New Site & Discussion Board

[chufeng]

Steel Shadow,

I am not going to stand by and make nice-nice with someone who has already been established as a plagarist at the very least...

A lie is a lie...

I know a lot of folks want this to be a relative world (and in many ways it is) but when one speaks untruths, one can no longer be trusted...and when that one person tries to rewrite what is true and what is not, it reminds me, sadly, of our ex-president who wanted to redefine the word IS.

I will put this Paihequan character on my ignore list, but I want it on the record that I don't trust his motive for being here...sure, he has a right to be here...as much as any one else...

I simply lost my composure when I found out about the dishonesty he's displayed in the past...for that, I apologize...an indication that I still need to work on a few things...

There is right and wrong...not everything is relative...but Christ did tolerate those with worse faults, so I guess I can too.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[paihequan]

Chufeng,

Thank you for your post. I respect your right to your opinions.

Yes I admit I have made some mistakes in the past and those mistakes have been addressed with the person or persons they concerned and have been resolved. I, like you, need and am working on a few things myself.

My motivations are I can assure you simply to enjoy respectful discussions with others.

Once again, I will not enter into a "Flame War" with others.

Best wishes.

 

[SteelShadow]

Im not saying stand by and say nothing or even to make nice to those you dislike.all im saying is at least if you feel someone is a screwup give them the chance to do so before you trash them.(not saying you did).And im sure someone will say oh well so and so already did mess up well crap who hasnt that dosnt mean to jump in everytime you see thier name and start trashing them.everyone messes up And im not defending anyone Im simply saying just because you feel someone is questionable or not to your likeing .Dosnt mean to trash them or start trying to make them look bad.And in my HO those that do this over and over agian need to figure out what it is that is diving them to do this.Is it they want to espose frauds? Maybe.But after awhile you have to wonder if maybe by pointing out others mistakes or flaws or wrongs they can divert thier attention away from thier own shortcomings.Or in some cases maybe they just like to make others look bad.Maybe they truly believe in what thier doing But even the most ritious of beliefs can be taken to far...

Just my thoughts

 

[Matt Stone]

The Mods should be congratulated at the seeming increase in membership. I know a short time ago I was visiting E-budo, and was amazed to see a reference to us Yili folks there, referring a poster to Martial Talk for more information on a question he had posed...

Paihequan -

While I have been a member on E-budo for quite a while, I can't say that I recall the nature of the quarrel between you, Mr. McCarthy and RyuShiKan... Care to elaborate?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by SteelShadow
Im not saying stand by and say nothing or even to make nice to those you dislike.all im saying is at least if you feel someone is a screwup give them the chance to do so before you trash them.(not saying you did).And im sure someone will say oh well so and so already did mess up well crap who hasnt that dosnt mean to jump in everytime you see thier name and start trashing them.everyone messes up And im not defending anyone Im simply saying just because you feel someone is questionable or not to your likeing .Dosnt mean to trash them or start trying to make them look bad.And in my HO those that do this over and over agian need to figure out what it is that is diving them to do this.Is it they want to espose frauds? Maybe.But after awhile you have to wonder if maybe by pointing out others mistakes or flaws or wrongs they can divert thier attention away from thier own shortcomings.Or in some cases maybe they just like to make others look bad.Maybe they truly believe in what thier doing But even the most ritious of beliefs can be taken to far...

Just my thoughts

In most cases, I would think , it's just an extreme lack of tolerance for BS. If I knew enough about these different people, I would be doing the same. Unfortunately, I don't and therefore, need to rely on people like RyuShiKan & Pat McCarthy, to point out frauds wherever they maybe. Especially those in Australia, as I can only judge what I see from what I am taught. RG might be good, I am not qualified to tell, but RSK and PM are, and I trust these 2 gentlemen.
Keep Up The Good Work Robert.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[SteelShadow]

On the same token if you only go by what others say thiers no telling what you will miss.Good or bad rather than going only on what others tell you check things out for yourself and make your on conclusions.again for good or bad.....

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Hahahahahahahahahahah! Nice avatar!

lol...Arthur Fonzerelli aims to please

 

[SteelShadow]

Anyway I said what i had to say.Im finished with it

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Don Roley
I think we are in for alternating insults and then reminders that we have to treat people with respect coming from the same person.

I've been seeing a lot of that lately.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by SteelShadow
On the same token if you only go by what others say thiers no telling what you will miss.Good or bad rather than going only on what others tell you check things out for yourself and make your on conclusions.again for good or bad.....

True enough, but I wouldn't want to send money to a fake, good or bad.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[paihequan]

Geez all this because I posted a link to a web site

 

[Matt Stone]

Having a past can be a real *****...

