those junior students out there busting there butts to achieve some level of proficiency...Give me an honest hard working kyu-ranked student anyday rather than one who lives in a fantasy world and, because the knowledge is lacking, can actually cause injury by improper instruction...

Excuse me but I think I'm going to...:barf:

My final word on this, honest.

chufeng

 

[John Bishop]

I guess you could always drop all the website advertizing, self promoting, and other gratuitous crap. And then actually become a student, train hard, and earn some legitmate rank.
But, I guess that sounds like too much work.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by John Bishop
I guess you could always drop all the website advertizing, self promoting, and other gratuitous crap. And then actually become a student, train hard, and earn some legitmate rank.
But, I guess that sounds like too much work.

Wise words…………however, people that keep their “cake hole” shut study and train hard for years never get the fame and fortune that Ron so badly craves.

 

[paihequan]

To reply,

Regardless of your tactics Robert, I will not engage in a childish and petty "pissing match" with you. As stated I respect your right to your opinions and will not engage in politics.

As for myself, my actions in the past, I fully admit that I have made some mistakes. Yeah I did copy some ideas from another web site but have since changed it all. I have had discussions with the owner of the site and the matter has been rectified and we have simply moved on.I have addressed these matters with those it concerns directly. The outcome of those matters has been agreed upon and the subject agreed closed by both parties. It is of no concern to you as at no time on this board did I raise the subject of rank or the matters you write about. Currently though I claim no rank. As such I view your current argument as null and void.

I prefer to judge someone on floor and not by the belt they wear around their waist or the Menjo they have hanging on the wall.

For whatever it may be worth I no longer post or frequent the "Vital Point" board although I'm sure it's owner would appreciate you giving it advertisement on Martial Talk!

Sir at no time have I directly engaged in attacking you or attempted to vilify you on this dicsussion board. I have in fact answered your posts as shown above. That being so I consider this matter over and done with. I will continue to post on other subjects with due respect to all and shall not, no matter how hard you try, respond in such a negative manner as displayed by yourself.

Mr. Bishop Thank you for your post, In fact I have removed any such references to rank, title etc from our web site. In addition, I have myself linked up with a Instructor of the Master Huang Sheng-Shyan lineage for training of myself and those who choose to study with me. Master Huang Sheng-Shyan also learnt Fujian White Crane directly from Xie Zhong Xiang (Ryuruko).

Yours most cordially

 

[arnisador]

It seems that the specifics of paihequan's background have been covered. We encourage everyone to return to more general issues. MartialTalk is for the friendly discussion of the martial arts, not martial artists.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[paihequan]

Sir, I agree and hope that others will comply with your suggestion.

Regards,

 

[Matt Stone]

I wonder how long it will take for this thread to be locked down... I have seen more threads locked in the past week than in the last several months combined.

Paihequan -

While I work in criminal prosecution, and the ongoing theme in US Law seems to be one of having certain offenses following you the rest of your days, I have also worked in prosecution long enough to develop the defense attitude of wanting to see someone be able to move past their misdeeds and move forward toward better things. I'd be a hypocrite of the highest magnitude if I failed to extend that opportunity to you...

I haven't attacked you (that I'm aware of) on this issue, and I don't plan to. Others that have renounced their former questionable activities I have allowed every chance to prove the depth of their reformation. I extend that same chance to you as well.

Unfortunately, however, you will carry the stigma of your past behavior until you accumulate enough "good deeds" to camoflauge the things you did that caused so many folks to take issue with you in the first place. I look forward to your contributions here on MT. Only your comments and deeds will help to erase your past. Arguments on your behalf, defending your past, etc., won't.

I hope you are able to put it all behind you some day.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Don Roley]

Paihequan,
If you truelly wish to reform, instead of just giving lip service, I think a good start would be to cease with the nasty comments about others like RyuShiKan. A man who has done the things you have done, and been the center of hell in the Karate section of e-budo, should not try to gain the moral high ground with comments of how you will not "lower" yourself to others levels.

