Martial art A vs. Martial Art B... here we go again...and again... and again...

[Xue Sheng]

Likely this post won't end well...but here goes

Why do we care, beyond the academic or training opportunity about another style of martial arts

I have been reading these types of posts (Ma A vs. Ma B) on MT for awhile now and the majority seem to come down to one thing in my opinion… fear. There have been a few that where actually legitimate comparisons looking for information but most come out of fear.

Are we as martial artists so threatened by another art that we have to look for ways that range from the silly to the insulting to run another art down to make ourselves feel superior.

It is a very old argument by the way, I am sure it went on way back when Shuaijiao was new or possibly even as far back as Pankration but it did go on in China a while back between Internal Martial Arts and External Martial arts (the categories themselves are a bit off the mark)

A hundred years ago or so in China the argument started that Internal Martial Arts was by far superior to External Martial Arts. Much of this argument came from the fact that some, (louder and/or more literate) IMA people of lesser skill decided to say that IMA was superior to EMA to not get beat up. You see if IMA was superior in skill and philosophy to EMA then they did not want to have to fight to prove it because they did not want to hurt the poor EMA guy and philosophically speaking they were above such baser things… unlike the lowly EMA guy. Thereby they avoided getting their butts kicked, saved face, looked superior and looked tough all at the same time.

But the topic of choice these days appears to be “MMA vs. Anything” or the reverse “Anything vs. MMA”.

As I said, in my opinion, this all has its root in fear. Are we as martial artists, whether we train TMA, MMA or RSBD so afraid of an acronym, do we feel so threatened by another art that we need to come up with ways to make ourselves feel superior belittling another art.

Please can we stop doing these comparisons that range from the silly to the insulting in order to make ourselves look and feel superior to others because in reality we feel threatened by that other style. Learn about the other style from reputable sources and you will feel less threatened by it…or…maybe…just maybe… you will get better ideas as to how to train or get the drive to train harder in your chosen style.

Now can we all just shut up and train... believe me, train properly and you will feel less threatened

 

[terryl965]

Xue I do not believe it is fear but rather what I call be westrnized to the max. We must always be better and if not we will argue and change thing until we are. Americans for the most part walk around with a chip on thier shoulders becaus ethey have no other way to express themself because our society dictates that if we show weakness than we are, if we so remorse than they are stronger. Hell look we change football to American football because we could not keep up. Look in Basketball we are seeing more in more over sea's players being drafted.

I believe the old saying goes no art is perfect no human is perfect but we can all train and be perfect for that one moment if need be. So in the nd just keep working on being perfect for that single moment when you may need to be.

 

[MJS]

Likely this post won't end well...but here goes

Why do we care, beyond the academic or training opportunity about another style of martial arts

I have been reading these types of posts (Ma A vs. Ma B) on MT for awhile now and the majority seem to come down to one thing in my opinion… fear. There have been a few that where actually legitimate comparisons looking for information but most come out of fear.

Are we as martial artists so threatened by another art that we have to look for ways that range from the silly to the insulting to run another art down to make ourselves feel superior.

It is a very old argument by the way, I am sure it went on way back when Shuaijiao was new or possibly even as far back as Pankration but it did go on in China a while back between Internal Martial Arts and External Martial arts (the categories themselves are a bit off the mark)

A hundred years ago or so in China the argument started that Internal Martial Arts was by far superior to External Martial Arts. Much of this argument came from the fact that some, (louder and/or more literate) IMA people of lesser skill decided to say that IMA was superior to EMA to not get beat up. You see if IMA was superior in skill and philosophy to EMA then they did not want to have to fight to prove it because they did not want to hurt the poor EMA guy and philosophically speaking they were above such baser things… unlike the lowly EMA guy. Thereby they avoided getting their butts kicked, saved face, looked superior and looked tough all at the same time.

But the topic of choice these days appears to be “MMA vs. Anything” or the reverse “Anything vs. MMA”.

