McDojo question again...

[Faye]

Hi all, the more I read about McDojos, the more confused I get. Does "black belt society"/contract make a dojo a Mcdojo? When one's a beginner, how do you judge the quality of instruction? We don't know better! I like my dojo, but it's very expensive. Does expensive make it a McDojo too? This dojo self proclaimed to be a traditional school, and concentrate more on self defense than tournament, but without attending a sports oriented school, I'm can't tell whether this is true or not. Any pointers?
They do not have contracts here at all, and belt testing fee is merely $25, and the belt ranks is the same as other schools, without those second degree yellow pending green, thingy...
Most of this group's member are from UK, if anyone know of a good dojo in the bay area (San Francisco), please let me know!

 

[terryl965]

No Faye it does not, although I personaly don't like the BlackBelt society, to political for me, sound traditional but who knows if you are happing and feel you are learning what you need then it's a perfect fit for you and that is all that matters. Remember over the century's nobody alive really knows what happen, all hearsay, to many spilts in the martial arts to really know the truth except what people tell you and you must know by now story's will always change per person telling it... God Bless America

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Mcdojo's prices and quality is proportional to Mcdonald's prices and quality. Just think about that analogy and you get the picture. Maybe you don't want to think about it. It might give you nightmares. LOL

 

[Han-Mi]

I have a feeling that our words will not set you at ease. Questioning your scholl can be a good learning experience. My suggestion would be to look around and go to a few other schools, watch their classes, and see what they do. also, take it upon yourself to find a tournament in your area and enter. See how you compare to others near your rank and experience. You can learn a lot from these 2 simple activities. As a newbie, you won't understand it all now, but you'll understand it enough and you will look back on it when you really know what you're doin'. Let me know if you do this and how it goes.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hi all, the more I read about McDojos, the more confused I get. Does "black belt society"/contract make a dojo a Mcdojo? When one's a beginner, how do you judge the quality of instruction? We don't know better! I like my dojo, but it's very expensive. Does expensive make it a McDojo too? This dojo self proclaimed to be a traditional school, and concentrate more on self defense than tournament, but without attending a sports oriented school, I'm can't tell whether this is true or not. Any pointers?
They do not have contracts here at all, and belt testing fee is merely $25, and the belt ranks is the same as other schools, without those second degree yellow pending green, thingy...
Most of this group's member are from UK, if anyone know of a good dojo in the bay area (San Francisco), please let me know!

Mc Dojo Is an unfair term that one school gives another school. I suggest you reject that term and be objective whenever possible. Don't let someone elses lable effect common sense decision making :asian: .
Sean

 

[Ceicei]

Also, remember the term "McDojo" is subjective. What one may call a McDojo may not be for another person. It is all in what you gain out of going to that place. If the pros are more than the cons, why would it matter? If you like and enjoy being there, is it worth the investment? But if you are feeling uncomfortable for any reason (red flags), then it may be a good idea to look closer at what you are getting and look around.

As a newbie, it is hard to make comparisons; don't let what others say sway you to make decisions for you--trust yourself. What others say and think will differ from what you think and feel.

- Ceicei

 

[Gary Crawford]

I have spent the last month(wasted) my time at what I consider a McDojo.If you have read "Burt Offerings" in "Inside Kung Fu" magazine by Burt Richardson you will find a list of questions you have to ask yourself about self defense techniques.The jist of the article sugests that self defense techniques should be tested against a partner who is resisting 100%.I didn't even half to put the self defense techniques that were taught there to that test to know they were BS.If a school is teaching material that does not make any sense,then it won't work in a real scenerio.A really good martial arts instructor will impress you and make total sense to you from the start.Anything less is a McDojo."Welcome to McDojo! Can I take your money now?!"

 

[matt.m]

My definition of a McDojo would be the following. "Contracts that guarantee a blackbelt in 2 and a half years that eft money out of your bank account and oh by the way if you pay a little extra, like a grand up front you will be a 2nd dan in 3 and a half to 4 yrs."

It is like having a gym membership to "Gold's or any other commercial fitness place."

 

[Sylo]

Hi all, the more I read about McDojos, the more confused I get. Does "black belt society"/contract make a dojo a Mcdojo? When one's a beginner, how do you judge the quality of instruction? We don't know better! I like my dojo, but it's very expensive. Does expensive make it a McDojo too? This dojo self proclaimed to be a traditional school, and concentrate more on self defense than tournament, but without attending a sports oriented school, I'm can't tell whether this is true or not. Any pointers?
They do not have contracts here at all, and belt testing fee is merely $25, and the belt ranks is the same as other schools, without those second degree yellow pending green, thingy...
Most of this group's member are from UK, if anyone know of a good dojo in the bay area (San Francisco), please let me know!

Honestly.

None of the things we look for that make a "Mcdojo" always defines it as such. For example..

My school...

1. Has contracts
2. Has belt testing fees
3. Has the pending striped belts
4. Has alot of kids

But, 1. the contracts are fine because his prices are extremely low. On top of that we live in an area where its common place for people to stiff you if you don't have a way to guarantee they pay you. He's not stiff on the fees, and if you can't pay directly on the day its due he doesn't tack on late fees. He works with you as much as he can, and He is CHEAP.. probably cheaper than any school I have ever seen. 36.00 a month.

2. Belt testing fees are 30 bucks. However, I get a nice belt.. a nice laminated certificate and usually he has 1-2 special guest judges that come from as far as states away. So to me its totally worth the price.

3. He has the "striped" belts, because its just more official than tape. We don't spend anymore time at the belts than we did before we switched to this method, and it seems to keep the kids more motivated to come to class.. which while this may seem mcdojo.. its something that I don't see taking away from our instruction.

4. He has alot of kids, but only 1 is black belt.. and he's 13-14.. and he's good. He knows his stuff, and he comes all the time. He's respectful, courteus, and helps out the lower ranks. There are some kids who don't reflect their rank.. but the problem with kids.. is they change at the drop of a hat. One day, they may be sloppy and the next day they may not be. In the end, they will know the material before they test for black belt. and thats all that matters IMO.


I went to another school... and it WAS a mcdojo.. let me describe it to give you an idea why <insert reason here> does not always mean mcdojo.

1. He had lots of belts.. there was no black belt, and there were non standard color belts.

2. He taught his own martial art, based off bits and pieces of several other arts. None of it really made sense, or fit together.

3. No contracts. But his prices were extremely high, and you had to pay for everything. I mean EVERYTHING. Even special events.. there would be some sort of fee to get money out of you.

4. He had all sorts of extra stuff for you to do.. Weapons, MMA.. etc. You couldn't opt out of any of it, and you had to pay for all of it to get only what you wanted. You had to pay for the weapons classes even if you never attended them.

5. The classes were not structured, and some of the stuff we did was assinine and made no sense at all. even a beginner would have been able to tell... "why are we doing this again?".

6. Kids and adults were seperated. Kids had their own ranking system and curriculum. The kids class was more "daycare" than actual training.

7. Instructor had all sorts of rank given to him via seminars. He could only legitimately prove one of his certifications. And the one he could prove, was not even what he teaches. Everything he taught was learned at seminars/video tapes.

See the difference?