New Lineage Question

[wingchun100]

The first Wing Chun school I attended was in the Ip Ching lineage. When I was there, I learned all 3 empty hand forms and the wooden dummy form.

Then I switched to the Leung Sheung lineage. As of this writing, the Sifu in this lineage has me working on Sil Lum Tao and Chum Kiu. He told me I should also practice on the dummy...not just the form, but also just improvised play. I was about to start playing the dummy form the other day when it hit me: the Leung Sheung lineage probably plays the dummy much differently than what I have been doing, and I haven't been shown that yet.

So then the question came to me: should I keep practicing Biu Jee and Mook Jong the way I already know? Should I hold off on it since, in this Sifu's eyes, I am now at the "Chum Kiu" level? Or would it be better to practice them so I can at least keep the forms fresh in my mind?

I reached out to Sifu about this question, and I am eager to hear his answer. However, I was just curious what any of the instructors here might advise a lineage transplant student to do. Obviously in my case, the only answer that matters is what my Sifu tells me.

Still, sometimes I like to pose these situations to others to inspire conversation.

 

[wckf92]

My .02 is to not practice the stuff from your previously lineage. Too much divergence out there in WC Land...

 

[geezer]

. As of this writing, the Sifu in this lineage has me working on Sil Lum Tao and Chum Kiu. He told me I should also practice on the dummy...not just the form, but also just improvised play....
...So then the question came to me: should I keep practicing Biu Jee and Mook Jong the way I already know?

If your sifu is busy, talk to your si-hings. Tell them that Sifu told you to play on the dummy, ask them to share some good drills appropriate for your level. Then try to do it with the kind of energy and "flavor" of your current lineage. Since your sifu told you to go ahead, that's what you should do, right?

 

[wingchun100]

If your sifu is busy, talk to your si-hings. Tell them that Sifu told you to play on the dummy, ask them to share some good drills appropriate for your level. Then try to do it with the kind of energy and "flavor" of your current lineage. Since your sifu told you to go ahead, that's what you should do, right?

Well, that is what I am unclear on, and why I reached out to him. (He is usually pretty quick to respond; I just posted this while I was waiting for an answer.) I want to make sure he meant I can go ahead with the form. If he meant just do improvised stuff, then I will hold off on the form itself.

My Sihings are much harder to reach than my Sifu. Also, not for nothing, but I am not sure if any of them even learned the dummy form. I can certainly try reaching out though.

 

[KPM]

Have you been taught various drills and such to practice outside of just doing the forms? Think about how those could be done on the dummy using the same mechanics from Leung Sheung WC.

 

[wingchun100]

Got my answer by the way. Sifu said to practice whatever I like. The epiphany is easily seeing and proving the structural worth of the way you do the forms. Then, in what I think is the most important part of the response, he said, "Your level is determined by understanding and application."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The first Wing Chun school I attended was in the Ip Ching lineage. When I was there, I learned all 3 empty hand forms and the wooden dummy form.

Then I switched to the Leung Sheung lineage. As of this writing, the Sifu in this lineage has me working on Sil Lum Tao and Chum Kiu. He told me I should also practice on the dummy...not just the form, but also just improvised play. I was about to start playing the dummy form the other day when it hit me: the Leung Sheung lineage probably plays the dummy much differently than what I have been doing, and I haven't been shown that yet.

So then the question came to me: should I keep practicing Biu Jee and Mook Jong the way I already know? Should I hold off on it since, in this Sifu's eyes, I am now at the "Chum Kiu" level? Or would it be better to practice them so I can at least keep the forms fresh in my mind?

I reached out to Sifu about this question, and I am eager to hear his answer. However, I was just curious what any of the instructors here might advise a lineage transplant student to do. Obviously in my case, the only answer that matters is what my Sifu tells me.

Still, sometimes I like to pose these situations to others to inspire conversation.

I would just treat them as separate arts, for now. I have a student who has a background in Shotokan Karate. He sometimes does his Shotokan kata as part of his warm-up, instead of the ones I teach. I don't think it does any harm. There may be more of an issue in your case, since they may be more closely connected, but I don't think practicing can do any real harm before you learn the new version.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Just a random comment here. I don't study Wing Chun, but I very much want a Wing Chun dummy. I'm not sure how useful it would be, but I still want it. No place to put it, but I still want it.

