cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
Well said... 
OP
GouRonin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #22
I agree.
If TKD wants to be made less fun of, then they ought to clean their act up. However I know for the sake of moderators I will cease the jokes...for now.
OP
Abbax8
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #23
The reduction in rank, weather one rank or 10, is up to the instructor who presumably is better able to judge than we who don't know as much. One thing that has not been pointed out though. Breaking into a house is STUPID as it can get you SHOT AND KILLED!!!! Not exactly representative of a skillful MA.
Peace
Dennis
Peace
Dennis
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
Bottom line, the behavior described constitutes multiple felonies. I will NOT have a felon representing me. End of story; expelled as a student; rank/teaching credentials revoked.
OP
TKDman
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #25
Taking his rank away? Wow that means nothing. How about officially canceling his black belt certification and making sure he never gets it back unless he moves to canada?
OP
GouRonin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #26
What kinda crack is that? Just because he moves here he can have it back? That's typical of the kind of @ssclown who studies TKD. He can't have his black belt in the USA but if he moves to Canada then of course he can?
You started off your post good kid but then you moved far into the "J@ck@ss" zone.
:cuss:
Takeing someones rank away means verry little in the long run. They have already been trained by someone in a certian system and school, thusly anyone who knows that person or who knows that they where trained at the school wii always associate them with the school. If they end up in court the schools name and the instructors will be dragged through the mud.
As instructors we must constantly be on guard for warning signs of an overagressive personality that is just to wild and uncontroled and uncontrolable
As instructors we must constantly be on guard for warning signs of an overagressive personality that is just to wild and uncontroled and uncontrolable
white belt
Brown Belt
Mountain Sage,
I am sorry the quality of clarity at your refuge from stress has become muddied. A lot of people/students don't understand how nauseating, and far reaching, an incident like this can be. Every student at that school, Instructors included, now will have lost some face due to this "man's" poor actions. With power comes responsibility. If power is attained and not treated responsibly then the wielder himself will become CONSUMED. Eventualy those who would defend him will then to be consumed by their poor judgement. This flagrant violation of common sense was premeditated. There are no excuses. Your Instructor will suffer for keeping this "man" at his/your school.
About a year and a half ago, I was faced with a difficult task at the school I own. A high schooler who reached Black Belt through years of study at our school, injured a fellow student who is also a Black Belt. For some time before I was given the courtesy of taking over the school from my GM, I noticed this young man's attitude turning. I discussed it in passing with my GM and he said watch him closely and give him time to mature a little. I thought of this boy as a nephew to me as he was growing up and attending the school, but I started having a BAD feeling about his attitude. He started acting like he was invincible in attitude and that he had "been to the mountaintop" so to speak. I sparred him a little once in awhile to politely remind him that a badass attitude was no match for a cool head and strategy. I NEVER mistreated him. He had good techniques, but refused to listen to me coaching him how to use them effectively. Beautiful and Powerful kicks and punches, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, when sparring, thru sheer stubborness. One day I conducted a multiple sparring session and paired him with two 40-50 somethings in succession. Both men are top flight (Black Belt) good guys who would give the shirts off their backs to a fellow student. The youngster could not score on the first older man and got miffed when I told him to relax and alter his technique. The second older partner was also frustrating him in the next match. I turned my back to check on another match next to them and out of the corner of my eye saw this young man cut loose with 2 HARD KICKS TO THE OLDER MANS ARMS USING HIS SHINS. I jumped over to grab him, but the 3rd kick had already landed before I could stop him. The older man had a puzzled look on his face as to why this guy went off. Instead of a moderate contact match aimed at trunk and head targets with feet and hands this kid got frustrated and tried to damage this man's arms with his SHINS at FULL velocity. I made him go off to the back of the class after scolding him and tended to the other student while still teaching the rest of the class. The older man was pretty sore, but toughed it out and finished class. The other students were ashamed at what they saw and heard. After a couple of days I got phone call from the victim stating that things took a turn for the worse. He went to the doctor and found out he had a BROKEN ARM. The youngster had yet to come back. When he did I said nothing until the rest of the students had all lined up to bow in. I informed them all of the arm break and stripped this youngster of his belt in front of the rest of the school. I put a white belt on him and put him in the back with the rule of no speaking to anyone. When I spoke to his parents after class, they expressed disappointment in me and my decision. They did not care about the older mans situation. The youngster was me, me, me. I then kicked him out right then and there for life. It has been over a year and he still has not found a school that he likes or likes him. I know the other competitors/owners unbeknownst to him. I never spoke of the incident, but mentioned "attitude problems and to watch him if he trains with others".