It is hard for a martial arts instructor to make any mistakes of any kind... As semi-public figures, we will all be crucified for any wrongdoing we are caught committing.

I work in the Army JAG Corps, and I have always taught on post as well... Makes it doubly difficult to lead a private life (I have folks coming up in the PX or the commissary saying hello, asking if I'm that "kung fu guy," etc.), and doubly dangerous to do anything questionable...

Small world. Even smaller with the internet. And so marches progress...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[paihequan]

And so marches progress!

Agreed, making any mistakes in the past is a real *****. What is worse is obsessive types who won't allow others to move on from past mistakes and cling to the last scrap of error made as if it were a lifeline. This is a sickness that consumes the individual and that in itself is extremely sad.

I recommend the following article:

Tilting at Windmills: Obsessive Fraud Busting in the Martial Arts


It can be found at:

http://www.philelmore.com/martial/quixote.htm

 

[Matt Stone]

Since you are posting essentially the same info in different places to address your recent discussions with other members, I figure I'll post my reply to your comments elsewhere here as well...

While you may well be right in directing our attention, yet again to Phil's article, I would say that another article should be penned...

"Rubber Rafting Down 'De Nile: The Stubborn Refusal of Some to Acknowledge the Questionability of their Claims."

There are extremes on both sides of the coin - Extreme Fraud Busters, and Extreme Frauds.

It seems to be a common tactic amongst those with questionable martial backgrounds to turn the argument into a personal attack (which, at some level, I suppose it is; though the initial "attack" is aimed at their claims to divinity, super ultimate titles, and secret knowledge from Atlantis), to turn the discussion away from their claims and toward the methods by which they have been exposed ("They were so rude when they exposed my fraudulent background! They should be more polite and tolerant of my illegal activites!"), and to present short lived penitent behavior as excusal of decades long misbehavior...

I think the sword is double-edged, and it certainly cuts both ways. Some folks are too zealous in their prosecution of frauds, and some folks are too concerned with not interfering for fear of stepping on someone's tender sensitivities.

Me? I'd rather err on behalf of the ignorant on whom the frauds relentlessly prey. Any "outing" I have ever participated in has been solely to ensure that information is provided to those who simply don't know better. I have seen too many fakes pocket too much cash from honest people that were too suckered to ask questions.

*** CAVEAT - The comments in this post are not directed toward any individual in particular, in whole or in part, nor toward any on particular organization or association. The comments are intended to be general in nature, and any implication that they are targeting individuals is entirely the misinterpretation of said comments by that individual. ***

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[paihequan]

Yiliquan1

Again Great post, and one I agree with. All I'm trying to say is it can be hard for some to know when to move onwards from their own issues.

All it serves to achieve is to cause further disharmony on what is otherwise a great Discussion Board in which the actual Discussions could be so much more positive and rewarding.

Thanks again.:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

To quote from a book I am reading currently -

"My apologies for my unjust suspicions."

No need to apologize. Eternal vigilance is necessary in all foes of the dark."

Sometimes in our quest for purity, we hurt some feelings and make some enemies. Better to travel with enemies who can appreciate your zeal, than to travel amongst those who would be your friend only to betray you later.

Working for attorneys as I do, I prefer to do things the way I was taught - allow the accused to speak freely. Spur them on periodically, but never let on your intent nor the direction your questioning may take. In due time, they shall either expose or exonerate themselves. Either outcome is inevitable.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by paihequan

Not posting anymore on E-Budo Robert? Why is that?

I got tired of moderating on E-Budo because it was chocker block full of “dipsticks” & wannabees that claimed things like having an 8th dan Hanshi license after only training with someone in Okinawa for one day.

Originally posted by paihequan
Your a little behind the times old mate as Mr. McCarthy and I have settled our issues and decided to each go our separate ways. You would be better served directing your considerable if not misinformed and misguided energies elsewhere as many of us have moved on and are not so obviously "stuck in the past"

I still keep in contact with Patrick and I am well aware of your “arrangement”………:rofl:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by paihequan
And so marches progress!

Agreed, making any mistakes in the past is a real *****. What is worse is obsessive types who won't allow others to move on from past mistakes and cling to the last scrap of error made as if it were a lifeline. This is a sickness that consumes the individual and that in itself is extremely sad.

