Why does someone start their own style?

[Balrog]

GM H. U. Lee was teaching Gen. Choi's forms when he founded the ATA. He felt that there wasn't enough emphasis on kicking - after all, Korean martial arts are supposed to be all about kicking - so he designed the Songahm style. There is much more emphasis on kicking in the forms, and the forms are designed to be symetrical, forcing the student to show techniques on both sides of the body.

This wasn't politics, per se, but a difference in philosophy and teaching style.

 

[stoneheart]

The best reason I can think to create a new style is to follow the ATA or Krav Maga model for business reasons. Come up with new forms that can be copyrighted, and some slogans and teaching principles and a style name that are worded differently enough so you can trademark them. Next, create a whole slew of merchandise and curriculum materials that can be mass produced and sold.

It would take a decent sized capital investment (.5 million?) to do it right and launch your business, but I think there's room in the market for another ATA or Krav Maga competitor.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I think some people just find the best way for themselves, and that may mean changing some things they learned, or bringing in elements from other arts that work well together and complement each other. Then they teach what they know. I guess this is sort of a "new" style, regardless of whether or not the guy gives it a new name. But so what? I think we all should ultimately do this, and it has nothing to do with marketing or making money. You need to walk your own path, as did your teachers, and as your students must.

Historically I believe what you describe here is the natural progression of the martial arts. A student learns a system and for whatever reason he goes to another instructor for more instruction. From the new instructor he gains knowledge, and he might go train in another style and from that he learns more knowledge. Finally after several years of learning he accquires a few students and he teaches what he knows. He probably isn't teaching each as a pure system but he is instead teaching a composite of the different styles or systems that he learned.

Of course I believe the dedication of the students and manner of instruction back in the days of old to be drastically different than today and I believe for the most part the students had a more in depth knowledge of the arts then we do today.

 

[Mark Lynn]

The best reason I can think to create a new style is to follow the ATA or Krav Maga model for business reasons. Come up with new forms that can be copyrighted, and some slogans and teaching principles and a style name that are worded differently enough so you can trademark them. Next, create a whole slew of merchandise and curriculum materials that can be mass produced and sold.

It would take a decent sized capital investment (.5 million?) to do it right and launch your business, but I think there's room in the market for another ATA or Krav Maga competitor.

I am sure that for some the best reason is a new business model, but I don't think that is what is was back in the days gone by. If you want to teach martial arts to the masses than generally you water down the system or create something new in a niche market. Another way would be to add something to the system like belt ranks etc. etc. to draw out the instruction longer.

But I believe that the best way to learn is through practice and teaching, and if you have experience in several systems it is only natrual that after X amount of time you would begin to teach new students to keep your skills up and if you are teaching what you know, you are teaching your own way if it is different from an organization's curriculmn. And for the most part I believe this is and has been the best reason to create a new system.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I am wondering, what causes someone to "create" their own style of MA, be it an off shoot of what they originally learned or a MMA?

Is it cause they think the style they primarily train in is lacking?
Is it cause they think the style they have learned has lost its way from it's roots?
Is it a vanity thing, they think they know better and want to be called a Grand Master or whatever?

Or is it something else?

Though I don't know if anyone at MT has created their own style, I am hoping maybe you can still provide some insight into the thought process behind the creation of a new Art.

Well for the two I know of who "Created" or "founded" their own system it was about change.

Manong (GM) Anciong Bacon had his training dagger removed for stabbing people so they would bleed from it. So he started to practice and investigate and optimize his techniques for single stick. Bacon went by 'noy Anciong or Manong Anciong. Not Grand Master. Manoy or Manong are both simple signs of respect of an eldar.

The other being GM Remy Presas who used his training from his family and others systems. He also had done some modifications to make the art more friendly to those who trained. Less injuries. He used the title Father of Modern Arnis. Others started calling him Master and others after that Grand Master.

In both cases these men wanted to present what they had, but not to call it something it was not. So they did their own thing.