In retrospect, I know I made the right decision. No one in my school wanted to be around him after that incident. I also was concerned that if he lost it again, one of the better Black Belts might accidently hurt HIM. Also, my viewpoint business wise was this goof was an insurance liability and he could get me and his parents sued, insurance or not. The older man could have been a jerk and sued me. He came back after the cast was off and continues to this day, luckily. He understood that I could not predict an outcome like he had experienced. I was VERY lucky. Now, word has gotten around and my school is very well known for not accepting BS or losers PERIOD! My concern for your situation, Mountainsage is that the drunken incidents mishandling will cause sensible people to connect you and the others, Instructors included, in your school with that type of idiocy. Your Instructor has in a sense turned his back on everyone, but this miscreant you mention. Not good. Not sending the right message to the miscreant, the other students and the community in which you live and socialize. Your Instructor could have BOLSTERED the school's name and the reputation of everyone in it by doing the right thing and not showing favortism. I am very sorry on your behalf. If I may suggest, think about shopping around for a plan B and C school. Think about training under a man whose decisions you can respect.
A last note. The young man I kicked out was my GM's son's BEST FRIEND. My GM was out of town and had no knowledge of what happened until he came back. As you can see, I HAD A HARD DECISION. I was met with strong approval and new found trust in my GM's eyes. I had no clue what to expect, but I knew I had to try and protect his name and the NAME OF ALL THE STUDENTS. I apologize if this is not what you wanted to hear. Just being honest.
Best of luck,
white belt
I am sorry the quality of clarity at your refuge from stress has become muddied. A lot of people/students don't understand how nauseating, and far reaching, an incident like this can be. Every student at that school, Instructors included, now will have lost some face due to this "man's" poor actions. With power comes responsibility. If power is attained and not treated responsibly then the wielder himself will become CONSUMED. Eventualy those who would defend him will then to be consumed by their poor judgement. This flagrant violation of common sense was premeditated. There are no excuses. Your Instructor will suffer for keeping this "man" at his/your school.
About a year and a half ago, I was faced with a difficult task at the school I own. A high schooler who reached Black Belt through years of study at our school, injured a fellow student who is also a Black Belt. For some time before I was given the courtesy of taking over the school from my GM, I noticed this young man's attitude turning. I discussed it in passing with my GM and he said watch him closely and give him time to mature a little. I thought of this boy as a nephew to me as he was growing up and attending the school, but I started having a BAD feeling about his attitude. He started acting like he was invincible in attitude and that he had "been to the mountaintop" so to speak. I sparred him a little once in awhile to politely remind him that a badass attitude was no match for a cool head and strategy. I NEVER mistreated him. He had good techniques, but refused to listen to me coaching him how to use them effectively. Beautiful and Powerful kicks and punches, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, when sparring, thru sheer stubborness. One day I conducted a multiple sparring session and paired him with two 40-50 somethings in succession. Both men are top flight (Black Belt) good guys who would give the shirts off their backs to a fellow student. The youngster could not score on the first older man and got miffed when I told him to relax and alter his technique. The second older partner was also frustrating him in the next match. I turned my back to check on another match next to them and out of the corner of my eye saw this young man cut loose with 2 HARD KICKS TO THE OLDER MANS ARMS USING HIS SHINS. I jumped over to grab him, but the 3rd kick had already landed before I could stop him. The older man had a puzzled look on his face as to why this guy went off. Instead of a moderate contact match aimed at trunk and head targets with feet and hands this kid got frustrated and tried to damage this man's arms with his SHINS at FULL velocity. I made him go off to the back of the class after scolding him and tended to the other student while still teaching the rest of the class. The older man was pretty sore, but toughed it out and finished class. The other students were ashamed at what they saw and heard. After a couple of days I got phone call from the victim stating that things took a turn for the worse. He went to the doctor and found out he had a BROKEN ARM. The youngster had yet to come back. When he did I said nothing until the rest of the students had all lined up to bow in. I informed them all of the arm break and stripped this youngster of his belt in front of the rest of the school. I put a white belt on him and put him in the back with the rule of no speaking to anyone. When I spoke to his parents after class, they expressed disappointment in me and my decision. They did not care about the older mans situation. The youngster was me, me, me. I then kicked him out right then and there for life. It has been over a year and he still has not found a school that he likes or likes him. I know the other competitors/owners unbeknownst to him. I never spoke of the incident, but mentioned "attitude problems and to watch him if he trains with others".
