My cross-training journey

[gyoja]

Worked on kicking fundamentals, I suck but I'm improving.

What specifically did you work on?

 

[O'Malley89]

@gyoja We've done basic kicking drills for the front kick, side kick and roundhouse kick. The drill was 0 > chamber > kick > chamber > 0.

I'm slowly ingraining some muscle memory, but I'm particularly struggling with roundhouses because I have terrible side-to-side flexibility and my left hip feels too tense and closed. I also probably lack some strength in the muscles responsible for straddling the legs, if this makes sense.

 

[gyoja]

@gyoja We've done basic kicking drills for the front kick, side kick and roundhouse kick. The drill was 0 > chamber > kick > chamber > 0.

I'm slowly ingraining some muscle memory, but I'm particularly struggling with roundhouses because I have terrible side-to-side flexibility and my left hip feels too tense and closed. I also probably lack some strength in the muscles responsible for straddling the legs, if this makes sense.

It makes sense to me. Stretch, stretch, then stretch some more. This will make the kicks easier. Just like striking, you will develop skill through good repetitions. Make sure to stay on the balls of your feet, especially on the plant foot.

 

[Gerry Seymour10]

Some thoughts on my last training sessions.

Eskrima
- Worked on kicking fundamentals, I suck but I'm improving.
- I feel like I'm still reaching out too much sometimes.
- We practiced a basic jab-cross-lead hook combo and the guy holding the focus mitts complained about my hook being really heavy. I was happy, also because it was not particularly taxing, but coach said I'm too open.

Nippon Kempo
- Worked on parries (yay!) with some joint locks and then we sparred.
- Last time I got nailed too many times so I made a mental note to tighten my guard and not jump in like an idiot. It made an enormous difference: I was hit surprisingly few times and managed to parry/block most of what was coming. Footwork also helped but I need to work on angles and entries.
- I absolutely need to work on my cardio because I was gassed after the third partner swap.
- I'm relatively hard to throw and I attribute that to my aikido training. My partners tried hip throws, foot sweeps and reaps but they just bounced off me.
- I've experimented with a clinch entry that I had posted on here some time ago. So far it seems to work! I still need to figure out how to bring my aikido to that ruleset (or what to do in the clinch in general).
- Yet, I've been able to nail some cool stuff like clinch > standing arm lock > sokumen iriminage; and the aikido classic: clinch > back take > suplex.
- So far I'm doing well against guys who've been there for a while but I have more overall martial arts experience than my sparring partners. It's good because I can focus on the basics and experiment with stuff but I want to know how I fare against the instructors and competitors of the group.
- I've got lots of wacky ideas to play with next time.

I think the aiki mechanics you’ve trained give you some subtle defenses that work well against standing grappling, especially when your opponent doesn’t have that training.

 

[Gerry Seymour10]

I can imagine that. The problem with wrist locks in NK is that both contestants wear boxing gloves so they're almost undoable. It also limits your options for throws as you can't grip. I tried a sacrifice throw in sparring and only nailed the sacrifice part, because my hand slipped. But yeah there are aikido techniques that could be set up from the 2-on-1.

I’ve used “kempo” gloves at times for this reason. They are fairly padded, but you still have the ability to grab and grip.

 

[gyoja]

I’ve used “kempo” gloves at times for this reason. They are fairly padded, but you still have the ability to grab and grip.

I use these as well. They definitely help with throws and joint locks.

 

[O'Malley89]

I think the aiki mechanics you’ve trained give you some subtle defenses that work well against standing grappling, especially when your opponent doesn’t have that training.

I'm not sure whether I'd be able to defend against a decent grappler but I've certainly developed a natural resistance to unbalancing and structure deformation.

I’ve used “kempo” gloves at times for this reason. They are fairly padded, but you still have the ability to grab and grip.

That would be cool to try but unfortunately I'll have to stick to the standard gear for now! It's cool to try and think of what I could use under that ruleset though!

Quick update: trained eskrima today and did stick and unarmed sparring against competitors. I'm getting better at stick sparring but the unarmed one (against an experienced sanda competitor) showed a lot of flaws in my form. I have good instincts and power, so I sometimes get lucky and do well against inexperienced people, but my form is still a beginner's, which translates into lots of openings and telegraphing that skilled opponents can exploit. It's good because now I know that if I polish my form I should make good progress.

