MMA a style?

[Deleted member 39746]

MMA is a rule set. Because you can compete under MMA rules.

It is a style because physical MMA training exists.

And it is also a concept because is a combination of other styles.

I dispute concept being used for that. Its literal meaning is Mixed Martial Arts, thus its a mixture of martial arts, any mixture of martial arts. Or if you compete under its rules using one martial art. Just the last one seems off to me.

To be fair the neuance can be pretty complicated, like there are still people who say it is soley a ruleset, ignoring the fact that if a gym teaches you to fight in a MMA ruleset it makes it pretty much a style. Even if it is a mixture of several ones, as none of them are pure anymore.

 

[drop bear]

I dispute concept being used for that. Its literal meaning is Mixed Martial Arts, thus its a mixture of martial arts, any mixture of martial arts. Or if you compete under its rules using one martial art. Just the last one seems off to me.

To be fair the neuance can be pretty complicated, like there are still people who say it is soley a ruleset, ignoring the fact that if a gym teaches you to fight in a MMA ruleset it makes it pretty much a style. Even if it is a mixture of several ones, as none of them are pure anymore.

The concept is an anti isolationist one. So it is not just a martial art it is the creation of a martial community.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

The concept is an anti isolationist one. So it is not just a martial art it is the creation of a martial community.

I mean a community comes with any activity, it is inherent. If people enjoy doing said activity they will make a group around doing it.

But onto isolationism, i dont know about that one. Arent some people who do MMA pretty vocally aganst some things that are either in MMA (that they dont know are) or they dont percive to work in MMA but can be mixed in?

Im kind of on a tangent here.

 

[Steve]

I mean a community comes with any activity, it is inherent. If people enjoy doing said activity they will make a group around doing it.

But onto isolationism, i dont know about that one. Arent some people who do MMA pretty vocally aganst some things that are either in MMA (that they dont know are) or they dont percive to work in MMA but can be mixed in?

Im kind of on a tangent here.

I think it's the opposite. Nothing seems to energize the sport more than seeing an infusion of something new. BJJ, then Sambo, then it was wrestling... then judo with Karo Parisyan (remember him?). Karate, TKD. All that to say, if someone were to demonstrate some success using identifiable Wing Chun or Aikido fighting skills, people would be thrilled.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Arent some people who do MMA pretty vocally aganst some things that are either in MMA (that they dont know are) or they dont percive to work in MMA but can be mixed in?

Not that I've encountered from the folks I train with.

 

[skribs]

But onto isolationism, i dont know about that one. Arent some people who do MMA pretty vocally aganst some things that are either in MMA (that they dont know are) or they dont percive to work in MMA but can be mixed in?

I've heard that plenty online. For example, people who say head kicks are useless in a fight, in spite of plenty of KOs in the UFC coming from head kicks (as well as them being relatively common in Muay Thai and kickboxing as well).

Usually this is a result of someone who can't do something, and rather than accept that fact, they just disrespect anyone who can do it.

 

[Steve]

I've heard that plenty online. For example, people who say head kicks are useless in a fight, in spite of plenty of KOs in the UFC coming from head kicks (as well as them being relatively common in Muay Thai and kickboxing as well).

Usually this is a result of someone who can't do something, and rather than accept that fact, they just disrespect anyone who can do it.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I've heard that plenty online. For example, people who say head kicks are useless in a fight, in spite of plenty of KOs in the UFC coming from head kicks (as well as them being relatively common in Muay Thai and kickboxing as well).

Usually this is a result of someone who can't do something, and rather than accept that fact, they just disrespect anyone who can do it.

Yeah, but that’s not generally people who actually train MMA.

 

[drop bear]

I've heard that plenty online. For example, people who say head kicks are useless in a fight, in spite of plenty of KOs in the UFC coming from head kicks (as well as them being relatively common in Muay Thai and kickboxing as well).

Usually this is a result of someone who can't do something, and rather than accept that fact, they just disrespect anyone who can do it.

They are generally RBSD guys who are keen for the low line kick. Because apparently you can grab the kick and take them down or something.

MMA pretty much has disproved the theory that high kicks are more risk than they are worth.

Even fighting on a super slippery surface. Isn't much of an argument. Because you are basically slipping over throwing anything. So low kicks are not a solution there.

I had a guy consistently quote his military cqc training to justify that nonsense.

Line training I think.

 

[drop bear]

I mean a community comes with any activity, it is inherent. If people enjoy doing said activity they will make a group around doing it.

But onto isolationism, i dont know about that one. Arent some people who do MMA pretty vocally aganst some things that are either in MMA (that they dont know are) or they dont percive to work in MMA but can be mixed in?

Im kind of on a tangent here.

Not a multi discipline community in martial arts.

That is a fairly new concept. Along with martial arts tourism.

E.g..
Matsurfing - a free couchsurfing service for BJJ | BJJ Globetrotters

You would be highly unlikely to find this concept in any other art.

 

[Buka]

Not a multi discipline community in martial arts.

That is a fairly new concept. Along with martial arts tourism.

