Disrespectful Students

Atlanta-Kenpo · Sep 18, 2003

Have any instructors out there had a student cuss you out and challenge you in the middle of class/belt exam?

That happened to myself and a fellow instructor in the middle of a belt exam. We told the student that he needed to show us more speed, power and intensity several times and then he just lost it and started cussing and telling us he could kick our A**'S.

It took every bit of self control and restraint that we had not to ripe his dam head off. We kicked him out of the school right then and there and told him he could never return.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? If not what would your reaction be to this student? By the way he was only 17yrs old

TheEdge883 · Sep 18, 2003

Where I study, he wouldn't be allowed back in either. Except before he left, he would be forced to prove his theory that he could kick our collective a**es (not in front of the class or test of course).

Shiatsu · Sep 18, 2003

Never seen it happen, however that is good self control on your part. I would have done the same, however if they kept pesisting. Sometimes lessons need to be taught.:asian:

Nightingale · Sep 19, 2003

well.... people usually don't just lose it for no reason...

what else was going on? how much pressure was he under for the grading?

Eggman · Sep 19, 2003

it happened to a female black belt in our school by a male brown belt. Lucky for him i was not present because even though her patience saved him a butt whooping, i would not have tolerated that instance. For legality sake, protective gear would be worn. HeHeHe!!!!!!

oldnewbie · Sep 19, 2003

Sounds like it was a great teaching moment, (for the other students) a bad examples can be a good lesson.

I agree with a previous post though, what was going on behind the scenes, (other than teenage testosternone (sp?)

MountainSage · Sep 19, 2003

I am not an instructor, yet I'm with nightingale on this issue. There is more to this situation than is being told. A student is a reflection of those that instructed him. Respect is earned to demand is one to live by.

Mountainsage

Michael Billings · Sep 19, 2003

Tough situation!!! I have never heard of anything like this. What belt was he testing for, and how long had he been in the school? Had he had any other training? The reason I am asking is to try to get some insight into why he went off. We all know 17 is a pretty violatile age, but something precipitated it, and it did not necessarily have anything to do with you.

Given the situation you did the exact right thing. If he wants to follow-up, or you do, just to get resolution (closure) or to find out where the hell that came from, give it some time and give him a follow up call. He may hang up ... I would expect this, but if not you may find out what went on with him, and if you or the other instructor in any way, even inadvertently, contributed to the situation ... not that his behavior was acceptable, whatever the reason.

There are lots of father transference issues at that age, even when the instructor is only a few years older. A disapproving Dad can cause bad feelings, and it is ok to get mad at one ... but not the other. I did a study on this between 1st and 2nd Black for a thesis and I was in grad. school at the time, so it was pretty interesting, and gave me some insights as to why I had such intense feeling, anger, approval seeking, etc. toward my teacher.

Those who are stating they would "make him prove it", gear or no gear, are dropping down to his level, and I find it totally inappropriate as a helpful response. So you are a Black Belt and can beat up a 17 year old kid. And what part of that would you be proud of? I can certainly understand you getting an adrenaline dump and "wanting" to punch his lights out, but hopefully that is a fantasy ... and what separates the Martial Artist from the brawler, the Teacher from the Student.

Yours in Kenpo,
-Michael Billings

LoneWolfandCub · Sep 19, 2003

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Tough situation!!! I have never heard of anything like this. What belt was he testing for, and how long had he been in the school? Had he had any other training? The reason I am asking is to try to get some insight into why he went off. We all know 17 is a pretty violatile age, but something precipitated it, and it did not necessarily have anything to do with you.

Given the situation you did the exact right thing. If he wants to follow-up, or you do, just to get resolution (closure) or to find out where the hell that came from, give it some time and give him a follow up call. He may hang up ... I would expect this, but if not you may find out what went on with him, and if you or the other instructor in any way, even inadvertently, contributed to the situation ... not that his behavior was acceptable, whatever the reason.

There are lots of father transference issues at that age, even when the instructor is only a few years older. A disapproving Dad can cause bad feelings, and it is ok to get mad at one ... but not the other. I did a study on this between 1st and 2nd Black for a thesis and I was in grad. school at the time, so it was pretty interesting, and gave me some insights as to why I had such intense feeling, anger, approval seeking, etc. toward my teacher.

Those who are stating they would "make him prove it", gear or no gear, are dropping down to his level, and I find it totally inappropriate as a helpful response. So you are a Black Belt and can beat up a 17 year old kid. And what part of that would you be proud of? I can certainly understand you getting an adrenaline dump and "wanting" to punch his lights out, but hopefully that is a fantasy ... and what separates the Martial Artist from the brawler, the Teacher from the Student.

Yours in Kenpo,
-Michael Billings

Well said Sir! Kudos to you! I agree :asian:

jeffkyle · Sep 19, 2003

Originally posted by LoneWolfandCub
Well said Sir! Kudos to you! I agree :asian:

Ditto!