 

[O'Malley89]

Resurrecting this thread. Stuff happened and I took a two-year hiatus. Finally got around to training again (in Nippon Kempo, which is just clackedockling with extra steps) and managed to get two sessions in a row since forever.

1st session
First serious sports training session in two years. Had had McDonald's a few hours before. The guys were prepping for an international tournament. I barely survived, my fitness level is abysmal. Felt pretty bad during and after.

[Missed two sessions]

2nd session
Once again, I couln't follow the rhythm, even for basic bodyweight exercises, and had to take breaks. We moved on to technique drills, then light sparring. I got a couple of throws and strikes in, and could take the back of my partners in standup grappling, but I understandably suck at everything, and I was gassed very early. I managed to successfully apply the technique we had just drilled, before failing almost everything else. At the end I sparred the gym wonderkid and he effortlessly tagged me multiple times. I then decided to get him in the clinch to see if I could do anything. I covered up and approached, and he just flew away, bought some milk and came back to punch me.

3rd session
I took it a bit easier on the physical conditioning part and managed to finish it without taking breaks. Still can't accept that I can't do a few push-ups in a row (used to play sports at pro level but that was 16 years ago). But I already feel like my body is waking up a bit. We did some stand-up grappling drills (yay) including arm throws (yayay) and joint locks (yayayay).

At the end of the session, we did ground grappling. This was my first time ever. We started from a back-to-back sitting position and had to try and submit each other. My partner was the guy who leads the physical conditioning part: he's intermediate, shorter but athletic, with a background in karate and a competitive NK record. So he started by trying to unbalance me from his back, and I had absolutely no idea what to do. I just figured out that I'd rather stay on top and have him deal with my weight while I look for an opening. His knee was in the way, I kind of rolled it away and got (terrible) side control, then somehow ended up holding him in (terrible) kesa gatame. He tried to escape and I almost took his back, then he escaped again through technique and really high intensity. Then he got on top and he really tried to blast through my defense, but when I felt that I was falling back I just rolled and threw him in tomoe nage. He quickly got back up and he finally submitted me with an armbar and an ankle lock. Coach was super enthusiastic and said that once I learn some basics I'll be a problem (I'm quite proud of that!). He replied "OF COURSE HE CAN GRAPPLE HE KNOWS AIKIDO!", which shows the art still has some street cred, and that he never Googled it. What really struck me is that I managed to withstand a very intense roll and he didn't feel that strong, and at the end of the round HE was the one gassed. He's still somewhat of a beginner grappler, but I suspect my previous training made me feel heavier and stronger to him because, to a small extent, I could send my weight to him and ward off his pushes. I'm sure there's something there.

I really like the atmosphere of the dojo, and the training is just what I needed from the fitness and technical POVs. I'll progressively introduce some supplemental training (e.g. cardio) to optimize but I don't want to burn out. Let's see where I end up in my journey of trying to be a competent fighter as an aikidoka. In the end, I'm having fun.

Notes:
- need to work on cardio;
- I overreach with my punches, need to move further;
- I'm taller so I tend to rely on my reach too much, which makes me overreach. I'm actually not trying to find superior angles, I just rely on reach and timing, trying to outbox from where they can't touch me. This makes my attacks wide, slow and ineffective and I struggle against anyone with decent technique;
- I should work more on parries, defense, covering up and safely moving within correct distance;
- my kicks are horrible;
- in general, I still need to get comfortable with the common situations that happen in a NK fight, once I'm less lost I'll have more brainpower to take initiatives;
- so far we've all been using the same clinch position (left elbow control + right neck control), I'm sure there are some aikido opportunities in there;
- also, pushing on the head is legal, which makes irimi nage and shomen ate legal, I want to try them at some point.

 

[drop bear103]

Resurrecting this thread. Stuff happened and I took a two-year hiatus. Finally got around to training again (in Nippon Kempo, which is just clackedockling with extra steps) and managed to get two sessions in a row since forever.

1st session
First serious sports training session in two years. Had had McDonald's a few hours before. The guys were prepping for an international tournament. I barely survived, my fitness level is abysmal. Felt pretty bad during and after.

[Missed two sessions]

2nd session
Once again, I couln't follow the rhythm, even for basic bodyweight exercises, and had to take breaks. We moved on to technique drills, then light sparring. I got a couple of throws and strikes in, and could take the back of my partners in standup grappling, but I understandably suck at everything, and I was gassed very early. I managed to successfully apply the technique we had just drilled, before failing almost everything else. At the end I sparred the gym wonderkid and he effortlessly tagged me multiple times. I then decided to get him in the clinch to see if I could do anything. I covered up and approached, and he just flew away, bought some milk and came back to punch me.