In retrospect, I know I made the right decision. No one in my school wanted to be around him after that incident. I also was concerned that if he lost it again, one of the better Black Belts might accidently hurt HIM. Also, my viewpoint business wise was this goof was an insurance liability and he could get me and his parents sued, insurance or not. The older man could have been a jerk and sued me. He came back after the cast was off and continues to this day, luckily. He understood that I could not predict an outcome like he had experienced. I was VERY lucky. Now, word has gotten around and my school is very well known for not accepting BS or losers PERIOD! My concern for your situation, Mountainsage is that the drunken incidents mishandling will cause sensible people to connect you and the others, Instructors included, in your school with that type of idiocy. Your Instructor has in a sense turned his back on everyone, but this miscreant you mention. Not good. Not sending the right message to the miscreant, the other students and the community in which you live and socialize. Your Instructor could have BOLSTERED the school's name and the reputation of everyone in it by doing the right thing and not showing favortism. I am very sorry on your behalf. If I may suggest, think about shopping around for a plan B and C school. Think about training under a man whose decisions you can respect.
A last note. The young man I kicked out was my GM's son's BEST FRIEND. My GM was out of town and had no knowledge of what happened until he came back. As you can see, I HAD A HARD DECISION. I was met with strong approval and new found trust in my GM's eyes. I had no clue what to expect, but I knew I had to try and protect his name and the NAME OF ALL THE STUDENTS. I apologize if this is not what you wanted to hear. Just being honest.
Best of luck,
white belt
OP
MountainSage
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #30
Whitebelt,
Obviously your moniker doesn't do you justice. Maybe we should exchange on-line names. You have clearly defined my feelings about the situation, now if I could understand my problem with the punishment. I come from a right and wrong childhood, where you were punished for wrong at a severe level, or at least I believed it was servere at the time, but it taught me the there was trouble if I crossed the line. I do believe that the BB understanding to gravity of the situation and is working to rectify the situation, but it doesn't make me feel right about the whole situation. I guess that the respect level for my teacher and the BB have gone way down. I have no other option for schools, because I live in a small town. My county has only 8,000 people and I believe 16,000 cows, it's real rural. There have been other situation that I have felt that my instructors judgement was in error and potential dangerous, but there isn't enough room to address these issues.
Mountain Sage
Obviously your moniker doesn't do you justice. Maybe we should exchange on-line names. You have clearly defined my feelings about the situation, now if I could understand my problem with the punishment. I come from a right and wrong childhood, where you were punished for wrong at a severe level, or at least I believed it was servere at the time, but it taught me the there was trouble if I crossed the line. I do believe that the BB understanding to gravity of the situation and is working to rectify the situation, but it doesn't make me feel right about the whole situation. I guess that the respect level for my teacher and the BB have gone way down. I have no other option for schools, because I live in a small town. My county has only 8,000 people and I believe 16,000 cows, it's real rural. There have been other situation that I have felt that my instructors judgement was in error and potential dangerous, but there isn't enough room to address these issues.