It was less than three weeks after you posted a letter of apology before you started setting off alarms with similar behavior as to what caused problems in the past. I do not think it unusual for people to doubt your sincerity given your past performance. It is not ancient history to be forgotten, it is less time than you can usually check out a book form the library. You have still to prove yourself and can not expect us to open our arms so soon after all you have done. Saying "getover it" and such just gives us the impression that you do not want to deal with the matter and just get on with your past behavior, especially when you pop up in a place that was not aware of you until RyuShiKan blew the whistle.

If you admit you know nothing signifigent in the martial arts and have done wrong, then there will be less friction. But if you try to speak like an expert again I would not be surprised if RyuShiKan posts that letter again. His tone may be harsh, but you are the one with the history of falsifying claims and experiences, setting up false IDs to praise yourself, plagerism, etc. You have caused a lot of people trouble, so you will have to earn trust in people who do not expect it when they look at your history.

But if you are sincere, then I hope your actions will reflect it and you will not give RyuShiKan or others the chance to jump up and point out how they were right about you. I have read your past posts and have to say, I kind of doubt you are being serious. I expect more trouble as you repeat all the disruptive behavior you have engaged in the past.

Please prove me wrong on this point with your ACTIONS.

 

[paihequan]

Yiliquan1 :

Thank you for your post.


Don Roley Sir, I have admitted to past mistakes and have addressed it with those it actually concerned. Those who it concerned have stated that the matter is closed. That's good enough for me. As for RyuShiKan (Robert) I have at no time attacked him on this board but rather have treated him with respect despite his attitudes and attacks upon myself. I stand by what I said before and that is I will not be drawn into a slanging match with him nor any other individual on Martial Talk, no need for it. If that is not "moving on" I don't know what is.

At no time have I came on to this board acting as an "expert" (whatever that may be!) nor will I. I am simply here to join in some of the interesting discussion taking place and that is what I intend to do when ever the opportunity arises regardless of the negative attitudes thrown at me.

I am simply trying to be respectful to all and hope for the very same values in return.

 

[Don Roley]

Originally posted by paihequan

Don Roley Sir, I have admitted to past mistakes and have addressed it with those it actually concerned. Those who it concerned have stated that the matter is closed. That's good enough for me.

It would have been better if you had discussed what you had done instead of having it revealed by RyuShiKan, whom you then started making digs at. It also would have been better had you been willing to talk about it rather than trying to portray it as old news that should be forgotten. You did a great amount of damge, and the only things that you seem to have done is correct the things you were caught on and written a single letter. Two weeks later, you are on another board and the natural suspicion is that you were testing the waters before you renewed your behavior.

Now that we know what went on, maybe you can earn some respect despite what went on before. Just remember that your actions are suspect based on past experience. That may be hard to live with, but that is the truth.

Originally posted by paihequan
As for RyuShiKan (Robert) I have at no time attacked him on this board but rather have treated him with respect despite his attitudes and attacks upon myself. I stand by what I said before and that is I will not be drawn into a slanging match with him nor any other individual on Martial Talk, no need for it. If that is not "moving on" I don't know what is.

Moving on is making a honest effort to reform your past mistakes and atone for the harm you have done. RyuShiKan has been harsh in what he says about you, but it has been accurate. You have responded not with remorsefull acceptence, but in sarcastism and digs at him. Please stop your disruptive behavior. If he says that you are a liar, it is because you have shown a pattern of lying in the past. Accept it and move on.

Originally posted by paihequan
At no time have I came on to this board acting as an "expert" (whatever that may be!) nor will I. I am simply here to join in some of the interesting discussion taking place and that is what I intend to do when ever the opportunity arises regardless of the negative attitudes thrown at me.

I am simply trying to be respectful to all and hope for the very same values in return.

Respect must be earned, especially after what you have admitted to. You will recieve negative attitude, but that is something you must accept and be ready to prove that you have reformed. If you respond with snarls to people that point out that you did wrong, you will only give the impression that you don't really want to reform, only continue with your actions.

