Multiple Rankings

[Brad Dunne]

I've checked to see if there was anything similiar posted and the closest I found was a post about ranks in a similiar type style and training in that style after a black belt has been achieved. My question is different. In my surfing I came across something that made me say "Hmmm".....................

Learning and advancing to black belt in 4 different disciplines at the same time.

Question!...... Do you think it's possible to be able to do such a thing?

 

[pesilat]

I've checked to see if there was anything similiar posted and the closest I found was a post about ranks in a similiar type style and training in that style after a black belt has been achieved. My question is different. In my surfing I came across something that made me say "Hmmm".....................

Learning and advancing to black belt in 4 different disciplines at the same time.

Question!...... Do you think it's possible to be able to do such a thing?

I think it's possible for a certain type of person but I also think that person is rare. However, I don't think anyone could realistically do it in the same amount of time it would take to reach BB in one system. It wouldn't likely take 4 times as long, either, but it would take a while.

Of course, these days, I guess someone could sign up at 4 different "guaranteed black belt in 2 years" schools and, as long as they paid their dues and (hopefully) showed up to class regularly, they might pull it off BB in 4 systems in 2 years. Would I personally consider them to actually be BB level in any of those systems? No. Do I personally think they'd really have much to offer students? No. Would I personally consider training with someone like that? No. But, on paper, they'd be legitimate.

Mike

 

[arnisador]

Yeah, people do it all the time. Many schools teach multiple arts. I'm studying JKD and BJJ at the same place now. It's commonplace!

 

[pesilat]

Yeah, people do it all the time. Many schools teach multiple arts. I'm studying JKD and BJJ at the same place now. It's commonplace!

But are you studying them both as "primary" pursuits? Or is one your primary and the other supplemental?

Also, two is far more realistic than four (though it's still not an easy thing).

Mike

 

[arnisador]

Actually, both are secondary to my Modern Arnis. But at the school, they're considered complementary and are equally weighted.

But yes, 2 is fewer than 4. Still, I've seen schools that teach aikido + iaido + jodo + kenjutsu, or the like. Some styles of aikido would consider the study of the sword and/or jo part of the style and think of this as 'cheating', but some keep it separate.

Mixing two random arts at two different schools is hard. But if a school mixes them for you, it may not be so bad--that's my point.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have done it in two systems in the same school befor and was trying to study at a different school for my 3rd art but never got the black in that one.

I know that it is possible but I think it should take more than 2 years, but then I guess it depends on what arts and how much an instructor wants out of his students

 

[Mark Barlow]

I've earned Black Belts in Jujutsu, Judo and Aikido and trained under different sensei at the same time but all three arts have so much overlap of theory and application, I viewed it as same church, different pew.

I don't think I could have been successful studying TKD or Karate while training in any of my chosen styles. The mindset seems too different, but that's just me, I'm sure there are some folks who could handle it with no problem.

 

[Brad Dunne]

Perhaps adding the disciplines in question may be beneficial to making a judgement. Just as an add on, the rankings go up into the middle BB ranks.

TKD/TSD/HKD/Judo

 

[arnisador]

Hmmm, TKD, TSD, and HKD are closely related, though some styles have subtle differences in, for example, just exactly how a side kick is thrown, that would goof a person up. If it was all from one instructor, I'd say no big deal--combining TKD adnd HKD, for example, is almost cliche.

Judo is more different, though there can be similarities to HKD, depending on how it's done in your org. It seems to me that the TKD/TSD/HKD part may be no big deal, but adding Judo could mean a lot of extra training time.

 

[bignick]

1 down....2 to go....

 

[still learning]

Hello, You ask is it "possible"? Anyone who puts his mind to it can do anything....do you agree? the question comes why train in 4 different styles at the same time? Some would say better to be a master at one than (can't remember?) ....a little knowledge of everything. But cross training can be a blessing! Ops..(master at one than jack of all trades)..define Jack? Hum!

There are teachers who prefer you remain loyal to one teachings then have four different opinions ever time. But it comes down to each individual person and what is learning. College teaches many different course to all students at the same time. So one can learn different things in a course of a day. (not sure is same for martial arts?).

For the hardcore guys ...go for it.....train hard and long....Aloha

 

[MJS]

I've checked to see if there was anything similiar posted and the closest I found was a post about ranks in a similiar type style and training in that style after a black belt has been achieved. My question is different. In my surfing I came across something that made me say "Hmmm".....................

Learning and advancing to black belt in 4 different disciplines at the same time.

Question!...... Do you think it's possible to be able to do such a thing?

Anything is possible. It may be best though if one waited until they've developed a good base in 1 art first before attempting to take on 2 or more at the same time. I'm doing Kenpo, Arnis and BJJ at the same time, but I didn't start to mix everything until I reached Brown in Kenpo.

