Ba Gua and Wing Chun

Nobody Important

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This is a long shot, as it is not a well known topic, but I'd thought I'd ask just in case anyone has ever heard about it.

There is an obscure hypothesis concerning a relationship between Wing Chun and Bagua Zhang. The primary point of interest is an obscure art known as Se Ying Diu Sau (Snake Form Artful/Mongoose Hands) it is an art that was passed on to a selected few by Leung Tien Chiu, founder of modern Fut Gar. The art was taught to him by his uncle Leung Sil Jung, and is said to have roots in proto-Choy Gar Kuen. It is a very secretive style that is still being taught by Leung Tien Chiu's nephew or grandson. I have seen bits of it and do have some further information which I will post later.

Anyways there is supposedly a Bagua connection of some sort and there are stories about this snake system being known by Leung Bok Chou prior to him leaving the Choy family to study Wing Chun under his wife & father in law, Yim Wing Chun & Yim Si.

As mentioned I have seen parts of the system, as I also studied Choy Gar under the Wong family of Toisan, who hired Leung Tien Chiu as a boxing coach. The system of Se Ying Diu Sau looks like a weird blend of Bagua Zhang & Wing Chun. Just wondering if by chance anyone else has ever heard of it. Elements of it can be seen in Leung's Fut Gar, as he incorporated some of it in its development, though it is an old & separate method. I know of no verified videos of this snake art.
 
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Eric_H

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I've studied two families of Bagua, and two families worth of wing chun. I'm reminded of ye old Mainers' expression "You can't get there from here, best go back the way you came."

That said, I'd like to see more of whatever this art is.
 
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I've studied two families of Bagua, and two families worth of wing chun. I'm reminded of ye old Mainers' expression "You can't get there from here, best go back the way you came."

That said, I'd like to see more of whatever this art is.
It's not really a combination of Wing Chun & Bagua, it's more of the term used to describe this snake method which is said to be the influence of snake in Wing Chun, who's origins are based on proto - Choy Gar, with Bagua influence (now I don't know if it's Bagua Zhang as some claim or just Bagua theory). I remember once seeing a website that supposedly did this method, claiming it's origins from India. I don't think it was legitimate, they had no video, just stills. But the history was not the same as I have, mine states southern China, not India. I wish I knew more myself, but information is hard to come by and the current gate keeper is very tight lipped. I have a very small amount on the system I will post soon, including the name of the lineage head once I scrounge up my notes.
 

ob1

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Scattered around I have read different accounts stating that Leung Bok Cho orignially learnt Cho Gar and subsequently learnt Wing Chun. Think this a worthwhile line of research for some one to follow through on. The scattered stories are consistent with this Leung Bok Cho likely to be the same person. Any further information would be of interes

www.southern5.com/Choy.html From memory there is a bit here about this
A Lesson in Patience Also cho gar and LBC mentioned in here. The stories are said to eventuate from the China Yuen Kay San line.

Anyway hope this is of interest
 

wckf92

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I would also like to hear more , since I've seen some 'genetic markers' of this (I think)
 

KPM

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Does anybody know where can i find wing chun school in cdo philippines?

You need to make your question a separate post of its own rather than putting it within someone else's thread. You are more likely to get a response that way.
 

wingchun100

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Man, I wish I knew enough about Ba Gua to make a worthwhile comment. LOL

I will say that I am always intrigued to see how arts are tied together, how one might have sprung from the other.
 

Xue Sheng

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This is a long shot, as it is not a well known topic, but I'd thought I'd ask just in case anyone has ever heard about it.

There is an obscure hypothesis concerning a relationship between Wing Chun and Bagua Zhang. The primary point of interest is an obscure art known as Se Ying Diu Sau (Snake Form Artful/Mongoose Hands) it is an art that was passed on to a selected few by Leung Tien Chiu, founder of modern Fut Gar. The art was taught to him by his uncle Leung Sil Jung, and is said to have roots in proto-Choy Gar Kuen. It is a very secretive style that is still being taught by Leung Tien Chiu's nephew or grandson. I have seen bits of it and do have some further information which I will post later.

Anyways there is supposedly a Bagua connection of some sort and there are stories about this snake system being known by Leung Bok Chou prior to him leaving the Choy family to study Wing Chun under his wife & father in law, Yim Wing Chun & Yim Si.

As mentioned I have seen parts of the system, as I also studied Choy Gar under the Wong family of Toisan, who hired Leung Tien Chiu as a boxing coach. The system of Se Ying Diu Sau looks like a weird blend of Bagua Zhang & Wing Chun. Just wondering if by chance anyone else has ever heard of it. Elements of it can be seen in Leung's Fut Gar, as he incorporated some of it in its development, though it is an old & separate method. I know of no verified videos of this snake art.

I have my doubts here of a Bagua connection if this was supposed to come from Leung Bok Chao (17711859?) since it sounds like he knew the snake system prior to his leaving the Choy family. The reason is the years do not line up. The founder of Baguazhang is Dong Haichuan (1797 or 1813 1882) Also it is fairly well known who Dong Haichuan's students were. So if it was not learned from Dong Haichuan then it would have had to come from one of his students and Leung Bok Chao is already 26 to 42 years older than Dong Haichuan. Therefore he would be considerably older than any of Dong's students
 

KPM

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Man, I wish I knew enough about Ba Gua to make a worthwhile comment. LOL

I will say that I am always intrigued to see how arts are tied together, how one might have sprung from the other.

I have a good friend that is VERY good at Ba Gua. It never seemed to have much in common with Wing Chun to me.
 

wingchun100

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I have a good friend that is VERY good at Ba Gua. It never seemed to have much in common with Wing Chun to me.

Yeah, I would not know because the only time I saw anyone do Ba Gua was at this school that was more like Wushu, with everything done with more flash and acrobatic style. I have never gotten a good impression of what it is like.
 

geezer

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I never thought of WC as seeming anything like Ba Gua. I have seen some functional parallels with Hsing-I, but Ba Gua? Not really.
 

Xue Sheng

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Yeah, I would not know because the only time I saw anyone do Ba Gua was at this school that was more like Wushu, with everything done with more flash and acrobatic style. I have never gotten a good impression of what it is like.

There are others to look for, but look for videos of He Jinbao, Yin Style Baguazhang or Di Guoyong, Liang Style Baguazhang or Liu Jing Ru, Cheng Style Baguazhang
 

yak sao

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I never thought of WC as seeming anything like Ba Gua. I have seen some functional parallels with Hsing-I, but Ba Gua? Not really.

I agree with your Hsing I comnent but I tend to see a bit of pa kwa within some of the dummy footwork and the tri podal dummy work.
 
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Just so people aren't getting the wrong impression, I'll repeat.

"It's not really a combination of Wing Chun & Bagua, it's more of the term used to describe this snake method which is said to be the influence of snake in Wing Chun, who's origins are based on proto - Choy Gar, with Bagua influence (now I don't know if it's Bagua Zhang as some claim or just Bagua theory)".
 

Xue Sheng

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Just so people aren't getting the wrong impression, I'll repeat.

"It's not really a combination of Wing Chun & Bagua, it's more of the term used to describe this snake method which is said to be the influence of snake in Wing Chun, who's origins are based on proto - Choy Gar, with Bagua influence (now I don't know if it's Bagua Zhang as some claim or just Bagua theory)".

What years are we talking about?

Is there a video of this someplace?
 
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