So please, no subtle digs about being pulled into a slagging match, no comments about how RyuShiKan is not posting on other sites or anything like that. Please show respect and understand that with all the karma you carry, people will not treat you with a lot of trust. If you can earn it back, great. But do not expect it as a given. I hope you really are trying to change this time.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by paihequan
Geez all this because I posted a link to a web site

No, “all this” is because of your devious actions over the last decade.

Originally posted by paihequan
It's "old news" at best and long since dealt with on other discussion forums.

Old news???
I don’t get it…..is that a joke?
That email was sent May 03, 2003 12:14 PM.

Originally posted by paihequan
To reply,

Regardless of your tactics Robert.........

No “tactics” involved.
I was merely putting forth factual evidence of your less than exemplary, not so distant past…..in fact it hasn’t even been a month since you fessed up to your little shenanigans.
All you have put up is your “opinion” about me which quite frankly doesn’t seem to hold much weight. I know you like playing the “victim” when people find out the little nasty bits of business you have been up to….it goes around and around then you claim you are going to turn over a new leaf but never do.

Originally posted by paihequan
As for myself, my actions in the past, I fully admit that I have made some mistakes. Yeah I did copy some ideas from another web site but have since changed it all. I have had discussions with the owner of the site and the matter has been rectified and we have simply moved on.I have addressed these matters with those it concerns directly. The outcome of those matters has been agreed upon and the subject agreed closed by both parties. It is of no concern to you as at no time on this board did I raise the subject of rank or the matters you write about. Currently though I claim no rank. As such I view your current argument as null and void.

I am amazed you down play your despicable conduct as if you were caught jay walking or got a parking ticket.
You claim to have students and that makes you a teacher for God’s sake!
Is this the conduct of someone who is to impart any sort of martial knowledge or moral conduct for using said art?

Originally posted by paihequan
I prefer to judge someone on floor and not by the belt they wear around their waist or the Menjo they have hanging on the wall.

Is that some sort of disguised challenge?

Originally posted by paihequan
I will not engage in a childish and petty "pissing match" with you.

There is nothing “childish” about this Ron.
What you did to get this infamy is childish but warning others about you is a public service!

Like Elvis said:

"A little less talk and a little more action"

That is what is required of you Ron before people can even entertain the thought of taking you seriously about your claims to have turned over a new leaf.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Ron,
It seems that promise to turn over a new leaf has already been broken. Man! It hasn't even been a month! That's gotta be a record for you Ron.

I submit this from your own BBs that you posted..........note the date of the post on this page:
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview...=1&start=21&CategoryID=168798&ThreadID=705380
(by the way......I emailed that page to myself just in case you decide to change it after reading this)

Date Posted: 05/25/2003 11:59 AM

Tony: To answer, I was with Yabiku Sensei for around 9 or so years, communicating in person and spending some time training with him on Okinawa. Yabiku-san is an interesting character. Some say he is only a "Taxi Driver", that his ranks are not legitimate but I prefer to judge someone on floor and not by the belt they wear around their waist or the Menjo they have hanging on the wall.The training itself was very relaxed and informal, no uniforms or belts just Kata and Bunkai for 7 hours a day which was then followed by a visit to Okinawan cultural sights of interest as I believe he was very proud of his culture.He is a hard trainer, lots of repitition and guidance, yet open, relaxed and friendly. He has and openly admits to adding of himself to that which he does and I respect that in a person.As for the Okinawan Culture section, all you would have to do is simply moderate the discussion that may take place, answer some questions or make some posts. I'll wait for your decision before going ahead with it.Regards, Ron Goninan KOBGK Paihequan Wuyangkuan International

____________________________________________

And now we can see the "real" Ron Goninan........
This is the letter you wrote to Patrick McCarthy..........note the training time with Yabiku..........one day wasn't it?

Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:14 PM

To Mr. Patrick McCarthy,
Please find enclosed my sincere letter of personal apology for the years of slander, underhanded behaviour and plagiarizing your copyrighted work.
Having long suffered a lack of self-esteem, I have always wanted to be something I was not. An inflated ego fueled my ambition to seek out the kind of mail-order recognition that I could easily use to establish a guise of importance, made me feel important. Coming from a small community in country NSW, this worked particularly well and made me appear as if I were a big fish in a small bowl. Jumping from style to style over the years presented an opportunity for me to misrepresent my actual experience with each new instructor I met. So used to this did I become that I even began to believe it myself. Writing articles for martial arts magazines helped to generate a little more publicity, which not only solidified my opinion of myself it also gave me another way with which to accredited myself. My martial arts studies have been both diverse and dotted with false claims of outlandish rank from un-credible sources. I actually purchased a *Soke* rank from Rod Sarconoski's Juko-kai for $1500, and then several years later accepted an 8th dan Hanshi license from a complete charlatan in Okinawa named Takaya Yabiku, after only ever training with him once. It's probably of little interest to you, but this long and lonely road has finally caught up to me and I am now choosing to expose all, in an effort to escape the enormous chain anxiety that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live.
I have knowingly carried out self-aggrandizing, unscrupulous and underhanded activities all in an effort to establish a reputation for myself, undermine your good name and protect my untenable background. I now regret this greatly. Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background.
I would like it to be known that I am renouncing all the derogatory comments that I have either said or written about you. It was just plain wrong and, as untrustworthy as I have been in the past, I am now appealing to your compassion to forgive me for my reprehensible actions.
In truth, I am a great admirer or your accomplishments within the field of the martial arts and have, like so many others, been inspired by your work. I greatly admire your way of doing things, your research, the way you write, and the way in which you operate your organization. You've really had more of an influence on me then you may know. In a great many ways I have set you as a personal idol of mine. I idolized your work and the respect that was afforded to you and often wished to "be just like you." I guess that this is fairly evident. The problem was the way that I (incorrectly) set about to model my own life on yourself and your own research.
It is my sincere hope and desire that you will accept my apology. Whatever hardships I am presently undergoing are purely the results of my own doing and my family have suffered enough shame and heartbreak as a result of my deplorable actions. I beg that you accept this and allow me the opportunity to work towards coming clean and "making it right again," without the threat of litigation looming over my head.
Sincerely,
Ron Goninan
___________________________________________

So was it 9 years or “a” day?

Maybe Yabiku whacked you on the head so hard it made it feel like 9 years!:rofl:

 

[Matt Stone]

Curiouser and curiouser...

 

[paihequan]

Robert,

To answer briefly I was introduced to Yabiku by Mr. McCarthy by means of an intoduction letter and yes spent around 9 or so years in communications with him leading up to a visit to Okinawa for two weeks training in October 1996. This was to be the only time that I personally trained with Mr. Yabiku. The views as posted on the "Aimoo" board were mine based upon my actual experiences whilst on Okinawa.

I no longer have any connection nor communications with Yabiku Sensei due to his insistence on money over the art and other factors such as his actions in this regards. Nor do I teach any aspect of that he taught me.

As for the rank he awarded me, as stated previously, I claim no rank.

As for the matter with Mr. McCarthy, I am trying to keep to my word that the matter is closed and move onwards as was agreed to by both parties.

 

[paihequan]

Mr. Roley I thank you for your words of advice but I sadly suspect and with all due respect that RyuShiKan will not allow me to move onwards but will continually post regarding my past mistakes.

I will continue to answer the questions put to me in a respectful manner and hope that others will allow me the opportunity to join in the discussions taking place in an open and friendly manner.

 

[paihequan]

I have had a fairly interesting background in the area of the martial arts commencing in January 1970 in the art of Shotokan Karatedo through to the time spent with Mr. Yabiku Takaya of Okinawa pursuing his Okinawan Tsuruken, Sifu Gu-Ping of Guangzhou Province, China and onwards to the present time.

During my involvement within the martial arts I like a great many others inflicted by this thing we call the "Human Condition", have made several mistakes which I regret and have sought to move onwards from.

I have taken a long, hard and honest look at myself and my dealings with others and to seek the opportunity to start anew with a clean slate.

In an effort to escape the politics of this thing called the martial arts that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live, I consider all the ranks etc received during and up to the date of writing to be void in their importance and validity.

With a professed aversion for claiming formal qualifications stemming from a former pursuit of them, I simply exist to teach those interested in joining with us on our pathway to the Martial Arts.