As I said, in my opinion, this all has its root in fear. Are we as martial artists, whether we train TMA, MMA or RSBD so afraid of an acronym, do we feel so threatened by another art that we need to come up with ways to make ourselves feel superior belittling another art.

Please can we stop doing these comparisons that range from the silly to the insulting in order to make ourselves look and feel superior to others because in reality we feel threatened by that other style. Learn about the other style from reputable sources and you will feel less threatened by it…or…maybe…just maybe… you will get better ideas as to how to train or get the drive to train harder in your chosen style.

Now can we all just shut up and train... believe me, train properly and you will feel less threatened

Well, you're probably right, this won't end well, but who knows...stranger things have happened. LOL. Ok, here goes.....

When I started training, I really wasn't too concerned with the "A vs B" debates, partly because I as a newbie. Fast forward to 1993, and I, much like everyone else in the MA world, saw this grappling stuff, and I was impressed. Then I started researching more into my art, other arts, etc. I made some changes to my own trainng, took on a few more arts.

People will find pleasure in bashing other arts because they dont match up to what they do. "Your art doesnt have xyz, but mine does, so you suck!" is what we hear.

Personally, I'm not, nor will I ever be or want to be, for that matter, the Kenpo, Arnis or BJJ Police. I really dont care how anyone else trains. All I do is offer some suggestions. Take 'em or leave 'em, either way its not gonna effect me 1 bit. If someone wants to crack on my arts, go ahead. If I can show someone something or make them understand something better, great. If not, thats fine too. Like I said, sometimes, no matter what ya say to someone, they'll be so set in their ways, they'll never change.

Anyways...enough ranting for now. How does that saying go again...."Shut Up And Train!!!"

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't have any fear, of any thing or anybody. I'm number two in Xue-fu. What would I have to fear? (except Number One in Xue-fu [bowing and scraping])

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't have any fear, of any thing or anybody. I'm number two in Xue-fu. What would I have to fear? (except Number One in Xue-fu [bowing and scraping])

As it should be :mst: :uhyeah:

 

[CoryKS]

Why do we care, beyond the academic or training opportunity about another style of martial arts

Because my art is teh d34dly and we won't have balance in the internets unless you all acknowledge it.

 

[Steve]

Interesting post. I'd say it's less about fear and, in spite of what many would like to believe about Americans, I don't think it's about arrogance, either.

I alluded to this in the other thread, but I believe that it's really simply about insecurity and a genuine belief that what we happen to be doing at the moment is the awesomest thing ever. It's enthusiasm, expressed immaturely, and I can't really fault people for that.

Add a touch of egocentrism, in that we all tend to believe that what we're experiencing is unique and interesting (because of course, no one has ever gone through what we're going through before.)

Honestly, I don't think it's all that insidious and can't bring myself to get to upset with people who try to build up their own activities at the expense of others. It's maybe not the best way to go about things, but it's perfectly understandable.

 

[WC_lun]

Its just human nature. Everyone wants to believe that what they do is they best and by extension they are better than everyone else.

 

[Xue Sheng]

As far as MA is concerned I go back ways, not as far as some on MT, but back to just before Enter the Dragon came out and there has always been a “my style is better that your style kind of thing going on. But it just was not as silly or as vicious or as unfounded as some of these posts I see here (and elsewhere) from time to time.

Heck back in my Jujutsu days I had a friend that was Goju and we got into the "your arts sucks" stuff but it was all cool. We even occasionally spared and it was a blast. Of course the trash talk continued but that was part of the fun. Fast forward many (many) years and I was in a multiple style sparing group and that was freakin awesome. I only wish there were MMA people around then to join. But we still got into the “my style is better than your style stuff”. But there is a world of difference between standing there giving each other a hard time “face to face” than some of the stuff I read on the web. In the case of the group, no one got angry, we all spared and we all had a great time.

However some of what I read here from time to time is not trash talk it is elitism or idiocy, or just plain downright bigotry against another style which is generally based in lack of knowledge or insecurity (thanks stevebjj). And it is that stuff I am talking about that is coming out of fear or just a general lack of knowledge coupled with a lack of desire to learn which again could be fear.

