Modern Japanese jiu jitsu vs traditional Japanese jiu jitsu

Drose427

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Actually, Judo would be the TKD of the grappling world. Bjj isn't heavily influenced by its sport side, or a large governing body. A lot of Judo has been removed in order to facilitate its competitive side. There was actually a video showing all the techniques no longer taught in Judo because they were banned by the IJF. For example, you would rarely if ever go into a Bjj school and not be allowed to do a double leg takedown while rolling. However, that's the case in quite a few Judo dojos.

Also Judo and TKD are both Olympic sports.

Well i was going for the "very distinct but wasily traceable" aspect. Although, ITF would probably be the better examply than Kukki TKD.
 
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moonhill99

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Actually, Judo would be the TKD of the grappling world. Bjj isn't heavily influenced by its sport side, or a large governing body. A lot of Judo has been removed in order to facilitate its competitive side. There was actually a video showing all the techniques no longer taught in Judo because they were banned by the IJF. For example, you would rarely if ever go into a Bjj school and not be allowed to do a double leg takedown while rolling. However, that's the case in quite a few Judo dojos.

Also Judo and TKD are both Olympic sports.

I'm not aware of any techniques no longer being taught in Judo.

If there is any school out there giving a water down version of Judo it is probably because of the high number of people getting Knee injuries.

Judo or Japanese jiu jitsu has high number of people getting Knee injuries.

Also Judo or Japanese jiu jitsu can be hard on your hip too.
 

Hanzou

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Well i was going for the "very distinct but wasily traceable" aspect. Although, ITF would probably be the better examply than Kukki TKD.

Well are the Koreans even admitting that TKD came from Japanese Karate? Last I checked, they were still claiming it came from some ancient Korean art instead of Shotokan.
 

Hanzou

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I'm not aware of any techniques no longer being taught in Judo.


Definitely isn't a universal thing, but there are clubs out there that won't teach techniques that are banned from competition.
 

Drose427

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Well are the Koreans even admitting that TKD came from Japanese Karate? Last I checked, they were still claiming it came from some ancient Korean art instead of Shotokan.

Ive never heard the ones ive met say it came solely from Taekkyon (the most common korean part of the tkd equation). Although thats not to say other Korean masters dont.

Technically it didnt quite come from shotokan either, some came from okinawan.

The founders of the 9 kwans had different training, there wasnt a standard blending of styles.
 

Hanzou

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I should also point out that Mizukan Ryu is exactly like Bjj in that it's a modern, eclectic martial art with roots in Japanese Jujutsu. I find it odd that the author of that article would say that Bjj isn't jujutsu simply because the Brazilians didn't adopt Japanese culture along with the Japanese techniques.

Okay, I don't really find it odd at all....
 

Tony Dismukes

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I have seen white belts do better and faster moves than these higher belts students!!!

Other than the instructor, there are no advanced belts in that video. It looks like a beginners class. Anyway, "fast" is not what you should be looking for. The purpose of drilling techniques like that is to develop correct form. Speed comes later.

The school in Jacksonville Florid just screams McDojo to me.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
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moonhill99

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Other than the instructor, there are no advanced belts in that video. It looks like a beginners class. Anyway, "fast" is not what you should be looking for. The purpose of drilling techniques like that is to develop correct form. Speed comes later.



You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Tony the reason why I said the school look like McDojo.

1. I'm not impressed with their promote videos.

2. I seen enough clips of other schools of white belts do these moves faster and more crisp than this school!! Even higher belts here are struggling to do these moves.

3. There not showing many moves.

To me it looks like school just trying to make money or the instructor is not that good.

This is some thing I will not spend money or my time when there are better schools in else where.

If that schools wants more people to sign up they should post better promote videos, show of more moves and better techniques.
 

Steve

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I'm just wondering what machado Jiu jitsu is. I mean certainly I know about the machado bros. but there is no meaningful distinction to make.
 

Spinedoc

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Tony the reason why I said the school look like McDojo.

1. I'm not impressed with their promote videos.

2. I seen enough clips of other schools of white belts do these moves faster and more crisp than this school!! Even higher belts here are struggling to do these moves.

3. There not showing many moves.

To me it looks like school just trying to make money or the instructor is not that good.

This is some thing I will not spend money or my time when there are better schools in else where.

If that schools wants more people to sign up they should post better promote videos, show of more moves and better techniques.


Again, speed doesn't matter. In fact, we tell people to go real slow for a long time. Most people who try to rush techniques too quickly before they are ready exhibit poor form and poor execution. Better to go slow, take your time, and really learn the technique. Speed comes later. Much, much, much later.
 
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moonhill99

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Again, speed doesn't matter. In fact, we tell people to go real slow for a long time. Most people who try to rush techniques too quickly before they are ready exhibit poor form and poor execution. Better to go slow, take your time, and really learn the technique. Speed comes later. Much, much, much later.

There is difference of trying to do some thing and you are struggling than going slow to make sure you doing it right.

And higher belts should not be struggling and going so slow.

Also they should not be using a inexperienced students for a promote videos.

Look at Hapkido promote video how much better there promote videos are!!

And well it probably take 5 to 10 in those countries ( may be 10 to 15 years using westerns standards ) years to get that good. But if shows you could get that good at that school as higher belts are doing that.


What schools would I pick. Yes if that Hapkido school was in same areas has the other one I would take the Hapkido school.
 

Drose427

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There is difference of trying to do some thing and you are struggling than going slow to make sure you doing it right.

And higher belts should not be struggling and going so slow.

Also they should not be using a inexperienced students for a promote videos.

Look at Hapkido promote video how much better there promote videos are!!

