We need to find a way to help those who can rejoin the world, do so. Isolation from the world isn’t going to do that. We can’t afford to just incarcerate people repeatedly because we give up.
Martial Arts in prison
- Thread starter Rabbitthekitten
- Start date
It might also matter what kind of prison in the US.
I’m wondering about something like classical Aikido training. Leave out the most effective locks and throws, and focus on the blending aspects, and the physical principles of aiki.
I’m not aware of any case where religion was the method - just the excuse.
jobo
Grandmaster
religion was the reason, mY be the e,cause of the leaders, but the actual reason for those doing the killing etal.
Let's take the million a sacrifed by the Aztecs as a prime example, then the Jesuit slave camps in peru, as another,
That’s my point. Teaching religion doesn’t teach how to kill or hurt. Some folks just use it as an excuse to do so. Others usent as a reason to love. Depends how it is taught to them, I expect.
jobo
Grandmaster
It does teach how to kill ritual sacrifice is very sPecific s if on how pEolple should b Killed
And it does teach that killing or other bad treatment isus morally acceptable, if people disagree with your fairy stor. Or that's goD is on your side in what ever conflict so killing is ok
There are various kinds of prisoners, out and out criminals ( violent and non violent) then there's those who are in prison because they have broken laws while mentally ill or are in prison for their or others safety ( here we now have little mental health provision) others have committed crimes like not paying fines/fraud/ shoplifting that type of thing. It seems in the US there are also people put in prison so that the prison owners get paid...….
In the UK a major shake up is needed including getting rid of 'private' prison, any activity like teaching martial arts is pointless until that is down. Religion, in the UK, plays little to no part in public life, in politics or in prisons. It's considered a private thing not to be pushed into anything at all. There are chaplains in prisons if people want them but there would not be any official 'religious' instruction.
In the UK a major shake up is needed including getting rid of 'private' prison, any activity like teaching martial arts is pointless until that is down. Religion, in the UK, plays little to no part in public life, in politics or in prisons. It's considered a private thing not to be pushed into anything at all. There are chaplains in prisons if people want them but there would not be any official 'religious' instruction.
jobo
Grandmaster
That's not true if the very many church schools of various denomination s, where religion is very much pushed down the throat o f impressionable children and given, as fact, brain washing that some never recover from
JR 137
Grandmaster
Regarding rehabilitation, one thing I learned during my masters in counseling is that sociopaths do not respond well to counseling; they actually use it to further their violence. I’d imagine teaching them MA would be the same thing, only obviously worse because you’re teaching them physical skills to improve their violence.
True sociopaths aren’t very common. Yes, there’s a higher concentration of them in prison, but not everyone in prison is a true sociopath.
Outlets like boxing in prison have proven somewhat successful, so I guess MA could have the same effect. It would all depend on the prison, the individuals, the way it’s taught, etc. There are far too many factors to make a blanket statement saying it’ll work or it won’t. It’s just not that simple.
And as to the things prisoners get while in prison, such as TV, warm food, etc.; one of the main reasons why they got these things, especially in the highest security prisons, is to keep the guards safe. See Attica. A lot of prison reform came from that incident specifically.
True sociopaths aren’t very common. Yes, there’s a higher concentration of them in prison, but not everyone in prison is a true sociopath.
Outlets like boxing in prison have proven somewhat successful, so I guess MA could have the same effect. It would all depend on the prison, the individuals, the way it’s taught, etc. There are far too many factors to make a blanket statement saying it’ll work or it won’t. It’s just not that simple.
And as to the things prisoners get while in prison, such as TV, warm food, etc.; one of the main reasons why they got these things, especially in the highest security prisons, is to keep the guards safe. See Attica. A lot of prison reform came from that incident specifically.
This is spot on!
I told a colleague that, even if you rule out any concern whatsoever for the inmate, there is still the public to consider. I explained that, if we EVER plan on releasing them, what condition they are in when we do, is important. Ya can't (in good conscience) make an offender worse then put them into someone's community. Inmate aside, that is a disservice to the public and a betrayal of their trust.
