McDojo or not?
- Thread starter JesterX
- Start date
It all depends on what your getting for your money. There are many expenses involved in running a commercial school.
Fee's vary, but you have to look at what your total monthly expense to train is. Some schools proclaim that they never charge "testing fees". That may be nice, but what are there other fees per month? Some schools may charge low training fees, but high testing fees. Some schools make you buy various uniforms, equipment, videos, booklets, weapons, etc. Some have various association fees. So again it comes down to how much total you are paying a month.
In a commercial school the owner/instructor is going to have to bring in enough money to cover his business expenses, and the amount he desires for income.
So now back to my first sentence. What are you getting for your money? Take a look at several schools if you can. Or at least a few.
1. How does the quality of instruction compare?
2. How does the experience of the instructors compare?
3. How do the facilities and schedule compare?
4. How long has the school been around?
Price and fancy studios are not always the best indicators of the quality of instruction you will receive. There are quite a few novice black belts operating fancy franchise locations, that have less experience then some green belts.
But there is nothing wrong with paying top dollar for training, as long as you are getting top quality instruction.
Fee's vary, but you have to look at what your total monthly expense to train is. Some schools proclaim that they never charge "testing fees". That may be nice, but what are there other fees per month? Some schools may charge low training fees, but high testing fees. Some schools make you buy various uniforms, equipment, videos, booklets, weapons, etc. Some have various association fees. So again it comes down to how much total you are paying a month.
In a commercial school the owner/instructor is going to have to bring in enough money to cover his business expenses, and the amount he desires for income.
So now back to my first sentence. What are you getting for your money? Take a look at several schools if you can. Or at least a few.
1. How does the quality of instruction compare?
2. How does the experience of the instructors compare?
3. How do the facilities and schedule compare?
4. How long has the school been around?
Price and fancy studios are not always the best indicators of the quality of instruction you will receive. There are quite a few novice black belts operating fancy franchise locations, that have less experience then some green belts.
But there is nothing wrong with paying top dollar for training, as long as you are getting top quality instruction.
Hmmm, what Mr. Bishop said is hard to disagree with.
One more thing to take into consideration though....yellow belts themselves are inexpensive, and certificates can be printed up very cheaply...so unless that certificate is engraved with gold, most of that 80 dollars has to be going to the people being paid to test the student. Who is testing the yellow belt...a panel of judges or just the head instructor? How long is the test?
My EPAK yellow belt test was a quick affair that lasted under one hour and only involved the head instructor; it was quite a bit cheaper than the 80 dollars. I feel that the small amount I did pay was appropriate.
So if somebody's asking you for 80 dollars to cover that test, there'd better be a panel of black belts overseeing the test (or it had better be well over one hour long) or I'd suspect serious profiteering.
One more thing to take into consideration though....yellow belts themselves are inexpensive, and certificates can be printed up very cheaply...so unless that certificate is engraved with gold, most of that 80 dollars has to be going to the people being paid to test the student. Who is testing the yellow belt...a panel of judges or just the head instructor? How long is the test?
My EPAK yellow belt test was a quick affair that lasted under one hour and only involved the head instructor; it was quite a bit cheaper than the 80 dollars. I feel that the small amount I did pay was appropriate.
So if somebody's asking you for 80 dollars to cover that test, there'd better be a panel of black belts overseeing the test (or it had better be well over one hour long) or I'd suspect serious profiteering.
In most commercial schools in the So. Cal area, monthly training tuition averages around $100-$200. Most lower belt tests are $20-$40.
Now if a instructor here is charging you $200 dollars a month, and his lower belt testing fees are $80, he should be the quality of Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, etc. And if the lower belt testing fees are that high, how high will testing fees go? I know several people who have quit the martial arts because they could not afford the escalating test fees. Black belt testing fees that were in $1000-$5000 range.
But if the instructor is charging you pretty low monthly tuition, and every few months makes a little more money from higher then normal testing fees, it's probably not unreasonable.
Again, look at the total amount your paying a month for your training? And figure out if the training experience worth it?
Now if a instructor here is charging you $200 dollars a month, and his lower belt testing fees are $80, he should be the quality of Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, etc. And if the lower belt testing fees are that high, how high will testing fees go? I know several people who have quit the martial arts because they could not afford the escalating test fees. Black belt testing fees that were in $1000-$5000 range.
But if the instructor is charging you pretty low monthly tuition, and every few months makes a little more money from higher then normal testing fees, it's probably not unreasonable.
Again, look at the total amount your paying a month for your training? And figure out if the training experience worth it?
From an "art" point of view:
Having come up through the ranks in several systems, all w/o testing fees...
.. and as I'm currently teaching at a University where we view the test as another teaching event of the class, instead of any sort of monumentous event...
I have a hard time associating the thought of any type of testing fee with the learning/training process...
[full stop]
From a "business" point of view:
I do understand the need to run a profitable business...