 

[Juany118]

Just a random comment here. I don't study Wing Chun, but I very much want a Wing Chun dummy. I'm not sure how useful it would be, but I still want it. No place to put it, but I still want it.

FYI, They do have free standing ones that take up about as much space as a free standing heavy bag. When I get the time, and money, I was going to make one actually. It won't be "traditional" because the body will be PVC (not schedule 40, I have a hook up that can get me the stuff they use for underground sewer lines.) The money will come in on the arms. There are directions on the web for making one with PVC arms but I want "real" arms and will be buying them.

 

[KPM]

Just a random comment here. I don't study Wing Chun, but I very much want a Wing Chun dummy. I'm not sure how useful it would be, but I still want it. No place to put it, but I still want it.

This is where I got mine:
Best Wooden Dummy : Portable Wooden Dummies : Martial Arts Training Gear : Bruce Lee : Spinning Dummy : TheWarrior.com

 

[Gerry Seymour]

FYI, They do have free standing ones that take up about as much space as a free standing heavy bag. When I get the time, and money, I was going to make one actually. It won't be "traditional" because the body will be PVC (not schedule 40, I have a hook up that can get me the stuff they use for underground sewer lines.) The money will come in on the arms. There are directions on the web for making one with PVC arms but I want "real" arms and will be buying them.

I've looked at a few, and thought I'd like to build the whole thing. It would take a ton of work, so I probably won't until I retire, if I ever do. But it has always seemed like a great woodworking project, very different from any I've done. No fine joinery, and much heavier lumber to work with.

(When I read your post, I hear the "I have a hook up" part spoken in the voice of Joe Jr. from "While You Were Sleeping".)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is where I got mine:
Best Wooden Dummy : Portable Wooden Dummies : Martial Arts Training Gear : Bruce Lee : Spinning Dummy : TheWarrior.com

You, sir, are enabling.

(They need a website upgrade. It was many clicks before I found the page with all the models shown.)

 

[Juany118]

You, sir, are enabling.

(They need a website upgrade. It was many clicks before I found the page with all the models shown.)

On both points. Lol.

That said if I ever say "screw it don't have the time" to making one, probably look here. I wish I could justify a full wood one but... Yeah wife would kill me.

Home

 

[Nobody Important]

In my opinion, practicing form makes you good at practicing form. I never believed that the wooden dummy was a necessary part of Wing Chun training, or for that matter, any other art. If you want to practice on it do so. What you practice is secondary to the practicality of any skill obtained from the practice. Sparring will always be the most practical exercise.

 

[Juany118]

In my opinion, practicing form makes you good at practicing form. I never believed that the wooden dummy was a necessary part of Wing Chun training, or for that matter, any other art. If you want to practice on it do so. What you practice is secondary to the practicality of any skill obtained from the practice. Sparring will always be the most practical exercise.

I look at it also as a tool to assist, a bit, with shadow boxing (practicing proper range to target etc) and tbh conditioning of the limbs. I can only make at best, 2 classes a week atm, so I tend to do a lot of work at home.

 

[wckf92]

Just a random comment here. I don't study Wing Chun, but I very much want a Wing Chun dummy. I'm not sure how useful it would be, but I still want it. No place to put it, but I still want it.

Have you ever used one?

 

[Nobody Important]

Have you ever used one?

They make cool looking coat racks

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Have you ever used one?

Nope. I have no reason to believe it would be useful, given my lack of experience. Still want the danged thing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

They make cool looking coat racks

See, now I have someplace to put it - right next to the door!

 

[KPM]

In my opinion, practicing form makes you good at practicing form. I never believed that the wooden dummy was a necessary part of Wing Chun training, or for that matter, any other art. If you want to practice on it do so. What you practice is secondary to the practicality of any skill obtained from the practice. Sparring will always be the most practical exercise.

I agree. But I have found that a great many of both the JKD drills and TWC drills can be practiced directly on the dummy. This is very helpful when you don't have any other partner around!