More from the "Religion of Peace"

[seasoned]

We're actually attacking individuals who embrace that ideology, which really isn't the same thing......and no, I don't have an answer as to what we should do......if I did i'd be in a different pay grade.

As you know, crime is like the same thing. We can't just sit back and do nothing. We have to hit it where it pops up.

 

[sgtmac_46]

As you know, crime is like the same thing. We can't just sit back and do nothing. We have to hit it where it pops up.

Crime is an individual phenomenon........when a common ideology exists, it's more than crime.......Stalin and Hitler, for example, were not the products of mere crime, they were the products of ideologies that tied them and their followers together......ideologies have power!

IF Christianity produces a sect that believes that it needs to bring about conversion by violent religious war, I will condemn and oppose it completely!

 

[seasoned]

Crime is an individual phenomenon........when a common ideology exists, it's more than crime.......Stalin and Hitler, for example, were not the products of mere crime, they were the products of ideologies that tied them and their followers together......ideologies have power!

IF Christianity produces a sect that believes that it needs to bring about conversion by violent religious war, I will condemn and oppose it completely![/quote]

And I will stand with you on that one. Behind the scenes it may be a holy war, but at face value, we are fighting radicalism at it’s worst. To do nothing would be a disaster for our country, not just our beliefs.

 

[Carol]

It was so much easier when all we had to do was hate the Communists...

 

[jarrod]

lol, one more go around before i get to bed.

I know that's the official politically correct line......but ideologies ARE better and worse than each other......ideologies and beliefs have power, and Islam is particularly powerful (I did not say bad or evil).

If we're discussing political ideologies you wouldn't make the claim that a political ideology was 'not any better or worse' than any other.....as we know how untrue that is.

Religion is political ideology with a supernatural reinforcement.

religion can be a political ideology with supernatural reinforcement, but all religion is not. i was not saying that one ideology is not better or worse than another. every religion allows for a wide variety of interpretation. now if someone wants to make the claims like "militant islam is dangerous", "fundamentalism is dangerous", or even "elements of arab culture foster intolerance & aggression" then i would agree. but when someone says "islam is bad" i will argue with them, just like i would if they said "christianity is bad". religions in & of themselves are seldom good or bad. they are all able to enlighten or enslave.

You missed the point......the issue was the Roman state, not Christianity......there is a difference, and you well know it. The state persecuted those who didn't adhere to the current religion in the same manner........if the issue was Christianity, then it would have not fit the pattern that occured PRIOR to Christianity........and since it fit the SAME pattern of repression before Christianity, your point is moot........Christianity was not the cause.



In short......arguing that Christians did it is not the same as arguing Christianity causes it.....that's the issue.......correlation does not equal causation.

In the case of fundamentalist Islam, however, a firm link exists between cause and effect.

ah, but you missed the point! any religion can be used to manipulate a political agenda. over here it's used to win elections, in arab nations it's used to get people to kill each other. just like the issue was the roman state & not the christian religion, the present day issue is far more complicated than simply islam. ignorance, poverty, a blood-feud culture are all significant factors. moderate & mystic muslims are no more dangerous than their counterparts in other world religions. unfortunately, "millions of muslims mind their own business" doesn't make a good headline.

We are not a 'christian nation'......saying it for the purposes of this argument doesn't make it so.

I honestly think you guys have honed your argument with the notion that you'll be arguing with Christians so much, that you can't shift gears.

right you are, we are not a christian nation...i was refering to the fact that the majority of our population profess christianity, i did not mean to suggest that we are a theocracy comprable to muslim nations.

& please don't refer to me as one of "you guys"...i'm actually not spouting a party line & i'm not arguing under the assumption that you are a christian. i am operating on the assumption that you are more familiar with christianity than any other religion. religions do not exist in a bubble; religious adherents will be just as much if not more influenced by their culture, education, & economic status as their religion.

jf

 

[seasoned]

It was so much easier when all we had to do was hate the Communists...

I do like your humor.

 

[Twin Fist]

if you think her humor is nice you should see her booty, err, i mean DUTY

 

[Monadnock]

People, not religion, produce these sects, so we should condemn their acts, not the religion.

Same for any other. There's fringe nuts in every one of 'em, some in more numbers than others, but they don't live in the same world as us, so they are more free to "recruit" followers.

I think if we look around, there are more nutcases in our own country, just under different names, like anarchists, new-nazis, militias, liberals, PETA...need I go on? If they all flew the Christian flag, things would look a little different.

