Multiple attackers

[Kittan Bachika]

In the movies, fights involving multiple attackers usually look like this.

Movie Fight 1

Movie Fight 2

Movie Fight 3

Movie Fight 4

As cool as they look, it is just a movie. A beautifully choreographed
ballet of violence.


The reality looks more like the following videos. WARNING! Graphic language and some violence.

Fight 1

Fight 2

Fight 3

Fight 4

The best option in dealing with multiple is simply not to deal with them all. However, if a martial artist does not have that option, then they have to deal with the situation.

From viewing those videos, what actions would you have taken? What are the drills and techniques you use to prepare yourself for dealing with multiple attackers.

Here's another perspective. Let's say you are with a group of people and are attacked by one person. What actions would you take?

 

[MA-Caver]

In my early 20's I took a ride with a friend across country to St. Louis to attend a convention. We arrived early and gotten our room and decided to walk about downtown looking around for some place to eat... it was on a Sunday and we should've known that everything would be closed.
En-route back to the convention site/hotel I noticed a group of 8 or 9 boys following us. I told my friend (who was deaf) that we needed to head straight back to the hotel (and casually step up our pace) since I overheard a couple of them talking loudly "what about them?" They must've thought I too was deaf, as I usually do not speak and sign at the same time, and thought it safe to talk above the usual low tone/whispers when plotting an attack.
We managed to get to the hotel parking lot and then the boys (ages 15-18 according to the follow up police report) began to fan out to "surround us".
I then felt our chances of walking to the hotel just went right out the window... especially since they began cat-calling and tossing bits of gravel at us, my friend was extremely irritated and wanted to fight them, I knew we were outnumbered and easy targets... I told him NO, run when I tell you.
When I saw one of them closing in, possibly to be the "distraction" I gave my friend the signal and we tore *** towards the hotel. He went straight and I by quirk of fate had to dodge around parked cars and luckily for my friend only two went out after him while the rest converged on me.
The parked cars were both a boon and a hindrance in my race to the hotel lobby doors, dodging and weaving in and out between the vehicles. Some of the boys tried going OVER the cars and were yelled at by their leader not to draw attention by doing that.
I managed to reach the taxi strip but was cut off by the two after my friend who lost the race and zeroed on me and I had to veer off to the side of the building.
My thought was to find a side entrance to duck into... no such luck, solid wall all down the length of the building. Running as fast as I possibly could and risking a glance over my shoulder I saw a group not too far behind.
Ohh-kay, now around the back... no access there... down that block and 'round the other side... I got about 2/3rds of the way up when three popped around the corner in front of me which cut off that route. My only other alternative was towards the (Mississippi) river which the hotel was next to, the giant Arch gateway loomed above us (sorry for dramatic writing but it's an old habit of mine-- when I was--still am-- aspiring to be a writer)...
Eventually I was caught in their vise and placed my back against a wall and had to face a half circle of out of breath but angry kids around me.
I use the analogy of a pack of wild dogs surrounding a lion as one by one each tried to get into my defenses, when they presumed they had an opening. I had only a few years of sporadic MA/SD training and my efforts to block punches, grabs for my arms or whatever they can get their hands on were effective. One of them did manage to get a hold of my wrist and yank my watch off, but backed away when I launched a punch at him (missed). Had they attacked me en-massed then they'd had me cold.
It wasn't easy trying to keep an eye on 9 guys at once but I managed long enough for one of the hotel concierge guys to appear and start working his way down to us yelling at the boys and blowing his whistle for the cops. THAT distraction was enough for me to side kick one of them in the gut and push another one out of my way, leaving me a hole to zip on out, there was no following chase as all of them took off.
I caught up with the concierge guy and we both went back on into the building.

The police caught (almost) all of them since they (stupidly) regrouped too soon and fit the description given by the concierge. All of them were booked and released to the custody of their parents and my watch was never recovered. Since I was not a guest at that particular hotel the only thing I got was a jack and coke to slake my thirst.

Lesson learned was ... definitely RUN, but head towards the nearest building doorway, if you're cut off don't veer from your goal, bust through and take on whatever is there and hurt enough to make a hole and keep running... and if surrounded place your back to a wall to protect that vital part of you.