3rd session
I took it a bit easier on the physical conditioning part and managed to finish it without taking breaks. Still can't accept that I can't do a few push-ups in a row (used to play sports at pro level but that was 16 years ago). But I already feel like my body is waking up a bit. We did some stand-up grappling drills (yay) including arm throws (yayay) and joint locks (yayayay).

At the end of the session, we did ground grappling. This was my first time ever. We started from a back-to-back sitting position and had to try and submit each other. My partner was the guy who leads the physical conditioning part: he's intermediate, shorter but athletic, with a background in karate and a competitive NK record. So he started by trying to unbalance me from his back, and I had absolutely no idea what to do. I just figured out that I'd rather stay on top and have him deal with my weight while I look for an opening. His knee was in the way, I kind of rolled it away and got (terrible) side control, then somehow ended up holding him in (terrible) kesa gatame. He tried to escape and I almost took his back, then he escaped again through technique and really high intensity. Then he got on top and he really tried to blast through my defense, but when I felt that I was falling back I just rolled and threw him in tomoe nage. He quickly got back up and he finally submitted me with an armbar and an ankle lock. Coach was super enthusiastic and said that once I learn some basics I'll be a problem (I'm quite proud of that!). He replied "OF COURSE HE CAN GRAPPLE HE KNOWS AIKIDO!", which shows the art still has some street cred, and that he never Googled it. What really struck me is that I managed to withstand a very intense roll and he didn't feel that strong, and at the end of the round HE was the one gassed. He's still somewhat of a beginner grappler, but I suspect my previous training made me feel heavier and stronger to him because, to a small extent, I could send my weight to him and ward off his pushes. I'm sure there's something there.

I really like the atmosphere of the dojo, and the training is just what I needed from the fitness and technical POVs. I'll progressively introduce some supplemental training (e.g. cardio) to optimize but I don't want to burn out. Let's see where I end up in my journey of trying to be a competent fighter as an aikidoka. In the end, I'm having fun.

Notes:
- need to work on cardio;
- I overreach with my punches, need to move further;
- I'm taller so I tend to rely on my reach too much, which makes me overreach. I'm actually not trying to find superior angles, I just rely on reach and timing, trying to outbox from where they can't touch me. This makes my attacks wide, slow and ineffective and I struggle against anyone with decent technique;
- I should work more on parries, defense, covering up and safely moving within correct distance;
- my kicks are horrible;
- in general, I still need to get comfortable with the common situations that happen in a NK fight, once I'm less lost I'll have more brainpower to take initiatives;
- so far we've all been using the same clinch position (left elbow control + right neck control), I'm sure there are some aikido opportunities in there;
- also, pushing on the head is legal, which makes irimi nage and shomen ate legal, I want to try them at some point.

A big advantage of sub wrestling is that there is so much content by quality guys on the internet that you can generally get an answer to all your questions or issues.

So you don't end at the experience of your instructor anymore.

So if you wanted Aikido positions or ideas. You can jump on to tutorials that will put you in positions that get you half way there.

I am thinking arm drags, two on one Russian and throw bys.

These should get you into what I am going to call Aikido scrambles. Where people are fighting for limb attacks.

They didn't explain how to strip the collar tie. But if you can work that out. You have this nice back take.

51K views · 2.2K reactions | Send your opponent flying with this 2-on-1 takedown dilemma! Like and follow for more! #jiujitsutechnique #bjjtechnique #judotechnique #takedowns #wrestlejitsu | BSF

Send your opponent flying with this 2-on-1 takedown dilemma! Like and follow for more! #jiujitsutechnique #bjjtechnique #judotechnique #takedowns #wrestlejitsu

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[isshinryuronin]

Welcome back into MA and to martialtalk.

I overreach with my punches, need to move further

As pertaining to strikers: This is very common in untrained fighters and often with trained ones. Three reasons are: 1. Misjudging distance. 2. Overly aggressive. 3. Tendency to want to fight from a "safe" distance.