Sure.....but the majority of prisoners aren't yet rehabilitated while they are in and you would be training some of them to be more effective at assaulting fellow inmates and guards (possibly creating a liability issue). And what about the ones that leave prison who haven't rehabilitated...just simply served their time...do you want a violent criminal leaving prison now trained to me more efficient at violence?
Instead you want to teach discipline and rehabilitation....put in a system focused solely on discipline....focus on requiring proper hygiene, organized living area, daily calisthenics, addressing other inmates and prison personnel respectfully, work that they can earn privileges through, and education.
Instead of martial arts, provide vocational skill training throughout their time incarcerated.
I think Martial arts training programs for certain inmates entering half way houses who have shown a willingness to try and change would be better to help lessen Recidivism.
I tend to agree with this. Martial arts are not only about knowing how to hurt people, but WHEN (and when not, and how much). It is also about discipline. It is also about defence. Teaching just how to hurt is quite irresponsible, anywhere.
Having said that, personaIy I would not teach in prison. Away from concentrations of criminals, even away of concentrations of testosterone... Peace.
None of the religious teachings I’ve ever attended (multiple Christian denominations and a few from other faiths) have included instruction in ritual sacrifice.
jobo
Grandmaster
well yes they do, in their holy books, though not human sacrifice, , they do include. " permission. Fir slavery, slaughter if innocents, burning witches, and, rape ,that they tend to forget those bits these days, doesnt alter the fact they were used to justify some of the most barbaric,actions in human history and would again if the church controlled the state,
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You’re talking about writings. I’m talking about teachings. The former may be used for the latter, but they are not the same.
jobo
Grandmaster
the, t teachings are what's in the book which most them read , is they insist the word id God
if the bible says the,stoning. Of adulterers is the thing to do then that the teaching of that religion, you can't pick a d choose which of gods words to follow,
Martial D
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Seems like an easy fix. Teach them a martial art that is useless for fighting. There are plenty to choose from.
Some of them might even make the inmates LESS dangerous
Also, please keep the religious nonsense outta here or this thread is going to go south fast.
Some of them might even make the inmates LESS dangerous
Also, please keep the religious nonsense outta here or this thread is going to go south fast.
We have a temple here near me where goats are sacrificed, no one is going to tell the Gurkhas they can't do it, so the area is screened off from public view.
On the subject of the so called' Bible' which people seem to think gives all these instructions, I will point out that it has been translated many times, often politically and doesn't actually say what Xtians think it does, plus to use the so called Bible one should also use Jewish Law ( which is modern and up to date not mired in the past) which also doesn't say what people thinks it does. An eye for an eye doesn't mean you can take an eye, a life for a life certainly doesn't mean you take a life, you can't actually be condemned to death under Jewish law, sacrifices were stopped a couple of thousand years ago. Divorce is allowed. There's no original sin, well, no sin really, there's no such thing as Satan etc etc. there's a lot people get so very wrong when they start quoting the 'Bible'. people can believe what they want but when you start messing stuff up from other people's beliefs and saying it's true etc then there's a problem.
D
Deleted member 39746
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How about, Tai chi? Or just gutting the combat element out of them if you are woried it will worsen the situation (not like they dont shiv each other all ready and wont care if they are "trained" to beat somone up) I cant imagine it will worsen the situation as you will just pull people who have commited asualt off all their actiities anyway as its a reward to have access to them and punishment to remove access to them. (as stated above, they woul have done that irrelient of if they had somone come in and teach them animal kung fu)
But here is a thing, what if a prisoneer teaches it to others? There would be no regulation then, so you could maybe in essence have that priosoneer job to teach a structured version of it to others.
edit: Plus they regulate what acitivties you can do based on your prision rating and what crimes you have done etc and if you have behaviour while in prision. So chances being the people who are chronically violent in prisions wont be allowed access to it.
Edit2: I tl;dr this thread, excuse repeated points.
But here is a thing, what if a prisoneer teaches it to others? There would be no regulation then, so you could maybe in essence have that priosoneer job to teach a structured version of it to others.
edit: Plus they regulate what acitivties you can do based on your prision rating and what crimes you have done etc and if you have behaviour while in prision. So chances being the people who are chronically violent in prisions wont be allowed access to it.
Edit2: I tl;dr this thread, excuse repeated points.
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