 

[Ping898]

Thank you all for the information. I appreciate the insights

 

[14 Kempo]

For some, coming from 'unnamed' organizations, it can strictly be business ethics, models, or marketing strategies with which we disagree. Some love to teach, but they disagree with the business end of things, so much so, that it no longer makes sense to instruct for such an organization. For certain organizations, some have been asked to volunteer their time for the good of the art, which is fine until the hours become a fulltime job in and of itself, then they decide to move on, away from that organization and do their own thing.

Think maybe I may have some experience with this?

Let's just say, I've moved on. What the future holds is yet untold.

 

[kidswarrior]

Historically I believe what you describe here is the natural progression of the martial arts. A student learns a system and for whatever reason he goes to another instructor for more instruction. From the new instructor he gains knowledge, and he might go train in another style and from that he learns more knowledge. Finally after several years of learning he accquires a few students and he teaches what he knows. He probably isn't teaching each as a pure system but he is instead teaching a composite of the different styles or systems that he learned.

But I believe that the best way to learn is through practice and teaching, and if you have experience in several systems it is only natrual that after X amount of time you would begin to teach new students to keep your skills up and if you are teaching what you know, you are teaching your own way if it is different from an organization's curriculmn. And for the most part I believe this is and has been the best reason to create a new system.

Pretty much my story. :high5:

 

[MarkBarlow]

I'm curious. Would the posters here mind listing their age and the time they've been training? I think it might be pertinent to their viewpoint.

I'll go first.
49 yrs old and this is my 31st year of training. In that time, the longest I've gone without being in a dojo is just over 2 weeks. On average, I've been on the mat 3 to 4 nights a week.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Did I say something wrong? I'm not trying to step on toes but I think how long you've trained and how old you are has a great deal to do with your viewpoint. I'm curious to see if I'm right.

 

[14 Kempo]

I don't think you asked anything that was improper and whether or not it is pertinent, I don't mind stating my age and experience ...

I'm 47 years of age and started in 1985. I took an extended break in the 90's. I've been studying, officially, for about 12 years overall.

 

[kidswarrior]

I'm curious. Would the posters here mind listing their age and the time they've been training? I think it might be pertinent to their viewpoint.

I'll go first.
49 yrs old and this is my 31st year of training. In that time, the longest I've gone without being in a dojo is just over 2 weeks. On average, I've been on the mat 3 to 4 nights a week.

Hi Mr. Barlow. That information is in each poster's profile, if they wish for it to be public. You can freely access it by clicking on their name, then Profile when the drop down menu appears.
Mark

 

[MarkBarlow]

Hi Mr. Barlow. That information is in each poster's profile, if they wish for it to be public. You can freely access it by clicking on their name, then Profile when the drop down menu appears.
Mark

Thanks. It just goes to show that you're never too old to learn something new and useful.

 

[kidswarrior]

Thanks. It just goes to show that you're never too old to learn something new and useful.

You're welcome. :asian: A friend of mine says his father always told him, When you're done learning, you're done. Sure true for me.

 

[bigfootsquatch]

my instructor "created" the style we do for the simple reason that he has studied several different styles and wanted to teach what he felt worked best. His original style was a form of wushu and tai chi which he studied in China while stationed in Vietnam. He then studied tkd back here in the usa. He was also involved in a lot of Aikido with Sensei Bill Sosa(passed away a couple of years or so ago). He also had a lot of combat experience in Vietnam(I'm probably the only student who knows, not something advertised to draw attention) so I'm sure that influenced a lot of what he done.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that creating a style usually comes from one wanting to meld everything he/she has learned into one style.

 

[MarkBarlow]

my instructor "created" the style we do for the simple reason that he has studied several different styles and wanted to teach what he felt worked best. His original style was a form of wushu and tai chi which he studied in China while stationed in Vietnam. He then studied tkd back here in the usa. He was also involved in a lot of Aikido with Sensei Bill Sosa(passed away a couple of years or so ago). He also had a lot of combat experience in Vietnam(I'm probably the only student who knows, not something advertised to draw attention) so I'm sure that influenced a lot of what he done.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that creating a style usually comes from one wanting to meld everything he/she has learned into one style.