IMO getting in close gives one a big advantage as most are more comfortable/used to fighting from a distance as much (karate) competition favors this and they kind of freeze up when the opponent gets up-close and personal. I found this true especially against styles that stress deep techniques such as Shotokan and TKD. Early karate fought mainly at close range.

safely moving within correct distance

A good skill. I think that the three things to enable you to do this are: 1. Tactics to create an opening. 2. Timing. 3. Quick explosive movement. Put these together and closing in is much easier.

It wasn't until I was a 2nd degree that I "got it" and it made a huge difference, totally changing my fighting strategy and using a new set of tools. I liked your self-analysis - it should enable you to come back better than ever.

 

[O'Malley89]

A big advantage of sub wrestling is that there is so much content by quality guys on the internet that you can generally get an answer to all your questions or issues.

So you don't end at the experience of your instructor anymore.

So if you wanted Aikido positions or ideas. You can jump on to tutorials that will put you in positions that get you half way there.

I am thinking arm drags, two on one Russian and throw bys.

These should get you into what I am going to call Aikido scrambles. Where people are fighting for limb attacks.

Thanks for this. I won't be going that much for limb attacks: the tactical goal of a lot of aikido techniques is to put pressure on the 7th cervical:

You try to remove the slack so that you can push or pull on the 7th cervical and get the opponent off balance. The unique thing being that you can do it from a distance, and even without hands. Here Seigo Yamaguchi uses the contact with his right shoulder to off-balance the attacker and set up a hip throw (1:14):

They didn't explain how to strip the collar tie. But if you can work that out. You have this nice back take.

51K views · 2.2K reactions | Send your opponent flying with this 2-on-1 takedown dilemma! Like and follow for more! #jiujitsutechnique #bjjtechnique #judotechnique #takedowns #wrestlejitsu | BSF

Send your opponent flying with this 2-on-1 takedown dilemma! Like and follow for more! #jiujitsutechnique #bjjtechnique #judotechnique #takedowns #wrestlejitsu

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I really like these throw-bys! But I still need to figure out what to do once I've taken the back.

Welcome back into MA and to martialtalk.

As pertaining to strikers: This is very common in untrained fighters and often with trained ones. Three reasons are: 1. Misjudging distance. 2. Overly aggressive. 3. Tendency to want to fight from a "safe" distance.

IMO getting in close gives one a big advantage as most are more comfortable/used to fighting from a distance as much (karate) competition favors this and they kind of freeze up when the opponent gets up-close and personal. I found this true especially against styles that stress deep techniques such as Shotokan and TKD. Early karate fought mainly at close range.


A good skill. I think that the three things to enable you to do this are: 1. Tactics to create an opening. 2. Timing. 3. Quick explosive movement. Put these together and closing in is much easier.

It wasn't until I was a 2nd degree that I "got it" and it made a huge difference, totally changing my fighting strategy and using a new set of tools. I liked your self-analysis - it should enable you to come back better than ever.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

 

[O'Malley89]

4th session
We did a more intense conditioning part, then some striking sparring, then some grappling from the clinch.

• By the time we started sparring I was completely gassed out so couldn't "perform".
• I'm too passive in the clinch and, as a consequence, I am always on the back foot, especially when my partner ups the intensity. I do not create problems for my opponent, which makes it harder both on offense and defense. I should focus on being always in movement to give my partner something to think about, then look for openings.
• I should also seize the initiative and push my advantage : I took my partner's back several times but let him regain his footing too easily.
• I am also very slow, I should polish my technique, footwork and general movement. In general, I'm way too static, especially in the clinch (improving my cardio should help).
• My leg got caught a few times, I should find safer ways to kick. Front kicks are ok for now, roundhouses suck.
• I need to get used to the Nippon Kempo ruleset which rewards transitions from grappling to striking (e.g. disengaging from a scramble and going for knee strikes).
• On the positive side I was easily able to do the throws we were shown in drills.
• I also did focus on striking from correct range instead of overreaching. This made me land way more hits, and I could still fall back on outboxing when needed.

How I plan to improve:

1. I should always be moving, especially in the clinch, even if I'm slow.
2. I should try and seize the initiative.
3. I should try to unbalance my partner from the get go and constantly create problems and pressure. Next time I get my partner's back I should go for a takedown (I've already landed some suplexes in sparring before).
4. I should keep working on striking within proper range.

In time I'll add supplementary cardio work and aikido solo conditioning, and I'll also try some aikido setups.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf103]

Overreaching/overcommitting to things and cardio are the things that always seem to pop up when someone returns after a long hiatus. Those should sort themselves out naturally as you get back in form.

