Martial Arts Instructors and their fight experience

[Turner]

I have no problem with accepting that type of challenge. Mostly they are looking to stroke their ego and test their skills and aren't exactly looking to get hurt. So you set up some ground rules and spar. Make it something like the rules of a MMA fight where basically anything goes with the exception of eyes, throat, groin, fishhooking and finger breaking (and discourage the actual breaking of bones) and just go for it. People who want to stroke their ego and test their skills by being stupid enough to challenge someone are probably not wanting to get hurt. Noone wants to get hurt, so if they are smart they would accept the rules. If not and they press the issue, walk over to your training bag and pull out a big knife/sword or eskrima and go to work... real fight, no rules.

That is also one of my biggest fears though, in teaching. Where I grew up there was an instructor who was exceptionally fast. A tournament winner and all that sort of thing and one day someone walked into his Dojo and challenged him. "I hear you're fast." "That's what they say..." "I bet you're not faster than a bullet." <bang> He wasn't faster than the bullet.

Fighting against someone who is just interested in proving themselves to someone or to themselves is not going to be someone I am too horribly frightened of. What is the worse that could happen in the (challenge) fight? I could get bruised or bloodied, some bones broken and maybe a lot of bones broken. There is a potential for getting beaten to death, but if you are being challenged in your school your training partners better step in with some weapons. Nah, they are just looking for a brawl. Even if you lose you gain more knowledge about how to fight and what you can take in a fight. Life is short, have some fun!

The type you have to worry about are those that carry weapons and those that catch you when you're alone.

Of course, you can tell that I am one of those guys (Like Kirk and battousai) who would like to test out my skills but I don't go looking to do it. I don't pick fights and even when the opportunity presents itself where I would be justified I'll walk away first. If forced... I start smiling. It used to happen all the time when I was smaller. But I got rid of the glasses (the stupid things kept getting hit when I sparred or when I was forced to fight and they'd cut my face open and I hated that because in sparring they'd stop the bout...) and gained plenty (too much) weight and now noone sees me as the weak geek target that I used to be. I miss those days... they made me train harder.

 

[Chiduce]

Well, i'am not going to say yes or no to this question. Yet what i will say, is that my sifu accept's challenges to this day! Why, i do not know. he is an old schooler and he will say show me in a minute. Visit another school and see if the instructor is really teaching what he/she claims to be teaching. Now you could probably guess that i would be like him some what. The answer in this context is no; yet i do feel that the art should be tested at least several times against various situations to know what will and will not work for you in the actual real-time world. I have been in many street fights and i've learned that the best martial arts defense is to stay away from the fight all together if possible. My experience in this area is mine to share with whom i choose. If i do not wish to share this experience, then i do not have to! So, as an instructor it would depend upon the student's present situation in his/her particular environment. This would not mean that the other students would not get my type of understanding. It would only show that in time each one of them would begin to understand that the environment controls their destiny in the streets. Like i have always said; the barber is in the barber shop, not outside! So, do get cut by the wrong set of clippers. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Zoran]

Originally posted by Turner

I have no problem with accepting that type of challenge. Mostly they are looking to stroke their ego and test their skills and aren't exactly looking to get hurt. So you set up some ground rules and spar. Make it something like the rules of a MMA fight where basically anything goes with the exception of eyes, throat, groin, fishhooking and finger breaking (and discourage the actual breaking of bones) and just go for it. People who want to stroke their ego and test their skills by being stupid enough to challenge someone are probably not wanting to get hurt. Noone wants to get hurt, so if they are smart they would accept the rules. If not and they press the issue, walk over to your training bag and pull out a big knife/sword or eskrima and go to work... real fight, no rules.

I have to disagree with Turner on this. I don't like sport fighting, except as a training tool. I personally, would never except a challenge in that sort of event. My personal view is, "You want to fight me, then fight me! Or get out off my face!." Mostly this comes from my perception of the Martial Arts. To me it's about combat, survival, self-defense, and etc.

Just how I feel.:asian:

 

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by Turner

"Now, in my opinion... since I'm a Kenpo guy, I'll use an analogy... Let's say you want to take a driver safety course (I think Tony Bauer said this)... would you go in and be impressed with how many car crashes the instructor has been in? Of course not... you would want to see his clean driving record as proof that he is qualified to teach you how to stay safe. That is what the Martial Arts are about; teaching you how to stay safe and avoid trouble. So if I find out that my instructor has never been in a fight, I would assume that he is a pretty darn successful martial artist."

I beg to differ here Turner. I would definitely listen to a driving instructor that has been in a hairy situation compared to one that hasnt, because he has actually experienced it. ie, losing control of a high powered vehicle (like i have i own a big v8) you have to experience that to know how to counter how the car is moving in the actual real situation. I feel this is same for fighting. And i think it is an advantage for an instructor to have this experience. And you are deluded somewhat if you think martial arts is designed to avoid a fight. Martial arts was designed to hammer people who mess with you. Humility and respect and common sense or perhaps fear (of some type, whether it be lack of ability or from being hurt) stops people from having fights.

"To say that because I've been in some fights I am better able to teach is pretty much just bull."
Of course it is, I never said that, I was basically trying to say it is an advantage, if the guy doing the training had the other abilities a good trainer should have ie good social skills, ability to hold peoples attention, attention to technique detail etc etc. this armed with real fight experience is invaluable.