Mike

 

[VSanhodo]

Is it possible??????????? I think it is possible for a person to take 20 arts at the same time. doesnt mean they are going to be any good at any of them. Personally I believe a person should find an art to get thier fundamentals. I had a studnet of mine years ago, Now I thought the world of this guy, He came to class about once a week. I always figured he couldnt make it more due to his work schedule. I honeslty thought the guy had a learning disability (Im not trying to be funny). He came to class for two years off and on. It seemd each time he came I had to constantly correct him on the same things over and over and over. He asked me one day when he was going to be ready to test?? I told him the truth and simply said, I honestly didnt know. I asked him point blank, why in his opinion was he having such a hard time learning the basic material. That when he hit me with a bomb shell. He said he was trying to be a well rounded martial artist, as such he was studying not only from me but also studying Aikido, JKD, Shotokan and Arnis all at the sametime under different instructors.
I Told him point blank that I wasnt interested in training him any longer that I felt he ws wasting not only my time but his as well. I truly believe the vast majority of students today want overnight results and again the majority dont want to learn the art ppl simply want to learn how to fight. And all of this is fine, If all you want ot learn to do is fight then go buy a gun.
Personally I feel this is a one of the major problems facing the martial arts today. NOTE how I said martial arts and not the "business of." PPl call it martial arts but in truth are teaching fancy self defense courses under the guise of martial Arts. All most schools are doing today is producing Jack and Jills of all trades and Masters of none.
And thats fine if thats what your after. Me, personally I will stick to being a student of the Martial sciences and will enjoy being a student for the rest of my life, learning the art, learning clean hand not just dirty hand. Fighting is sooooooooo easy, Not fighting is what is really difficult.
Yep, while there may be fewer and fewer ppl who teach, learn and appreciate the classics, the classics will never die. Everything else is merely an off shoot of the classics.
Be it music, Dance or Martial Arts.

thanks

San

 

[searcher]

I suppose that it is possible, but how they would fit that many classes in during the day is beyond my understanding. They would have to start classes at around 5:00 and have one after another until around 9:00. That is a whole bunch of strain on the human body.

I myself have done 2 styles at the same time reaching BB, but they were complimentary to each other, Chito-ryu and Okinawan Kobudo. Then I moved on to other styles(having trained in multiple styles seems to "speed up" the process). But training in 4 at once seems like a stretch.

 

[arnisador]

Why one would want to study 4 arts at once is indeed a good question. For most people, cross-training two should do it, I'd think--a striking art and a grappling art, say.

I also agree with the advice to wait until you have some skill in one art before branching out. Exceptions might be made for very different arts, like doing TKD and Judo at the same time. They shouldn't "interfere" with one another very much.

 

[searcher]

This still begs the question of how many hours in the day do these people have? And on top of that are they superhuman to go through that?

Between my own training and the training of students I am exhausted at the end of the day. I don't know how they do it unless they are going to 4 McDojos at the same time.

 

[MJS]

This still begs the question of how many hours in the day do these people have? And on top of that are they superhuman to go through that?

It could be possible that the school could offer more than 1 art. For example: There could be a BJJ class from 7-8 pm and a JKD class from 8:15-9:15 pm.

Between my own training and the training of students I am exhausted at the end of the day. I don't know how they do it unless they are going to 4 McDojos at the same time.

I hear ya. There was a time when I'd be teaching 3 classes and by the time mine came along, I was thinking more of going home rather than staying to get my own training in. However, not everyone is an instructor, so that would make it a little easier.

Mike

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Its possible to get four instructor/black belt ranks. Perhaps not likely, but possible.

Here at my school I had one young man get the following ranks in the last ten years. He may not meet your criteria for four instructor/black belt ranks, but I suspect they come close:

2nd dan black belt in Tae Kwon Do (under me)
Black belt in Modern Arnis (Remy Presas)
Apprentice Instructor in JKD/Kali (Dan Inosanto)

He was given the title of "sifu" by our T'ai Chi instructor, who is himself certified by William Chen.

In addition to this he came within a hair's breadth of getting his Jagabaya status in Pencak Silat Mande Muda under Ibu Rita Suwanda. Her problems with her passport status kept that from happening.

He's come within a hair's breadth of getting his dan certification in Hapkido, but lost interest, I guess. He's now a 1st gup.


This young man's roomate earned the following:

2nd dan black belt TKD (under me)
Apprentice Instructor (Dan Inosanto)
Official Rep of Erik Paulson in Combat Submission Wrestling

His college courses and relationship somewhat slowed his training as of late, but he's trained in BJJ and Judo as well as the other arts listed. He didn't get four, but he might well have had his interests led him to branch out even more broadly the way the first did.


Now, both of these young men had some things going for them that enhanced their training and advancement:

1. Youth. Both started training in martial arts as pre-adolescents (7 and 11 respectively). They're now in their early twenties. One has time in middle school, high school, and college to do such things...if one makes the time.

2. Time. Their relationships with women didn't impinge on their training, nor did their social lives at school or in college.

3. Drive and ambition. Both not only trained here after hours, they went on an active seminar circuit and traveled as far as Texas and New York for training with instructors like Leo Gaje, Burton Richardson, Dan Inosanto, Remy Presas, Erik Paulson...the list goes on. They've spent thousands of dollars doing this.

4. A school that offers more than one art.

5. Supportive parents.

6. Supportive instructors...in other words they didn't encounter any stylistic bigots who slammed them for cross training or dissed the other instructors they sought out. I don't tolerate that here at my school.


It can be done...it may not be done often.



Regards,


Steve

 

[MJS]

I hear ya. There was a time when I'd be teaching 3 classes and by the time mine came along, I was thinking more of going home rather than staying to get my own training in. However, not everyone is an instructor, so that would make it a little easier.

Just to clarify. This reply of mine was in response to this statement:

Between my own training and the training of students I am exhausted at the end of the day. I don't know how they do it unless they are going to 4 McDojos at the same time.

What I meant by my reply was that not everyone that trains at a school is necessarily an inst. at that school. I was making a referrence to a student, not having inst. ranks in 4 arts.

Mike