I would suggest reading the Bible and QURAN in context, and try to understand the time period they were written. I think both can exists peacefully - less the fundamentalists in each group.

 

[Twin Fist]

good advice

and just another "they did it too"

you do not and can not justify or excuse bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior.

 

[Empty Hands]

you do not and can not justify or excuse bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior.

What you fail to comprehend, no matter how many times it is pointed out to you, is that no one is trying to defend the excesses of Islam or deflect that attention elsewhere. You put forward a proposition: Islam, the religion, is uniquely bad because of X. It is not deflection or defense to counter your point that other religions do X too. It directly addresses your claim, and points out that Islam is not unique in the way that you claim.

Continued blindness to that fact, combined with your baseless personal claims (i.e. Muslims are more likely to be perverts than anyone else), is what has drawn your criticism here. If you don't understand that, it's because you don't want to.

 

[Twin Fist]

you are getting personal again, and it is starting to get annoying, quit it.

and for the record Sparky, I didnt say the Mulims were more likely to be pervy.

i think the chance of pervy inclinations is pretty much equal all around the world

but most cultures/religions have controls and inhibitors in place so that those people with the freaky deaky impulses feel less inclined to act on them.

Islamic religion and culture by and large DONT

you cant tell a muslim not to pork the nieghbors kid when the Mullahs say it is ok

you cant tell a muslim not to feel itchy over the 9 year old, cuz the prophet did it.

I didnt say they are more likely to be pervy, I said that they are more prone to act on thier pervy-ness

those are 2 different things, but that distinction might have gone over your head.

so thats one of your craptatic accusations about me blown out of the water

want to go for two?

 

[Empty Hands]

want to go for two?

Want to address the main point?

 

[Twin Fist]

sure I will be happy to slap you around some more.

The FACT is that NO ONE is even saying that Islam is bad, which it in fact IS.

they are blowing it off onto the PEOPLE

My point is, when the people are being taught that it is ok to kill the infidel, of course they are gonna.

Chrisitianity teaches to love thy neighbor, when chrisitians DONT, they are acting against thier religion

the inquisistion was contrary to Christ's teachings

when muslims kill infidels, they are acting in accordance WITH thier religion.

9-11 would have given the Prophet a chubby

no matter how you spin it, Islam is responsible for way too much violence and death TODAY than can be explained as "just some isolated bad people"

 

[elder999]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479878,00.html

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — A pan-Arab newspaper quotes Saudi Arabia's most senior Muslim cleric as saying it is OK for 10-year-old girls to marry.


it's hard sometimes to not wish for the removal of this......"religion" from our world.

Firstly, perhaps we could go back and give this thread a more accurate title, like More from the Mufti of Saudi Arabia." :lfao:

More to the point, perhaps we should look at the other things he's said.

For example, on Dec. 8, 2008, he said:

"Islam does not support terrorism in any form and strictly prohibits shedding blood of innocents."

Seen here

He's also said that Saudis shouldn't join jihad in Iraq or Gaza.

He's also said that people shouldn't celebrate their birthdays and women shouldn't work in lingerie stores-which is, in Saudi Arabia, a complicated legal and social issue. Women have objected to dealing with male salesmen, and the Saudi ministry of commerce and the religious police (Commission for the Prevention of Virtue and Promotion of Vice...er...reverse that.) have said that as long as it's a women only mall, women could work there, but the Mufti has his reasons for going against it. He's also against women driving, because it will lead to mingling (with men they aren't related to) which is, of course, the root of all evil. :lfao:

Perhaps it's just that he's blind as a bat, and probably a little nuts...:lfao:

OF course, he's also called for moderation in Islam:

“Fanatical zeal cannot be considered part of religion, even if they [extremists] falsely pretend to be devout.”

In any case, here's some more from the Mufti of Saudi Arabia, which would be proper billing, at least.

 

[Twin Fist]

hmmm, food for thought a nutbark can apparently becoem the senior cleric in the homeland of islam.

says a LOT for them and thier standards.....

 

[Empty Hands]

The FACT is that NO ONE is even saying that Islam is bad, which it in fact IS.

No more so than the other religions it is being compared against. It isn't hard to find a minority of scum in any group. As for the theology and clergy, it is easy to find dogma and leaders preaching the same for horrible ends the same in any religion. We are trying to point out that most Muslims, just like most Christians (or anything else), are good people following moderate interpretations of their religion.