I will tell you again just I as I told you on E-Budo when you asked for my friendship:

“Because of your despicable past blatant plagiarizing, out right lying about rank and titles, and most of all the whoppers you told about the extant of your training you will have to prove not only to me but the general public that you have changed your ways”

It still goes.........I have yet to see that since I still read some of the things you write on other MA BBs.
You may pull the wool over some eyes here Ron but remember I know you and can’t count all the times you claimed to have “reformed” your ways but have seen you go back to your old ways each time.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Needless to say I don’t trust you Ron and it’s mainly because you have sang the following tune so many times in the past and still have not changed your ways. If you hadn't sang this sob story on several other occasions I might have even believed you but like a broken record you get old and I get tired of listening.
UNtil you change you ways this kind of thing will always come back to haunt you.
As I said on E-Budo............actions speak louder than words........you have a lot to atone for:


----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Goninan
To: Patrick McCarthy
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:14 PM

To Mr. Patrick McCarthy,
Please find enclosed my sincere letter of personal apology for the years of slander, underhanded behaviour and plagiarizing your copyrighted work.
Having long suffered a lack of self-esteem, I have always wanted to be something I was not. An inflated ego fueled my ambition to seek out the kind of mail-order recognition that I could easily use to establish a guise of importance, made me feel important. Coming from a small community in country NSW, this worked particularly well and made me appear as if I were a big fish in a small bowl. Jumping from style to style over the years presented an opportunity for me to misrepresent my actual experience with each new instructor I met. So used to this did I become that I even began to believe it myself. Writing articles for martial arts magazines helped to generate a little more publicity, which not only solidified my opinion of myself it also gave me another way with which to accredited myself. My martial arts studies have been both diverse and dotted with false claims of outlandish rank from un-credible sources. I actually purchased a *Soke* rank from Rod Sarconoski's Juko-kai for $1500, and then several years later accepted an 8th dan Hanshi license from a complete charlatan in Okinawa named Takaya Yabiku, after only ever training with him once. It's probably of little interest to you, but this long and lonely road has finally caught up to me and I am now choosing to expose all, in an effort to escape the enormous chain anxiety that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live.
I have knowingly carried out self-aggrandizing, unscrupulous and underhanded activities all in an effort to establish a reputation for myself, undermine your good name and protect my untenable background. I now regret this greatly. Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background.
I would like it to be known that I am renouncing all the derogatory comments that I have either said or written about you. It was just plain wrong and, as untrustworthy as I have been in the past, I am now appealing to your compassion to forgive me for my reprehensible actions.
In truth, I am a great admirer or your accomplishments within the field of the martial arts and have, like so many others, been inspired by your work. I greatly admire your way of doing things, your research, the way you write, and the way in which you operate your organization. You've really had more of an influence on me then you may know. In a great many ways I have set you as a personal idol of mine. I idolized your work and the respect that was afforded to you and often wished to "be just like you." I guess that this is fairly evident. The problem was the way that I (incorrectly) set about to model my own life on yourself and your own research.
It is my sincere hope and desire that you will accept my apology. Whatever hardships I am presently undergoing are purely the results of my own doing and my family have suffered enough shame and heartbreak as a result of my deplorable actions. I beg that you accept this and allow me the opportunity to work towards coming clean and "making it right again," without the threat of litigation looming over my head.
Sincerely,
Ron Goninan
------------------------------------------------------

After reading this email you sent to Patrick McCarthy and seeing what you have done past and present on the Internet you are a "poster child" for all that is wrong with the MAs today.

 

[Don Roley]

Originally posted by Don Roley
If anything embarrasing is posted, we will see the excuse that he is trying to atone for past sins

Originally posted by paihequan
Yes I admit I have made some mistakes in the past and those mistakes have been addressed with the person or persons they concerned and have been resolved. I, like you, need and am working on a few things myself.

I can't read the future, but I can read e-budo and see a pattern of behavior.

If perhaps this time you are truely trying to reform your ways, you may want to take some advice. A lot of people would perhaps be more willing to forgive your past behavior if you showed an honest effort to change your ways and showed some sort of remorse for what you had done in the past with your actions instead of what seems to be just lip service.

After all the trouble you now say you need to atone for that happened because of your internet presence, I would think that you should be as scared of getting on line as an alchoholic would of taking a job as a bartender. The world really does not need another person on the internet. If I were in your position, I would consider just getting off line for a good long time to get away from the whole problem. The world will survive without you and the time alone will allow you to think without distractions and temptaitions to return to your old behavior.

You admit that you did wrong. You do not seem to act very reformed. Old habits die hard, but if you truelly are trying to reform you need to make a bigger effort before many of us will even start to take what you say seriously. So if you admit what RyuShiKan says is true, then do not be mad when he brings it up but rather redoule your efforts to make amends to the world. After the hell that went on at e-budo, you really have to expect people to remember and look at you like you have not reformed. You have to show that you are reformed, and to do that you need to acknowledge what you have done and take responsibility for it.

So accept that RyuShiKan will bring up your past. It happened and people have a right to know what you did before they make a judgement about you. You need to prove that you know you did bad, but are willing to break with your past behavior and prove with your actions that you have changed.