What was interesting was as I recall... I didn't say ONE word aloud or make ONE sound during my defense. No Kai's or anything like that. You should've seen their shocked faces at the police station as I identified them verbally one by one.
It was a scary experience but taught me that I can handle more than one attacker... provided that I increase my MA-SD training... which I had done over the years. Now I'm looking for a formal school to attend.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

You don't.

No one can win a fight against multiple attackers at once so I pre-reject the concept at all, to start with. You may end up in several different, short, brutal encounters one right after the other in rapid succession, but you don't ever try to deal with multiples all at once.

Faced with multiple attackers, I plan to pick the one guy that the Universe placed within range of me, and I make it very, very expensive for him to try and kill me. If my sidearm locks dry I go to my knife. If the knife breaks off I use my hands, if my hands give way I go to my teeth. I have only one rule – Start one job and see it through – The Universe will have to offer someone else the leftovers.

In most "real" fights,groups are only tough because they are anonymous. If you survive the first fight with the one guy the Universe assigned to you , then look around:

* IF there are still attackers, and

*IF they are still trying to kill you, and

*IF you’re still alive--THEN you can think about going back for seconds. But that's a lot of “If’s.”

 

[mook jong man]

You don't.

No one can win a fight against multiple attackers at once so I pre-reject the concept at all, to start with. You may end up in several different, short, brutal encounters one right after the other in rapid succession, but you don't ever try to deal with multiples all at once.

Faced with multiple attackers, I plan to pick the one guy that the Universe placed within range of me, and I make it very, very expensive for him to try and kill me. If my sidearm locks dry I go to my knife. If the knife breaks off I use my hands, if my hands give way I go to my teeth. I have only one rule – Start one job and see it through – The Universe will have to offer someone else the leftovers.

In most "real" fights,groups are only tough because they are anonymous. If you survive the first fight with the one guy the Universe assigned to you , then look around:

* IF there are still attackers, and

*IF they are still trying to kill you, and

*IF you’re still alive--THEN you can think about going back for seconds. But that's a lot of “If’s.”

And if you defeat all the attackers that the universe has assigned to you .
You are then automatically granted the title of HE-MAN , MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE.

 

[Omar B]

Gotta love those videos. Great example of why I used to get into fights a lot as a kid. Hell, two of those videos were from St Marks Place where I used to hang out every Saturday (my bud Jason lived there).

I've had to fight 2 attackers at once a couple times, but this was in my teens when I could take a punch better. I always take the Ed Parker approach, hurt the biggest baddest one of the group and make him bleed spectacularly ... though since I've only faced 2 at a time it doesn't really count does it.

Better to run, nothing's more valuable than your life, not even your watch.

 

[MA-Caver]

Better to run, nothing's more valuable than your life, not even your watch.

Yeah I agree now (some 20 years later after the fact) but at the time I was attached to that watch... m'dad gave it to me.
I think now if it happened again, I'd push to have those kids prosecuted to hopefully teach them a lesson BUT knowing it probably wouldn't help as they would likely get further corrupted in jail among the population.

I know I did the right thing running best as I could and the fact that I gotten that far without being caught :heh: If I tried that now... well you know about culling the herd and how packs go after the slowest.
At least I won't go down without a fight.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

And if you defeat all the attackers that the universe has assigned to you .
You are then automatically granted the title of HE-MAN , MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE.

Do I get the cool fur boots and suspenders? Ooh and the sword too.......

 

[seasoned]

Down and dirty. Keep one ace in the hole, and make sure you are good at it. Don't worry about quantity, just quality of technique. Don't worry about how many, just deal with the closest one and hurt him fast and bad. The above should only be used in the direst of situations and never haphazardly. Fight 1,2,3,4, were all done with many people around, and a walk away looks like it would have worked. Hell, there were people walking by, cars passing, and life was going on, don't fight it, call the cops if you can, or direct one of the many people around to do it. Alleyways, can't run, no help in sight, this is the makings of a self defense situation. The end result is, you be the judge, because what ever happens, there are responsibilities involved. There was another thread on MT about a small pocket knife. True self defense is all about surviving.