It is now my personal view that the importance of ranks only matters to those who wrap themselves in them. To me, the true quest is to be found in simply making good people, better.

Ranks, titles, these are the concerns of the martial arts "movers" and "shakers". The politicians of the arts.

I have eschewed personal titles and ranks. I've eschewed trying to place descriptions upon myself. I'll leave that to others I don't want to enter into that. I feel it's a dangerous political and ego-motivated pastime which only causes grief.

The true person involved in the martial arts does not give a rat's bum about rank and title. The true battle within the martial arts is knowing oneself and whence you have came. It's about how you treat people in everyday life.

A true master of the martial arts does not have to proclaim it to the world on web sites, in books and publications or to just about anyone who will listen!

A true master is someone who you subconsciously feel drawn to, a person who is open, honest and friendly towards others, who treats others with respect. This is a true master.

One of thing my experiences within the martial arts world have taught me is that the martial arts world is plagued by ego-motivated people, those spurred onwards by ambitious deportment and personal jealousies, and those seeking political and commercial gain. As one who has made his fair share of mistakes, I want no part of this type of martial arts world.

Many martial arts styles were formulated to deal with the social injustices faced of the time. In this respect, Crane-Fist is no different from other forms of Martial Art. However, we are dealing with the mind of the individual and in turn training our own heart mind and body.

After some 31 plus years within the martial arts, I have changed my view of the arts from being one of strictly self-defence to one that encourages life-protection; ways in which to develop and cultivate the mind and body as a means of contributing to society as a whole. Our Paihequan provides us with choices in life, its aim is to foster understanding. In times of dire need, there can be a need to respond violently, brutally and with intent to inflict serious harm to another. However it needs to be done without malice and as dispassionately as one can having made the decision that all other options are not viable.

The end result of this understanding I speak of is that we can develop non-violent responses to the varying forms of aggression, It is only via non-violent action that aggression can and will be overcome. Every situation we face in life has it’s own energy. The manner in which you deal with t5his energy is of vital importance. Understanding the energies that effect our lives helps us to understand ourselves and understanding ourselves means that we can understand one of the founding principles of the martial arts … compassion.

We seek to assist in guiding you on a path that you can use to create your own future within the martial arts.

The KOBGK Paihequan International shall remain a small, non-profit, non-commercial association of people seeking something more from their involvement within the martial arts. It will remain as an association for people, not "martial artists.

I hope to continue to be a loving husband and father to my wife and children while actively pursuing the martial arts ideal with renewed vigor and integrity in all that I undertake from this moment forth.

It is my sincere aim to continue to teach the martial arts unfettered by the politics, ego and other like-distractions normally associated with the martial arts world.


Sincerely,

 

[Matt Stone]

That's taken straight from your website, isn't it?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[paihequan]

Yiliquan1:

Yes but I thought it relevant. I hope it does not cause any offence.

 

[chufeng]

A true master of the martial arts does not have to proclaim it to the world on web sites

Is this a zen koan?

chufeng

 

[Bob Hubbard]

MartialTalk Policy updates and changes:

In the past few weeks several things have happened on this board that have caused concerns among both the staff and our members. These concerns cover a wide range of things. This is our attempt to address them.

First, a point of history.

MartialTalk.com was originally setup in August of 2001 to serve as a discussion forum for a regional web portal. It was never in my wildest dreams that it would be as popular as it is, and go truly world wide. In fact, it has long since outgrown and absorbed its parent site.

MartialTalk is for the “friendly” discussion of ‘martial arts’. The key here is this exact phase. My mental image of MartialTalk is a big living room, everyone relaxing with a cool beverage, chatting about their arts, swapping stories, news, techniques and info.

It is not a place to puff your chest, flex your muscles, get on the soapbox and rabble rouse. Nor is it the place to expose your dirty laundry, spread rumors and lies, stab in the back, and run smear campaigns.

It is not the place for ‘egos’, ‘attitudes’ and ‘agendas’.