 

[Gyakuto102]

Thanks for this. I won't be going that much for limb attacks: the tactical goal of a lot of aikido techniques is to put pressure on the 7th cervical:
View attachment 34026

You try to remove the slack so that you can push or pull on the 7th cervical and get the opponent off balance. The unique thing being that you can do it from a distance, and even without hands. Here Seigo Yamaguchi uses the contact with his right shoulder to off-balance the attacker and set up a hip throw (1:14):

I really like these throw-bys! But I still need to figure out what to do once I've taken the back.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

7th cervical vertebra seems very specific. Is there any particular rational to this?

 

[O'Malley89]

7th cervical vertebra seems very specific. Is there any particular rational to this?

Commonly, we talk about "seizing the opponent's center". I've also heard some teachers talk about seizing or displacing the spine.
The 7th cervical vertebra idea from a late Italian 6th or 7th dan that told us this at a seminar, and I found it quite accurate. Here George Ledyard talks about a related concept (at 11:27) which he says applies to 90% of basic aikido techniques:

 

[drop bear103]

4th session
We did a more intense conditioning part, then some striking sparring, then some grappling from the clinch.

• By the time we started sparring I was completely gassed out so couldn't "perform".
• I'm too passive in the clinch and, as a consequence, I am always on the back foot, especially when my partner ups the intensity. I do not create problems for my opponent, which makes it harder both on offense and defense. I should focus on being always in movement to give my partner something to think about, then look for openings.
• I should also seize the initiative and push my advantage : I took my partner's back several times but let him regain his footing too easily.
• I am also very slow, I should polish my technique, footwork and general movement. In general, I'm way too static, especially in the clinch (improving my cardio should help).
• My leg got caught a few times, I should find safer ways to kick. Front kicks are ok for now, roundhouses suck.
• I need to get used to the Nippon Kempo ruleset which rewards transitions from grappling to striking (e.g. disengaging from a scramble and going for knee strikes).
• On the positive side I was easily able to do the throws we were shown in drills.
• I also did focus on striking from correct range instead of overreaching. This made me land way more hits, and I could still fall back on outboxing when needed.

How I plan to improve:

1. I should always be moving, especially in the clinch, even if I'm slow.
2. I should try and seize the initiative.
3. I should try to unbalance my partner from the get go and constantly create problems and pressure. Next time I get my partner's back I should go for a takedown (I've already landed some suplexes in sparring before).
4. I should keep working on striking within proper range.

In time I'll add supplementary cardio work and aikido solo conditioning, and I'll also try some aikido setups.

Suplexes?

A bit mean.

(I will have a hunt on youtube and try to find some mat returns that are a bit less)

 

[O'Malley89]

Ok I might have gotten the term wrong. I was talking about option 2 in this video:

 

[Gyakuto102]

Commonly, we talk about "seizing the opponent's center". I've also heard some teachers talk about seizing or displacing the spine.
The 7th cervical vertebra idea from a late Italian 6th or 7th dan that told us this at a seminar, and I found it quite accurate. Here George Ledyard talks about a related concept (at 11:27) which he says applies to 90% of basic aikido techniques:

Oh I see, it’s a point that if pressure is applied, topples a standing person due to advantageous leverage.

 

[O'Malley89]

5th and 6th sessions: not much to say, no sparring this time, I'm slowly getting up to speed re fitness.

 

[Holmejr1]

Thanks for the kind words, everyone!

Hahaha good one! When I first asked about their training, they struggled to describe it because while they do train stick fighting, they also incorporate a lot of empty-handed striking and grappling. After the whole explanation was done, I thought "ok they do clackledockling".

Too early to tell obviously, but I've already had to adjust my stance and guard. I'm curious as to whether the conditioning will show, because the head instructor said I had "good structure" (even though I know my technique is abysmal). He did bounce off me on a couple of occasions but I don't want to read too much into that.
Would also be fun to try some throws in sparring but we need to be careful on the wooden floor.

Thanks! First question, then: what do you mean by "almost backwards progression"?

Well, in traditional FMA weapons are taught first and primary with open hand taught over time. Stick to knife to open hand to make it simple. But, every school is different and there are very few FMA only schools, most are hybrid or cross training. IMO, FMA is the original JKD, always absorbing what would keep you alive and discarding what would get you killed.