 

[jks9199]

There are lots of different tactics that can help (stacking, using a good position, like something to control how they can come at you), like Caver's wall, etc.) -- but numbers will win out in the end. You've got a fairly decent chance with 2, maybe 3 (unless they really know how to work together)... but get into 4 or 5 or 8... Unless they really don't have a clue on how to make a victim of you -- you're goal is simple. GET OUT OF THERE!! Do whatever it takes, and go.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

There are lots of different tactics that can help (stacking, using a good position, like something to control how they can come at you), like Caver's wall, etc.) -- but numbers will win out in the end. You've got a fairly decent chance with 2, maybe 3 (unless they really know how to work together)... but get into 4 or 5 or 8... Unless they really don't have a clue on how to make a victim of you -- you're goal is simple. GET OUT OF THERE!! Do whatever it takes, and go.

Exactly. But , as with all such threads of this type, they always seem to begin on the assumption, for some reason that escape and evasion isn't an option.

 

[MA-Caver]

There are lots of different tactics that can help (stacking, using a good position, like something to control how they can come at you), like Caver's wall, etc.) -- but numbers will win out in the end. You've got a fairly decent chance with 2, maybe 3 (unless they really know how to work together)... but get into 4 or 5 or 8... Unless they really don't have a clue on how to make a victim of you -- you're goal is simple. GET OUT OF THERE!! Do whatever it takes, and go.

What happened to me was something in the order of 20 years ago. I was lucky that it was a "bunch of kids" not a "gang of kids" who probably attacked me and my friend as an opportunity jump. Now-a-days gangs are used to all in one beatings... their "beat-ins/outs" require not just one or two guys but a number of older (experienced) gang-members all hitting/kicking at the same time... it would stand to reason that the same philosophy goes to whomever you're attacking on the street... but yeah, then again... theys gots guns, be easier to just shoot ya. But if they chose not to for some reason then they'll more-n-likely attack en-mass and a defender has a much harder time. Speed and power would be of the essence in an attack like that... that and endurance.

 

[jks9199]

What happened to me was something in the order of 20 years ago. I was lucky that it was a "bunch of kids" not a "gang of kids" who probably attacked me and my friend as an opportunity jump. Now-a-days gangs are used to all in one beatings... their "beat-ins/outs" require not just one or two guys but a number of older (experienced) gang-members all hitting/kicking at the same time... it would stand to reason that the same philosophy goes to whomever you're attacking on the street... but yeah, then again... theys gots guns, be easier to just shoot ya. But if they chose not to for some reason then they'll more-n-likely attack en-mass and a defender has a much harder time. Speed and power would be of the essence in an attack like that... that and endurance.

A jump-in or gang discipline doesn't prepare the members to take part in a real, coordinated team attack. The victim isn't defending themselves (generally; some gangs have different rules), but merely accepting the punishment.

That said... many gangs have developed the tactics and skills of ambush attacks en masse. Even more unpleasantly, there is a large gang presence in the military -- and they're bringing the skills and experience they learn there back to the streets.

As I said, numbers will win out. Even with a gun -- sufficient numbers who are willing to accept the risk will win out. Worst case (from their point of view) is they wait till you run dry and jump you then... The end goal, when outnumbered, is to find a way to get away. Anything else is unrealistic.

 

[MJS]

In the movies, fights involving multiple attackers usually look like this.

Movie Fight 1

Movie Fight 2

Movie Fight 3

Movie Fight 4

As cool as they look, it is just a movie. A beautifully choreographed
ballet of violence.


The reality looks more like the following videos. WARNING! Graphic language and some violence.

Fight 1

Fight 2

Fight 3

Fight 4

The best option in dealing with multiple is simply not to deal with them all. However, if a martial artist does not have that option, then they have to deal with the situation.

From viewing those videos, what actions would you have taken? What are the drills and techniques you use to prepare yourself for dealing with multiple attackers.

Here's another perspective. Let's say you are with a group of people and are attacked by one person. What actions would you take?

The no brainer of course is getting the hell out of there before things get ugly. Of course, thats not always the case. IMO, the #1 thing is being aware. Whats going on around you? You're arguing/fighting with 1 or 2 people, is there a 3rd one sneaking up behind you? When I worked for the DOC, I was constantly outnumbered. The housing units had 51 inmates, 17 in each of the 3 hallways. The dorms were 120/2. Obviously if the SHTF, you're pretty much shafted, but ya gotta know whats going on around you.

Stack them if possible, grab onto one, in a painful way and use him as a temporary shield. And seeing that the odds are already stacked against you, I wouldn't think twice about picking up something and using it as a weapon.