Chrisitianity teaches to love thy neighbor, when chrisitians DONT, they are acting against thier religion

No True Scotsman logical fallacy. Christians teach all manner of things, and most of them have pretty solid backing from the Bible. If you are going to claim that Jesus invalidated the law and all of the nastiness it contained, I would point you to several verses:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." -Matthew 5:17
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." -Matthew 5:18

Meanwhile, there are a multitude of verses from the Old and New Testaments that have been used to condone every manner of brutality.

the inquisistion was contrary to Christ's teachings

Not according to the, uh, Pope of the Christians...

when muslims kill infidels, they are acting in accordance WITH thier religion.

"And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors." (Qur'an, 2:192)

What do you know, Islam has passages which can be interpreted for evil or for good. Just like the rest of them...

9-11 would have given the Prophet a chubby

If you have any Muslim students, I hope for their sake they aren't reading this.

no matter how you spin it, Islam is responsible for way too much violence and death TODAY than can be explained as "just some isolated bad people"

There are 1.5 billion Muslims in this world. The death toll from Islamic terrorism in the past 8 years measures in the few thousands, caused by an even smaller number of terrorists. I don't find it difficult at all to describe a few thousand of that 1.5 billion as "some isolated bad people."

Other points you have ignored in this thread which cut against your thesis:
- There are 57 majority Muslim countries in the world, most of which have no terrorists.
- Even several states in the US theoretically allow marriage as young as that proposed by the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia.
- The Grand Mufti of SA has no binding hierarchical authority in Islam as compared to your fallacious comparison to the Pope. Even if he did, however, as Elder points out, he has also called for moderation and an end to terrorism.

At the end of the day, to get back to the main point, no one defends the excesses of Islam here. No more than they do for other religions. Which also have their extremists, and their dogma which can be used to promote extremism. Which makes your singling out of Islam as uniquely bad, especially when it has been proven it is not, bigoted.

 

[elder999]

hmmm, food for thought a nutbark can apparently becoem the senior cleric in the homeland of islam.

says a LOT for them and thier standards.....

Oh yeah. And Jimmy \"Kill a gay for lookin' at me, and tell God he died,and a $20 hooker" Swaggert, Pat " "I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you"Robertson, Jerry"the Antichrist will, by necessity, be a Jewish male Falwell and Oral "God's gonna take me away if I don't raise $10 Million" Roberts are just the models of stability for "senior clerics" of Christianity in our homeland...

says a LOT for us and our standards:lfao:

 

[Twin Fist]

there are some absolute moonbats in organized televised american christianity

but AGAIN, they aint emmulating Christ

The mufti, at least in THIS case, is emmulating the prophet

once again proving my point that islam is an inherently Bad religion.

prophet is a pedophile=bad religion
prophet is a science fiction writer=bad religion

prophet is a science fiction write and you buy his crap and dont let your autistic kid take medicines that could save his life=bad religion


There are 1.5 billion Muslims in this world. The death toll from Islamic terrorism in the past 8 years measures in the few thousands, caused by an even smaller number of terrorists. I don't find it difficult at all to describe a few thousand of that 1.5 billion as "some isolated bad people."

thats cuz you are being simplistic. "a few thousand" I think you mean if you only count American dead.Kurds killed by muslims, tens of thousands, iraqi killed by muslim rebels, several thousand, the philipines, indonesia, Europe, Mumbai,etc etc etc Just since they started acting up in at the Olympics they are EASILY in the 100's of thousands, if not millions.

Other points you have ignored in this thread which cut against your thesis:
- There are 57 majority Muslim countries in the world, most of which have no terrorists.

Even a busted watch is right twice a day. Are those countries as fervently Muslim as the trouble makers? whole different answer when you ask an HONEST question

- Even several states in the US theoretically allow marriage as young as that proposed by the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia.

No one came up with a state that allows marraige at 10, now today.

- The Grand Mufti of SA has no binding hierarchical authority in Islam as compared to your fallacious comparison to the Pope.

The comparison to the pope is pretty good, not exact, but the closest thing to it that Islam has to offer. I didnt ignore it, i addressed it and disagreed. LEARN TO READ

BTW- using words like Fallacious? makes you come across as a nancy boy book nerd. No one like those guys. In fact, those guys? they get swirly's. For a reason. Dont be that guy

Even if he did, however, as Elder points out, he has also called for moderation and an end to terrorism.

See above RE Busted Watch.

Thanks, I sparred today, but i still needed someone to slap around. Your good for that!

KTHXBAI

 

[Carol]

Babe, you need a better outlet for that pent-up energy...

 

[Twin Fist]

gimme a better suggestion...........%-}