... and the need to impart a sense of "value" to the numerous belt colors and ranks...
... and the need to create a monumentous event in the act of "testing"...
all so the customer feels they are getting something for their monthly fee... and would hopefully therefore stick around to continue the profit stream... [ think carrot on the stick ]
[full stop]
But $80 for a yellow belt?!? That seems a little high to me...
I'd have to agree with Mr. Bishop, they'd better have some high profile instructors for that fee...
Having come up through the ranks in several systems, all w/o testing fees...
.. and as I'm currently teaching at a University where we view the test as another teaching event of the class, instead of any sort of monumentous event...
I have a hard time associating the thought of any type of testing fee with the learning/training process...
[full stop]
From a "business" point of view:
I do understand the need to run a profitable business...
... and the need to impart a sense of "value" to the numerous belt colors and ranks...
... and the need to create a monumentous event in the act of "testing"...
all so the customer feels they are getting something for their monthly fee... and would hopefully therefore stick around to continue the profit stream... [ think carrot on the stick ]
[full stop]
But $80 for a yellow belt?!? That seems a little high to me...
I'd have to agree with Mr. Bishop, they'd better have some high profile instructors for that fee...
GBlues
Purple Belt
I'll give you my opinion, and a little story. When I was in Aikido, the first test was $65 bucks, 2nd was $75, 3rd was $85 4th was $95 the fifth test which would have been 1st kyu on rank below blackbelt, was $105 bucks, and the black belt test was $120 bucks. Now, I don't have a problem with a guy making a buck, however, Aikido doesn't have belts, you get a certificate supposedly shipped from Japan. So my regular monthly fee was $65 bucks my first test is the same as my monthly fee and all I get is a certificate, that more than likely the instructor prints off of his computer. Ok that was my take. I paid the for the first test, and passed. Then I got to thinking about it, that sure doesn't feel right. I've heard various reasons for the charge. The one that makes me laugh the most it this one, "Well, the tests take time away from everybody else's learning experience so we have to charge you for the test. Plus we provide the belt and the certificate." Now wait a minute, a belt and a printed certificate doesn't cost $65 bucks. 25 at the most I would think. Personally I don't need a belt I could care less. At my To-Shindo school that I was attending, that do to lack of work I've had to take a break from. I made a point to ask if he charges for test, his response was this, "NO, the only charge is for the belt, because we like to put them on you when you pass, and you wouldn't be testing if you hadn't already passed. It's not really a test until you are testing for your blackbelt, it's more of a demonstration to show family and friends what you've learned. Afterwards we have a small potluck. If you can make it to see one it is strongly encouraged, because you want the support of your fellow students the same as they want yours." BIG Difference. I don't want to pay for a test. I'll pay for the belt, but I'm paying x-amount every month for instruction and personally I shouldn't be charged extra for a test. It's part of a martial arts instructors job to test you. That's my opinion on it.
If it takes time away from the other students learning well, it takes time from mine when they take there test. Is he going to give me a portion of the money that, that student paid him because I missed out on instruction that day? Hell no! He's putting it in his pocket. Guys that charge for tests in my mind, are ripping people off. 65 dollars for a belt, and a .50 cent certificate, bull crap. He's pocketing 45 bucks from every student. He's going to red lobster that night. LOL! You pay them for a service and if testing is a part of it, you shouldn't have to pay to take the test, if you want the belt and you've passed, great pay for and buy it, but otherwise, I don't feel that they should charge for that. That's a part of your training. Other people will disagree with me, and they definitely have the right too, but charging for a test you have to take in order to progress, in my mind is like your highschool charging 30 bucks for every math exam that you have to take. Can't graduate to the next grade level if you don't. So your forced to, and it isn't right, and is a very sore subject with me. There is running a business and being fair to people, and then there is running a business and trying to milk them for everything you can get. It's not right.
That's my opinion on testing, take it for what it's worth.
If it takes time away from the other students learning well, it takes time from mine when they take there test. Is he going to give me a portion of the money that, that student paid him because I missed out on instruction that day? Hell no! He's putting it in his pocket. Guys that charge for tests in my mind, are ripping people off. 65 dollars for a belt, and a .50 cent certificate, bull crap. He's pocketing 45 bucks from every student. He's going to red lobster that night. LOL! You pay them for a service and if testing is a part of it, you shouldn't have to pay to take the test, if you want the belt and you've passed, great pay for and buy it, but otherwise, I don't feel that they should charge for that. That's a part of your training. Other people will disagree with me, and they definitely have the right too, but charging for a test you have to take in order to progress, in my mind is like your highschool charging 30 bucks for every math exam that you have to take. Can't graduate to the next grade level if you don't. So your forced to, and it isn't right, and is a very sore subject with me. There is running a business and being fair to people, and then there is running a business and trying to milk them for everything you can get. It's not right.
That's my opinion on testing, take it for what it's worth.