And well it probably take 5 to 10 in those countries ( may be 10 to 15 years using westerns standards ) years to get that good. But if shows you could get that good at that school as higher belts are doing that.


What schools would I pick. Yes if that Hapkido school was in same areas has the other one I would take the Hapkido school.

Im not sure why you think there are any advanced belts in the video......

Theyre all very clearly wearing white belts with a few what looked to be blue or brown belts, which arent advanced in several grappling schools...

you seem fairly inexeperienced, which is fine! But instead of calling everything a Mcdojo or arguing, listen to what the folks here who have been trying to help havw to say.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Tony the reason why I said the school look like McDojo.

1. I'm not impressed with their promote videos.

2. I seen enough clips of other schools of white belts do these moves faster and more crisp than this school!! Even higher belts here are struggling to do these moves.

3. There not showing many moves.

To me it looks like school just trying to make money or the instructor is not that good.

This is some thing I will not spend money or my time when there are better schools in else where.

If that schools wants more people to sign up they should post better promote videos, show of more moves and better techniques.

1) What exactly is your martial arts experience that you are using to judge the performance in the videos?
2) As I mentioned before, speed is not the criteria for judging practice. This is not a demo where the practitioners are performing to impress. It's footage from a beginners class showing the learning process.
3) "Not showing many moves" is totally not any sort of useful criteria for judging the video or the school. The video is not trying to show anything close to the full curriculum for the school. It's trying to show a typical class experience. Odds are, you would (and should) cover less material than that in a given class. The instructor probably threw 2-3 classes worth of material into the video just to add some variety. I can guarantee you the instructor knows and teaches a lot more material than you are seeing in those short videos.

Judging from the video I'd say the instructor is a competent black belt from a Danzan Ryu background who has added a bit of boxing and BJJ into the syllabus. I'd recommend checking out his higher ranked students to judge how well he passes on his skills, but you'd have to visit the school for that, since the video only shows a beginners class.

"McDojo" generally refers to a business model based on extracting maximum cash from the student while providing sub-par instruction. The classic example would be a school that awards black belts to 8 year olds while charging their parents thousands of dollars for the process. Whether or not this school appeals to you, there's no evidence for it meeting that criteria.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Also they should not be using a inexperienced students for a promote videos.

Look at Hapkido promote video how much better there promote videos are!!

There is a huge difference between a demo (where the practitioners are performing polished techniques in order to impress) and a class (where the students are learning the material.)

Also, the hapkido video you posted featured experienced, athletic black belts who are probably part of a demo team that practices specifically for that sort of impressive choreography. The Kodenkan video featured beginner students ranging from kids to senior citizens who were definitely not part of a demo team.

I guarantee that if you want to reach the level of the folks in the Hapkido demo video, you will spend a lot of years looking like the students in the Kodenkan class video first.

Im not sure why you think there are any advanced belts in the video......

Theyre all very clearly wearing white belts with a few what looked to be blue or brown belts, which arent advanced in several grappling schools...

No brown belts that I saw. Apart from the instructor, there was a yellow belt, a green belt, and a couple of blue belts. Assuming the school follows normal Danzan Ryu promotion guidelines, they might all have less than a year of training.
 
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moonhill99

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1) What exactly is your martial arts experience that you are using to judge the performance in the videos?
2) As I mentioned before, speed is not the criteria for judging practice. This is not a demo where the practitioners are performing to impress. It's footage from a beginners class showing the learning process.
3) "Not showing many moves" is totally not any sort of useful criteria for judging the video or the school. The video is not trying to show anything close to the full curriculum for the school. It's trying to show a typical class experience. Odds are, you would (and should) cover less material than that in a given class. The instructor probably threw 2-3 classes worth of material into the video just to add some variety. I can guarantee you the instructor knows and teaches a lot more material than you are seeing in those short videos.

Judging from the video I'd say the instructor is a competent black belt from a Danzan Ryu background who has added a bit of boxing and BJJ into the syllabus. I'd recommend checking out his higher ranked students to judge how well he passes on his skills, but you'd have to visit the school for that, since the video only shows a beginners class.

"McDojo" generally refers to a business model based on extracting maximum cash from the student while providing sub-par instruction. The classic example would be a school that awards black belts to 8 year olds while charging their parents thousands of dollars for the process. Whether or not this school appeals to you, there's no evidence for it meeting that criteria.

Tony I'm not disputing I may have see school in person to get feel if it is good or not. May be they just got some bad inexperienced students for the promote videos. May be students with 5 years or more can do some really impressive moves like the Hapkido promote videos.

All I was saying is I seen other schools put up more impressive promote videos like the Tampa school that gives you the wow factor I want to train there ASAP.

Anyways I was just using the Jacksonville school as a example.

And anyways I don't know the big deal about it both the Tampa school or Jacksonville school are not in south east Florida.

I was looking for schools in south east Florida closer to Miami.

I just used these schools I came across doing a search.

If I moved to Tampa I probably would take school in Tampa .
 

Instructor

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Well are the Koreans even admitting that TKD came from Japanese Karate? Last I checked, they were still claiming it came from some ancient Korean art instead of Shotokan.

Not sure what the Koreans are saying but most of the folks in USA admit it freely.
 

Spinedoc

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I would also just add to be careful with using belt color to evaluate anything. In aikido, there are no colored belts. You are a white belt, until you are a black belt, and then you wear a hakama. SO, if you are not yudansha, in most aikido systems, you will be a white belt. Which means you can have a 1st kyu who is pretty advanced and can probably put you down, who will be wearing a white belt.

Belt color only means something if the art you practice says it does. It's not universal.
 

Instructor

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In my school we use the belt system to track progress but if you come to my class you'll notice nobody is actually wearing colored belts. LOL
 
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