"I didn't think about strategy and tactics, I just thought about pressing the attack until the person was retreating so that I could cut and run. Throw a kick and show them that I will kick so that they move back and generally take a fake karate stance and give a little distance and I just use that distance as a headstart to run [/B]

"

Good stuff kick crap out of them, but just one piece of advice, never turn your back on an opponent until they are down on the ground in pain.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I used to walk to work all the time. Once in a while one of the local idiots would decide he wanted to see what I was carying in my gym bag. Usually it was clothing, if I was working a 24 hour shift, but I wasn't about to give it to any jerk. This lead to a few quick incounters with street violence and my walking away with my bag and sometimes the other guys knife or club.
The streets are a good place to find out what you know but remember most of these idiots today like to reach out and touch you as they drive by. Most of the time they like to play with odds of 3,4,or more on one.
Yes I have a street name because of these encoiuters and a few other reasons(mainly my age).
Shadow

 

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by Battousai



" Heh the local ninjutsu clan, they train in this one guys house and run around wooded areas.

"

excellent, do they where all that other ninja gear and carry all the weaponry?

 

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by Cthulhu

It also depends on environment and social conditions. Yip Man always told his students to not take his word for it...go out and test the system out. Many did just that, challenging other styles in challenge matches or using their skills on the streets. Supposedly, 50's and 60's Hong Kong was a perfect place for this type of activity.

Cthulhu

yep i remember reading something about this. Im eagerly awaiting my mates phonecall hes nearly a sifu in kungfu (dont know which one - he didnt tell me) and I suggested we should trade some moves at regular intervals. Itll be great.

 

[Klondike93]

When I first started in Kenpo my instructor said there were 5 principles for practicing Kenpo.

1. practice the techniques in the air
2. practice the techniques on the body
3. practice the techniques other than originally intended
4. test the techniques
5. test the techniques against multiple attackers

When asked about #4 he said "I'm not telling you go start a fight, but...." He didn't want us to avoid one either.

The point was we had to know what worked, how it worked and why.

I took up the martial arts cause I was getting my butt kicked all the time. I haven't had a good street fight since then. It's been close, but usually could talk out of it. Both of my current instructors have plenty of fight experience. One is from Chicago and the other is a cop.

:asian:

 

[Battousai]

Originally posted by thaiboxer

"
excellent, do they where all that other ninja gear and carry all the weaponry?

Humm, I don't know. I don't have that much experience with them.
The rest of the story goes like this:

I told my instructor what happened, he wanted to attend one of their classes and take the whole class on at once. We had a bail bondsmen/bounty hunter in our class back then, he advised against it based on his knowledge of the law.

So the next day the bail bondsmen and I drive over to the dojo house, the guy had called the ninja clan and asked if he could take a class. So he goes in the house and tells me to wait in the car, I asked him what he thought I should do if he gets throw out of a window... He said at that point I could give him some help

He's in there for about ten minutes, then he comes back and we leave. He said that he talked to the sensei about the incident, the instructor apparently didn't know a thing about it. He told him a little bit about our instructor and our system and the threat that one of his students made to me being grounds for prosecution, and then asked him about zone restrictions. Having a business taught out of a house and all (illegal where we are).

He taped the conversation with a mini tape recorder in his coat pocket so my sensei and I could hear what was said.

And that was it.
Pretty funny to think back on.
I've never seen any of the ninja clan guys again, but they did crank call me for about a year LOL.

 

[hand2handCombat]

many martial arts use abbstract methods. kick and punch in the air. and the ones who say to walk away from a fight and be peaceful probably are the ones who cant do anything

i mean a look at UFC and PRIDE, do those guys learn arts that teach you to walk away or the arts that teach something.......

who in NHB fighting learns hapkido, tae kwon do, kung fu....arts that teach u to walk away??

NHB'ers learn Muay Thai and Brazilian Ju Jitsu and probably some philipino knife arts...why?

becuase they are practical, MT was made on the battlefield, BJJ was made for street fights(from what ive read), and knife arts because its useful.....

!!!!!

 

[The 14th Style]

Originally posted by hand2handCombat

many martial arts use abbstract methods. kick and punch in the air. and the ones who say to walk away from a fight and be peaceful probably are the ones who cant do anything

i mean a look at UFC and PRIDE, do those guys learn arts that teach you to walk away or the arts that teach something.......

who in NHB fighting learns hapkido, tae kwon do, kung fu....arts that teach u to walk away??

NHB'ers learn Muay Thai and Brazilian Ju Jitsu and probably some philipino knife arts...why?

becuase they are practical, MT was made on the battlefield, BJJ was made for street fights(from what ive read), and knife arts because its useful.....

!!!!!

Sorry H2HC, but I must disagree with you. Just because other arts are not as well represented in UFC and Pride, doesn't mean they are without value.
Remember in UFC & Pride, you are in a ring with a referee and a time limit, Etc,etc. Although it has a lot of action, it's still not the same as a street fight imho. You fight differently when fighting for your life or the lives of your loved ones. I have a good friend and Teacher who has studed Wing Chun for over 25 years. He is an amazing Martial Artist! He has fought many times over the years for money, for his life on the street and in the ring. I assure you his art is practical. But I know he will walk away from a fight if he can. I'm sure that there are many systems that produce many great Martial Artist . Not all of them choose to enter the ring. Russ