Who Deserves A Black Belt?

[Kirk]

I've heard many talk about what's to be expected of a black belt.
In today's western world (at least) there's varying types of
martial arts. From mostly sporting, sport only, street fighting,
pure art, and pure health (tai chi chi?).

Martial arts is one of the few arts that is so accepting. One with
no skill can excel beyond their current abilities given time, and
training. But with the many facets of people, not all black belts
can have the same capabilities. We don't all have the same type
of abilities in life, yet we can all learn given the right media.

A 60 yr old female (most often) can't be as good at self defense
as a 25 yr old single male with strong athletic ability. Some take
their arts from a strong combative, incessant training, combative
view point. Some might just want to defend themselves better
than they currently can. When testing, this can be taken into
account. We can't all move the same.

When an instructor awards a black belt, his reputation is on the
line. Would he be reluctant to give a b.b. to the ... I guess
"casual martial artist" would be a good term? We all come from
so many different walks of life, we have different levels of
committment that we can apply ... should black belt imply "bad
***", and "bad ***" only?

 

[fist of fury]

I think the biggest problem with the BB is the hype surrounding it. It seems most people assume that a BB has to be a bad *** and if not people are disappointed. To me a BB represents someone who has learned the basics of thier art and are proficient in the basics of thier system. I think that's one reason why alot of people avoid getting thier BB is fear of not living up to other's expectations. Getting a BB also varies from system to system as far as expectations and time constraints not every system is the same. I do think that an instructor should consider carefully who he awards a BB to since that instructors reputation is on the line.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by fist of fury
I do think that an instructor should consider carefully who he awards a BB to since that instructors reputation is on the line.

I don't know ... the 60 yr old woman that was studying in my
school .. she wouldn't have necessarily had the ability to take out
a brutal attack by a really big guy, but I think she could handle
herself 1) better than MANY women her age and 2) better than
she could before she started training. She can perform the basics
well for someone of her age and gender ..but nowhere near as
well as the 29 yr old b.b. assistant instructor at my school. If
she becomes just as knowledgeable in the art, and can perform
everything required of the belt ... I say give her one ... it's a major
accomplishment on her part, even though she may look sloppy,
or slow to the fittest guy in class. He might even know twice as
much as she, because he can apply principles and rules better in
his own movement and examination of other styles, but that
doesn't make her journey any less costly TO HER.

 

[Matt Stone]

Kirk -

Using your sigline as a guide, imagine what she would be like had she started training at 50, or 40, or 30, or 20...

If she meets the criteria for the test, then she gets the belt. I think the problem is that too many schools have "liquid" testing criteria, and standards of performance are not adhered to.

While we have had older folks start up in Yiliquan, they have never graded too highly, nor stuck with it too long. That isn't to say that you can't do Yili into your advanced years, just that the standards of training at the early stages are extremely rigorous. It would be very hard for the typical, sedentary, out of shape sextagenarian to earn a Senior grade in Yili due to the amount of punishment they are going to have to go through to get there.

That's not to say that every Yili Senior gets regular a$$ beatings like I do (I'm "special" ). Far from it. I know of at least 3 folks that didn't get quite as deeply into the "crash test dummy" phase of training as I have. But the standards of performance, the requirements of knowledge (what you are supposed to know) aren't fudged on... I could talk further on other tests where people didn't know all the material but were promoted due to skill and understanding, but those were special cases where the individual exceeded the standard for the grade they were testing for, so I don't think that applies here.

Let the woman have it. It means she can perform the basics well enough that you don't have to talk her (or any other student) through it to do them.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[KanoLives]

To me a black belt means I can finally start learning the art I am studying. Now that is not all it means to me but inregards to this topic. I think if someone has put the time, blood, sweat yada yada, and can proficiently demonstrate their knowledge of the art and continue to pass this knowledge why shouldn't they get a black belt? Regardless of age, gender, race yada yada. If it is someone who is 60 or 90. And just because they have the b.b. doesn't mean they have to be a super human *** kickin machine. The black belt should be a symbol of knowledge and wisdom. At least that's how I look at it. Not oh this guy has a b.b. he could probably punch through a brick wall and take on 100 attackers. Remember back in the day they never used belts as rank they were there to hold up the person's pants. After having the belt for so long it just got more dirty as time passed. Symbolizing knowledge and wisdom. Not superhumaness.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by ChineseKempoAL
After having the belt for so long it just got more dirty as time passed. Symbolizing knowledge and wisdom. Not superhumaness.