Mountain Sage
white belt
Brown Belt
Mountain Sage,
A bit of a pickle, I see. A monopoly of sorts by your Instructor. You have a passion for your studies both physical and mental. You have a familiar face in town. By paying for and attending classes you feel as though you are supporting something that defeats your sense of right and wrong, but at the same time provides a feeling of hope and contentment. Whereas my pickle was a quick sword through the ribs, yours is the prolonged torture of a thousand tiny razors. One each time you think of "you know what". Here is a psychological Judo technique possibly of use. Humor me a little. When the right situation arises, with PROPER audience, smile and compliment your Instuctor on how well he handled it all. Yes, I mean it! Explain to him how "Most Instructors would have turned the wayward student away for good" and "How wise it is to keep him around so that he may closer monitor him in case his behavior were to worsen and more deeply affect the populace at large. With him as an Instructor and guide, he now may have a chance of avoiding future bad judgement". After all, he is a dangerous BLACK BELT trained personally by him! If the Instructor had not these intentions originally, maybe a seed can be planted with your assumed impressed attitude. A way of "saving face" and a solid explanation to confused students and outsiders who don't understand the true depth of "the student/teacher relationship". If your Instructor is fast on his feet, he will remark on how observant you are and compliment you. He might be confused a bit himself over the "incident" and maybe a student can teach him something without him knowing it. Or at least admitting it. Either way it goes, pretend that is what happened, or you had assumed happened, to everyone involved. Be Mr. Smiley to the miscreant and focus on your needs. By setting an example, sometimes the lower ranks become "The Joneses". The higher ranks surely can't allow a "lower ranking student" to show them up with superior social skills, attitude and tenacity! Heaven forbid!
If you can't exchange your situation, work from the inside to alter the present one? One man can be the whole difference if the cards are close to his chest.
If you are or are not familiar with a philosopher named Machiavelli, getting more familiar with his works on strategy never hurt anyone.
Hope I haven't wasted your time,
white belt
p.s.
I use the name white belt to describe my personal agenda. That is to be "A student of all, a follower of none". Sometimes I don't allow certain people to see I am learning from them. Could give them a big head. Maybe your Instructor and I have something in common?
A bit of a pickle, I see. A monopoly of sorts by your Instructor. You have a passion for your studies both physical and mental. You have a familiar face in town. By paying for and attending classes you feel as though you are supporting something that defeats your sense of right and wrong, but at the same time provides a feeling of hope and contentment. Whereas my pickle was a quick sword through the ribs, yours is the prolonged torture of a thousand tiny razors. One each time you think of "you know what". Here is a psychological Judo technique possibly of use. Humor me a little. When the right situation arises, with PROPER audience, smile and compliment your Instuctor on how well he handled it all. Yes, I mean it! Explain to him how "Most Instructors would have turned the wayward student away for good" and "How wise it is to keep him around so that he may closer monitor him in case his behavior were to worsen and more deeply affect the populace at large. With him as an Instructor and guide, he now may have a chance of avoiding future bad judgement". After all, he is a dangerous BLACK BELT trained personally by him! If the Instructor had not these intentions originally, maybe a seed can be planted with your assumed impressed attitude. A way of "saving face" and a solid explanation to confused students and outsiders who don't understand the true depth of "the student/teacher relationship". If your Instructor is fast on his feet, he will remark on how observant you are and compliment you. He might be confused a bit himself over the "incident" and maybe a student can teach him something without him knowing it. Or at least admitting it. Either way it goes, pretend that is what happened, or you had assumed happened, to everyone involved. Be Mr. Smiley to the miscreant and focus on your needs. By setting an example, sometimes the lower ranks become "The Joneses". The higher ranks surely can't allow a "lower ranking student" to show them up with superior social skills, attitude and tenacity! Heaven forbid!
If you can't exchange your situation, work from the inside to alter the present one? One man can be the whole difference if the cards are close to his chest.
If you are or are not familiar with a philosopher named Machiavelli, getting more familiar with his works on strategy never hurt anyone.
Hope I haven't wasted your time,
white belt
p.s.
I use the name white belt to describe my personal agenda. That is to be "A student of all, a follower of none". Sometimes I don't allow certain people to see I am learning from them. Could give them a big head. Maybe your Instructor and I have something in common?