MisterMike · Sep 19, 2003

Agreed. You just can't do that in this day and age.

But on a related note, hasn't Mr. Parker himself tossed people out. Perhaps they weren;t students, but just people coming in looking for a "lesson"?

I've met teachers who have literally thrown people OUT THE WINDOW, but that was a long time ago.

I think if you truely feel threatened for your safety or personal property or the safety of others, you should be able to defend yourself.

Cheers!

jeffkyle · Sep 19, 2003

Originally posted by MisterMike
Agreed. You just can't do that in this day and age.

But on a related note, hasn't Mr. Parker himself tossed people out. Perhaps they weren;t students, but just people coming in looking for a "lesson"?

I've met teachers who have literally thrown people OUT THE WINDOW, but that was a long time ago.

I think if you truely feel threatened for your safety or personal property or the safety of others, you should be able to defend yourself.

Cheers!

I am sure there comes a time in every studio where a student does something that requires them to be dismissed from the studio permanently.
30 years ago I am sure there were tons of people being "literally thrown out". Was it right then? Was gunfighting back in the 1800s right? Maybe yes, at the time, maybe no. But it happened. We should just learn from it as necessary and not recreate those situations again if possible.
:asian:

MisterMike · Sep 19, 2003

We should just learn from it as necessary and not recreate those situations again if possible.

Yes, We shouldn't, but it seems other people may still do so.

Is it right? Maybe not in the PC crowd. I guess it comes down to your values.

Ender · Sep 19, 2003

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Tough situation!!! I have never heard of anything like this. What belt was he testing for, and how long had he been in the school? Had he had any other training? The reason I am asking is to try to get some insight into why he went off. We all know 17 is a pretty violatile age, but something precipitated it, and it did not necessarily have anything to do with you.

Given the situation you did the exact right thing. If he wants to follow-up, or you do, just to get resolution (closure) or to find out where the hell that came from, give it some time and give him a follow up call. He may hang up ... I would expect this, but if not you may find out what went on with him, and if you or the other instructor in any way, even inadvertently, contributed to the situation ... not that his behavior was acceptable, whatever the reason.

There are lots of father transference issues at that age, even when the instructor is only a few years older. A disapproving Dad can cause bad feelings, and it is ok to get mad at one ... but not the other. I did a study on this between 1st and 2nd Black for a thesis and I was in grad. school at the time, so it was pretty interesting, and gave me some insights as to why I had such intense feeling, anger, approval seeking, etc. toward my teacher.

Those who are stating they would "make him prove it", gear or no gear, are dropping down to his level, and I find it totally inappropriate as a helpful response. So you are a Black Belt and can beat up a 17 year old kid. And what part of that would you be proud of? I can certainly understand you getting an adrenaline dump and "wanting" to punch his lights out, but hopefully that is a fantasy ... and what separates the Martial Artist from the brawler, the Teacher from the Student.

Yours in Kenpo,
-Michael Billings

very well thought out. I would want to react in this manner.

But in the moment it might be difficult to gather your thoughts and do this. something to think about.

Ender · Sep 19, 2003

oops..i meant to quote Mr Billings..sigh

Ender · Sep 19, 2003

oh!..I did..I think i need a nap...

Nightingale · Sep 19, 2003

:rofl: :roflmao:

opcorn:

Atlanta-Kenpo · Sep 19, 2003

I found out that he was previous removed from our school several years ago due to his involvment with local gangs. We allowed him back as a second chance but even though he may not be in the gangs the gangs still seem to be in him.

Keep up all the replies

Marcus Buonfiglio · Sep 19, 2003

Those who are stating they would "make him prove it", gear or no gear, are dropping down to his level, and I find it totally inappropriate as a helpful response. So you are a Black Belt and can beat up a 17 year old kid. And what part of that would you be proud of? I can certainly understand you getting an adrenaline dump and "wanting" to punch his lights out, but hopefully that is a fantasy ... and what separates the Martial Artist from the brawler, the Teacher from the Student.

Yours in Kenpo,
-Michael Billings [/B][/QUOTE]

Well said Mr. Billings. Rare is the individual that knows the complexity of being the Martial Artist, the Teacher and the perpetual student. You are one of those individuals. Salute

Marcus Buonfiglio
Universal Kenpo Federation

MA-Caver · Sep 19, 2003

Agreed with what everyone has said that you handled the situation as well as you could and it ended without any further altercation.
Yet I too am curious as to the details of the event for curiosity's sake. You did nothing wrong mind you because the student was being belligerent (and stupid, thinking that he could challenge everyone there).
There are two sides to every story... though we will probably not hear from the student which will probably be an overblown version of the events.
The situation obviously is unique because of the replies you've gotten to your orignal post. Kudos from me as well on how you handled the situation.

So take a moment and tell us.

Also kudos to Marcus for his post. It is indeed a fine line and that which seperates us from lower life forms known as bullies and jerks.

Ralph

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