Here is an old post of mine that basically covers what it was like way back with dinosaurs walked the earth… we rode mammoths to class back then you know And it gives some of what I am talking about as it applies to these my style vs your style things as it applies to the Wild and Whacky world of the Web... or it could be I'm just old... who knows

But to take my own advice, if all goes well, and I don’t injure myself again , I am soon to shut up and train big time… so…

Interesting post. I'd say it's less about fear and, in spite of what many would like to believe about Americans, I don't think it's about arrogance, either.

I alluded to this in the other thread, but I believe that it's really simply about insecurity and a genuine belief that what we happen to be doing at the moment is the awesomest thing ever. It's enthusiasm, expressed immaturely, and I can't really fault people for that.

Add a touch of egocentrism, in that we all tend to believe that what we're experiencing is unique and interesting (because of course, no one has ever gone through what we're going through before.)

Honestly, I don't think it's all that insidious and can't bring myself to get to upset with people who try to build up their own activities at the expense of others. It's maybe not the best way to go about things, but it's perfectly understandable.

Agreed

And for the record, I don’t think it is insidious or evil or for that matter all that much of a concern. I am just getting tired of it… again

 

[Flying Crane]

A whole lot of people on the internet say a whole lot of stupid things, and I'm here to set them straight.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Our styles differ! We must fight!

Besides, everyone knows that Sinanju is best. They're all just pale imitations.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Our styles differ! We must fight!

Besides, everyone knows that Sinanju is best. They're all just pale imitations.

Enough talk... let’s fight

I told you, you were all warned… anytime, anyplace anywhere if I am given the chance I WILL use a Kung fu panda reference
http://kungfupandafans.webs.com/kfp02.jpg

 

[Hand Sword]

An easy solution is to just not reply to those threads and let the thread die. If it's a personal issue, pm's are a good solution. That way, no clogs in the system and threads "worthy" of discussion will get their due attention.

:asian:

 

[Xue Sheng]

An easy solution is to just not reply to those threads and let the thread die. If it's a personal issue, pm's are a good solution. That way, no clogs in the system and threads "worthy" of discussion will get their due attention.

:asian:

But then we get into who judges a thread "Worthy"

If we go by my standard of what is worthy for MT there would be no study what-so-ever. But then a lot of people on MT likely think me not worthy to post at all so who decides.

There can be a discussion that comes out of any of these posts that is of interest, your current post on the topic seems to be going a good route at the moment, but I take full credit for that based on my awesomeness and attractiveness


It is just that in some cases, and happily not as many as there use to be, they get plain sill and downright insulting and I will admit I thought your post on the topic had great potential for going that way. And I will admit your initial post had something to do with this one but I am not advocating shutting it down, Locking it, or adding people to ignore lists.

At this point it could end up a good discussion.

But then, like I said, it could be that I am just too old.

 

[clfsean]

As it should be :mst: :uhyeah:

Mun lao yan...hehehehe

 

[Bill Mattocks]

An easy solution is to just not reply to those threads and let the thread die. If it's a personal issue, pm's are a good solution. That way, no clogs in the system and threads "worthy" of discussion will get their due attention.

:asian:

Way too sensible to work. I take offense at your reasonableness.

 

[Flying Crane]

Way too sensible to work. I take offense at your reasonableness.

I'm not surprised. But that's what I'd expect from someone who trains a crappy style...

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm not surprised. But that's what I'd expect from someone who trains a crappy style...

True, but then, by comparison no style is worthy compared to Xuefu :mst:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

True, but then, by comparison no style is worthy compared to Xuefu :mst:

Ha! Xeufu-ists couldn't kick their way out of a paper bag! A pink one!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Our styles differ! We must fight!

Besides, everyone knows that Sinanju is best. They're all just pale imitations.

Thats what I'm talking about! You are all a Bunch of Pajama Dancers! LOL
Sean