OP
Shinzu
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #32
i would remove him from my school and take rank also. i would not want someone of that character to represent me, my students, or my organization.
white belt
Brown Belt
Gou,
I am from the U.S. and study foreign culture. What exactly is an @ssclown? Is this a performer common to the Canadian type of Circus? If so, describe their escapades. Do they too pile out of small cars, in groups, like their U.S. cousins? If so, being an @ssclown must be hard in that cold weather you guys have up there. Do @ssclowns frighten small children? Do Canadian children dream of running away to the circus to be with the @ssclowns? When they sit down does it smudge their makeup? Do @ssclowns perform at Canadian Bar Mitzvahs and funerals? Canada is a land of such mystery. Possibly a troupe of Canadian @ssclowns could visit Mr. Sages DoJang and make everyone happy again?
Your neighbor down South,
white belt
In the US, we call them 'Congressmen'.
white belt
Brown Belt
Canadian children are frightened by Congressmen? Canada IS a land of mystery! It's a small world after all.
white belt
white belt
OP
MountainSage
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #36
white belt, you have once more shown me your a person of skill and brains, thank you. growing up there were two thing that were not done, doing anything to tarnish the family name and doing anything to "lose face". This from parents that never were involved in any martial art. I guess the BB violated both of these deeply ingrained beliefs and that bothers me. I try to set a good example for the lower ranks in my school and hope to one day teach with that same high example. Kaith Rustaz, your hitting a litle close to home. I ran for the House of Reps this last election cycle. Got my @ss kick like a five year old in a UFC match, but I did get 4% of the vote while spending no money.
Mountain Sage
Mountain Sage
MountainSage, not at all. I'd like to see more folks like you get in there and restore the honor those postitions once held, rather than the stink of SI$ speaking over the true needs of the people.
:asian:
:asian:
white belt
Brown Belt
Mountain Sage,
My ideas are a reflection of my past defeats and what I would do differently now. I've come up with a standard at the DoJang that helps people kind of sort things out for themselves.
1) An idiot doesn't learn from his mistakes.
2) A smart man learns from his mistakes.
3) A GENIOUS learns from OTHER peoples mistakes.
I like to think that my past mistakes have inspired some genious. Inspiring a LOT of genious isn't necessarily a good thing. Your errant Black Belt associate is doing his part to ensure YOUR level of genious and I hope he aspires for lesson two at least.
Let's say a guy walks out into traffic and gets pulverized by a truck. The other pedestrians see this and say "I'm not ever doing that!". The man stuck on the grill of that truck is a "Great Teacher" of sorts. Inspiring genious! He is dead, but he got the lesson across to ALL who witnessed. Look both ways. A 100% success! I personally would never want the title "Great Teacher". They can sometimes be idiots! Dead idiots. Sharing a couple of ideas back and forth with good people is good enough for me.
Your words to me are very kind and I hope you reach a new level of satisfaction with all of your endeavors. Keep us posted.
white belt
My ideas are a reflection of my past defeats and what I would do differently now. I've come up with a standard at the DoJang that helps people kind of sort things out for themselves.
1) An idiot doesn't learn from his mistakes.
2) A smart man learns from his mistakes.
3) A GENIOUS learns from OTHER peoples mistakes.
I like to think that my past mistakes have inspired some genious. Inspiring a LOT of genious isn't necessarily a good thing. Your errant Black Belt associate is doing his part to ensure YOUR level of genious
and I hope he aspires for lesson two at least.Let's say a guy walks out into traffic and gets pulverized by a truck. The other pedestrians see this and say "I'm not ever doing that!". The man stuck on the grill of that truck is a "Great Teacher" of sorts. Inspiring genious! He is dead, but he got the lesson across to ALL who witnessed. Look both ways. A 100% success! I personally would never want the title "Great Teacher". They can sometimes be idiots!
Dead idiots. Sharing a couple of ideas back and forth with good people is good enough for me.Your words to me are very kind and I hope you reach a new level of satisfaction with all of your endeavors. Keep us posted.
white belt
OP
MountainSage
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #39
White belt, I have fallen into all three of your catagories more than once in my life. Luck for me the idiot ones weren't fatal and that wasn't from lack of effort. I did some reallllyyyy dumb things as a kid. Kaith, I appreciate the support, now move to eastern Oregon so you can vote for me .
Mountain Sage
.Mountain Sage
Perfect!! That's exactly how it should be. No head instructor should have to put up with anything like that. His BB is a reflection of him his studio, other students, martial arts, and their practicing art. Revoke the rank immediately and sever the ties.