E.g..
Matsurfing - a free couchsurfing service for BJJ | BJJ Globetrotters

You would be highly unlikely to find this concept in any other art.

What a wonderful idea, what a wonderful thing. Oh, man, that’s just awesome.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Not a multi discipline community in martial arts.

That is a fairly new concept. Along with martial arts tourism.

E.g..
Matsurfing - a free couchsurfing service for BJJ | BJJ Globetrotters

You would be highly unlikely to find this concept in any other art.

A JKD school that I did a trial at touted that they had this. Had people in a couple different countries participating (along with a bunch of different states). Outside of that, yeah, haven't come across it.

 

[skribs]

Yeah, but that’s not generally people who actually train MMA.

How do you know what they do or don't?

 

[Steve]

How do you know what they do or don't?

I could say TKD guys are always going on about how punches don't matter, because kicks have longer reach. how is that different from what you're saying?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

How do you know what they do or don't?

Well I don’t know what online persons you’re talking about. Maybe you’ve found some actual MMA practitioners who are somehow ignorant of MMA. What I do know is that I’ve trained with MMA practitioners from many gyms and followed many more online. None of them has expressed the sentiments you mention.

 

[skribs]

Well I don’t know what online persons you’re talking about. Maybe you’ve found some actual MMA practitioners who are somehow ignorant of MMA. What I do know is that I’ve trained with MMA practitioners from many gyms and followed many more online. None of them has expressed the sentiments you mention.

Well, these aren't the type of people with followers. I see that type of discussion a lot on Reddit. I also see that type of discussion a lot on here. Not specifically head kicks, but some of the biggest proponents for MMA I see on this forum are of the mindset that if they don't train it, it's not worth training.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Well, these aren't the type of people with followers. I see that type of discussion a lot on Reddit. I also see that type of discussion a lot on here. Not specifically head kicks, but some of the biggest proponents for MMA I see on this forum are of the mindset that if they don't train it, it's not worth training.

I think a more accurate description of the people you’re talking about on this forum are that if they don’t see evidence of it working under pressure live (in the ring, the cage, or elsewhere), then they don’t consider themselves obligated to accept that it’s useful in a fight. (Although it might be worth training for other reasons such as exercise or cultural heritage.)

I’d also note that those MMA advocates on this forum are generally respectful of techniques and arts they do see working, even if they don’t practice it themselves. For example, drop bear doesn’t train Dog Brothers Martial Arts, but I’m pretty certain that he respects what they do and accepts it as a highly functional martial art.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Some comments on several good points made here regarding head kicks:

Chance of slipping on head kicks - I have seen many fall on their butts doing high kicks on a sweaty, slippery dojo floor (myself included) but have never seen someone (adults)slip on a low or even mid level kick. High kicks are inherently less stable than most other techniques.

Head kicks work in MMA, sometimes spectacularly - true, but not that often and only by proficient kickers. Important to note that groin kicks are not allowed. If they were, I bet there would be a lot less head kicking. They also work in karate competitions, but that is also facilitated by the rules which encourage longer range attacks; close in elbows, joint attacks, knees and forearms not being awarded points in general, so the engagement distance is typically further than in very CQC or old Okinawan karate.
,
The opponent's style has something to do with it, too. Some aggressive close in guys will take great advantage of an attempted high kick, such as mentioned above. Throwing a head kick that misses with the opponent in good position to counter is very bad, especially if the situation allows for groin attacks, in which case its very, very bad.

Having normal hip joints, I can't head kick a guy 6 foot, 4 inches tall even when I was 20 years old. Someone 5 foot, 4 inches, I'll probably go for it if its the right move, but most of the time I can use a mid kick to set up a head punch just as easily, and safer. Might fake a head kick, though, just to keep the opponent guessing.

So, based on the above, I think that in a few situations, a high kick or two may be OK, but in general, across the board in various scenarios, they do not seem like the best option to me.

 

[Saheim]

I dispute concept being used for that. Its literal meaning is Mixed Martial Arts, thus its a mixture of martial arts, any mixture of martial arts. Or if you compete under its rules using one martial art. Just the last one seems off to me.

To be fair the neuance can be pretty complicated, like there are still people who say it is soley a ruleset, ignoring the fact that if a gym teaches you to fight in a MMA ruleset it makes it pretty much a style. Even if it is a mixture of several ones, as none of them are pure anymore.

If that is the ruler we're going to use, then all ANY of us train is MMA. Not only would that criteria make it a style, it would make it the ONLY style.

 

[skribs]

I think a more accurate description of the people you’re talking about on this forum are that if they don’t see evidence of it working under pressure live (in the ring, the cage, or elsewhere), then they don’t consider themselves obligated to accept that it’s useful in a fight. (Although it might be worth training for other reasons such as exercise or cultural heritage.)

I’d also note that those MMA advocates on this forum are generally respectful of techniques and arts they do see working, even if they don’t practice it themselves. For example, drop bear doesn’t train Dog Brothers Martial Arts, but I’m pretty certain that he respects what they do and accepts it as a highly functional martial art.

I don't want to start talking about Drop Bear, but you highlighted my point. He's selectively respectful. Which means he isn't respectful.