We have seen the following problems over the recent few weeks flare up greatly. It is our growing concern that left unchecked, these issues will seriously damage, possibly destroy all the hard work we have all put into this site.


1: Off Topic posts, and major thread drift.
We have specific forums for specific areas. Please, use them. As our post count climbs higher, it is harder and harder for our staff to keep up with policing everything. We need your –active- help. Please post on topic to each thread. If it starts to drift, help steer it back on track by a: -politely- bringing up the original topic and b: starting a new thread for the tangent.


2: Fraud Busting.
Every art has its frauds, fakers, and plain misguided folks. Some of them are obvious, some are not. The purpose of MartialTalk is –not- to be the place that’s the master list of who is legit and who is not. We have -one- forum target at the “Bad Budo” idea. If you have specific information on such things, post it there. The constant jumping from forum to forum and thread to thread of this desire by several well meaning folks to ‘cleanse’ the arts and others who constantly feel the need to defend from attacks that often times aren’t even there is causing us to lock down an excessive number of threads. This cannot be allowed to continue.

Effective immediately, ‘fraud busting’ outside of the realm of the “Bad Budo” forum will result in administrative actions against those involved when it disrupts the smooth operation of this forum. If you have concerns about someone’s rank/status it is to be handled via PM or email. You may post the results of that research in the “Bad Budo” forum if warranted. Educated martial artists will see the fraud for what he/she is and should just ignore them. This board was set up for friendly discussion of martial arts, not as a soapbox for people's personal crusades.

If you have questions, concerns, etc about someone or their 'qualifications', post it in the 'Bad Budo' forum and address it there -within our guidelines-. Interrogator type posts will not be tolerated any further. Post your questions, and give the others time to answer. The non-responsivness of an individual should be enough.


3: Lack of respect or tolerance for differing opinions.
Frankly, we are tired of the arguments about gender, race, nationality, etc. We are tired of those supposedly educated, experienced, trained martial artists, who tend to regress to school yard bully mentalities and tactics.

Effective immediately, we will begin removing those members who disrupt the smooth operation of this forum. If you cannot follow our rules, if you cannot leave your attitude at the door, we do not want you here.

There is a difference between a debate and an argument. We welcome debate, as long as it is within our posted guidelines. Take your argument and flames elsewhere.

The harassment of members, the hiding behind the “you’re not an XXX so you wouldn’t understand”, the “you master sucks”, etc. stuff will stop. Now. I don’t care if he thinks he’s a Sith-Lord and you ‘know’ he is nuts. It will cease, immediately.


4: Adult Content / profanity
Recently, many posts have skirted the line on ‘mature content’. Let me be very specific. If its of a sexual nature it is probably ‘too far’. If you can’t say it with out “cursing like a truck driver”, it is probably too far. If you have to reedit your post as its got lots of *** in it, its too far, and if you change all the *** stuff so that your words mostly show up, you will be booted. Circumventing the filters is a suspendable offense, and will be more strongly enforced in the future. We have at least a 5-10% membership under the age of 14.


5: The “General” forum is not the “everything goes here” forum.
If it does not involve martial arts, it goes in the locker room, unless it is a joke, in which case it goes in the humor forum. If you need help, post it in the support forum, not buried 50 posts deep in a thread wondering why we don't reply.



We are working to find ways to resolve the issues that have been brought to our attention. This will take time, and it will require the assistance of our members. 1500 members, 10 mods. There’s a lot more members than staff.


This forum and its features is here for your use and enjoyment. It is up to you on how you behave here. You can treat it as a prized resource, or a toilet. Those who do the latter will rapidly be removed.


My staff and I are your hosts. You are all our guests. We expect you to behave as such. We will remove at our discretion any and all those who we feel are not behaving by our rules. This will be done regardless of rank, title, previous contribution or political alignment. If you cannot follow our rules, the door is there. Don’t let it hit you in the *** on your way out. We will honor –ALL- “remove my account” requests immediately from this point on. No saves, no pauses. If you are suspended and ‘whine’, you will be banned. It is fair to ask ‘why’, but once told, take it like a grown up.

Before someone say this is singling out anyone in particular, it is not.


Any questions?