:asian:

No, people really did wash their belts, along with the rest of their clothes, back in "ancient times..." :lol:

Common myth and common reference to it. But the point you were trying to illustrate with that reference is well taken...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[KanoLives]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
No, people really did wash their belts, along with the rest of their clothes, back in "ancient times..." :lol:

Common myth and common reference to it. But the point you were trying to illustrate with that reference is well taken...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

:rofl: You mean people really bathed back then. Come on you're kiddin right? Just jokin with ya. Glad to see the point I was makin was clear though.

:asian:

 

[tarabos]

here's the way i see it. if you own a school, or just instruct a few students, and you give out blackbelts to people, then it's up to you to decide who deserves one and why. if someone has a problem with that, then they can either come to your school and do something about it, or shut their traps and go worry about their own martial arts dealings.

there will never be any set standard to who "deserves" a belt, i doubt there ever was.

 

[dearnis.com]

with all the arts and all the schools it isn't as though the belt levels mean the same thing, even in the same area.
When it comes down to it I really only care about those ranks I have signed off on; otherwise it just isnt my concern.

 

[MountainSage]

My instructor told me about a BB with this statement, It's not about the ability to kick and punch or defend yourself it is about the ability to control your body and emotions when place under extreme hardship. A BB is not about others, but about self. It's understanding you can't control others, so learn to control yourself. You can be a fighter or BB, your really can't be both because they are polar opposites.

Mountain Sage

 

[A.R.K.]

here's the way i see it. if you own a school, or just instruct a few students, and you give out blackbelts to people, then it's up to you to decide who deserves one and why. if someone has a problem with that, then they can either come to your school and do something about it, or shut their traps and go worry about their own martial arts dealings.

there will never be any set standard to who "deserves" a belt, i doubt there ever was

tarabos that was simple and well put. Not only was there never any standard, there never could be. You would have to have every organization/style/system come into agreement on what the standard should be. And that simply is not going to happen.

with all the arts and all the schools it isn't as though the belt levels mean the same thing, even in the same area.

Well said.

My instructor told me about a BB with this statement, It's not about the ability to kick and punch or defend yourself it is about the ability to control your body and emotions when place under extreme hardship. A BB is not about others, but about self. It's understanding you can't control others, so learn to control yourself. You can be a fighter or BB, your really can't be both because they are polar opposites.

MS, I understand where your coming from here. I feel that one doesn't need to be an artist to be good at defending him/herself. Just a thought.

:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by tarabos
here's the way i see it. if you own a school, or just instruct a few students, and you give out blackbelts to people, then it's up to you to decide who deserves one and why. if someone has a problem with that, then they can either come to your school and do something about it, or shut their traps and go worry about their own martial arts dealings.

there will never be any set standard to who "deserves" a belt, i doubt there ever was.

I second that!

 

[MartialArtist]

A person who trains twice a week for a year paying $500.

 

[A.R.K.]

A person who trains twice a week for a year paying $500.

Wow! What system would allow that?

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
A person who trains twice a week for a year paying $500.

only $500?

 

[Wmarden]

maybe that 500 is per week

 

[tonbo]

I think that a person deseves a Black Belt if their mommy comes in and complains to the owner/head instructor of the school that their child really does train hard at home and "should be a Black Belt by now".:rofl:

But seriously.

I think anyone can *earn* a Black Belt, if they stick with it. I'm living proof of that. But "deserve" to me is a loaded term. That sounds like somehow the person is trying to get something based not on actual merit, but on other factors. Kinda like saying, "Hey!! How come *She* got her Black Belt before I did? We started studying at the same time, and I'm only a Brown!! No fair! I deserve to get my Black, too!!" "Maybe, but she has been practicing, and has been to class more than once a week, where you have come to class once a month". Stuff like that.

Now, *uppercuts*, on the other hand.....hey, I *deserve* a bunch of those....and I am usually obliged by the other students in my class......

Peace--

 

[Despairbear]

I have always felt that aBB or any rank for that matter should have a set standard, you either make that standard or you don't. I don't think it should matter if a person has been studying for 80 years if they do not meet the standard they do not advance. I also feel that not all students will make the highest of ranks, some people will never have the skill required no matter how hard they train or try. It can be harsh but I feel that we are not all equal in ability.



Despair Bear