In a perfect world, every style would be this combination of solid training and real world experience.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm curious. Would the posters here mind listing their age and the time they've been training? I think it might be pertinent to their viewpoint.

I'll go first.
49 yrs old and this is my 31st year of training. In that time, the longest I've gone without being in a dojo is just over 2 weeks. On average, I've been on the mat 3 to 4 nights a week.

I'm 36, and I began training in 1984 in 8th grade. I've been training ever since, altho there have been periods when I did not have an instructor. During those times, I just practiced what I knew, to the best of my ability.

My kung fu sifu has trained in several Chinese arts, and he teaches me whatever I am interested in learning. This has included elements of Tibetan White Crane, Shaolin, Tai Chi Chuan, and others. While I am most focused on White Crane, that has not stopped him from teaching me these other elements as well, and I appreciate this very much. He does not claim to have founded a new system. He just teaches what he has learned from over 40 years in the martial arts, and it runs a wide range of Chinese arts. He does always make it clear to me where the material is from, so that I understand the history.

Even in Tracy Kenpo, we see this. The Tracys have incorporated elements of Chinese and Japanese arts into our method of kenpo, stuff that they definitely did not learn from Ed Parker. This material has now become part of our art, and things grow and change...

I don't teach at this point in my life. Perhaps someday I will. I suspect I would take an approach similar to my sifu, and teach what my student might wish to learn, so long as I trusted him/her and felt he was capable of learning it.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm curious. Would the posters here mind listing their age and the time they've been training? I think it might be pertinent to their viewpoint.

I'll go first.
49 yrs old and this is my 31st year of training. In that time, the longest I've gone without being in a dojo is just over 2 weeks. On average, I've been on the mat 3 to 4 nights a week.

Well I am only 40. I have been training for 21 + years in a formal setting. Before that I just got my butt kicked until I would get mad and fight back and then usually hurt someone so they had to go to the hospital.


Why is this important information for this thread?

 

[MarkBarlow]

Why is this important information for this thread?

Like I said, I was just curious. It seems that opinions on folks starting their own styles is often divided by age. The younger the poster, the more ready they are to break away. Again, we're sharing opinions, I'm not being critical of anyone here or of their viewpoint.

I trained with one instructor for 20 years. The only reason I no longer train with him is because he passed away. I still continue to teach the system he taught me. I've left a handful of organizations for different reasons but still teach the system I was promoted in. Have I made changes? A few minor ones but it's still very much the system my sensei taught. I don't feel capable of creating a new system. I'd rather stand on the shoulders of giants and benefit from their experience and guidance.

Maybe we're just differing on semantics. Rather than creating a new style, it seems some of the posters here have just broken ties with organizations or former instructors. They're still teaching their core system although changes have been made due to exposure to new arts. Kano, Oyama and Ueshiba took their new arts in different directions from their parent styles. I don't think anyone would say that Aikido is just another form of Daito Ryu or that Kyokushin Kai is simply modified Goju/Shotokan.

 

[Carol]

Personally I think it is a bit of a disservice to see a style (or head-of-system, or a set of schools) get established for its rigor and martial discipline, and then see a school owner ape the name of the style/instructor/schools.......but not want to make the sacrifices needed to do the reputation justice.

I also think sometimes starting a different system is a way of properly setting a student's expectations.

I would much rather be training at "Sifu Sam's School-o-Sticks" and have Sifu Sam tell me that he did some Modern Arnis and some Chinese stickfighting and he'll teach me what he's put together for a program. That way I get a feel for what I am I'm learning and I can make my own decision as to whether Sifu Sam has what I'm looking for or not.....instead of training in something called "Modern Arnis" and learning only after the fact that I wasn't held to the same rigor as other students in the lineage of GM Remy Presas.

Starting a separate system doesn't always have to be about ego. Sometimes its about honesty.


As far as training *shrug* I'm just a noob.