Mantis vs ninjutsu

[Blooming Lotus]

I was just reading an article on "the complete package" thread regarding mantis gongfu , its aspects and development and I couldn't help but want to learn more about it and likewise couldn't help but notice how it might clash with ninustu training. Does anyone here have experience in both ??? I'm thinking grappling philosophy clashes might become an issue here??? If you can help me out or are up for the discussion, pls do read the article and let us know your thoughts.
Actually, if someone has a clip of mantis vs ninjutsu that would be even better.


Cheers

Blooming Lotus

 

[clfsean]

If you're going to study ninjutsu from any of the 3 kans... don't try to do anything else. Make a decision & stick with it. Mantis and/or Takamatsuden arts require a commitment to understand them.

 

[CMack11]

I was just reading an article on "the complete package" thread regarding mantis gongfu

Blooming lotus, were you reading the Inside KF article? Just curious, my sifu wrote that article.

 

[7starmantis]

Yes CMack11, thats the one, I posted it here so everyone could read it.

Blooming Lotus, I dont know enough about nijitsu really. What are the groundfighting concepts that you think could clash with mantis? If you can outline some of the ninjitsu philosophies, I would love to discuss the differences between it and mantis.

I also will agree with clfsean that it takes some commitment and studing two systems like that might be quite hard.

7sm

 

[CMack11]

Thanks 7*! I missed the magazine and haven't had a chance to read the whole thing. Great article.

By the way, we had our 'graduation' recently. I get to move up a belt rank, and a little earlier than scheduled. Now I'm the super-deadly 'white with one stripe' belt

I'm still having a blast with it, too! I'm really glad I picked the art and instructor that I did.

 

[clfsean]

7* .... the underlying philosophy of the Takamatsu-den arts is the word "nin"... perserverance & winning.

When I was in the Bujinkan back in the early 90's, it was about winning & going home. Winning the fight, winning at life, etc....

There's more to it than that, but it shouldn't be attempted with something else IMHO. The Takamatsu-den arts are a study unto themselves, just like Mantis. Do one, do the other, but not at the same time.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Blooming lotus, were you reading the Inside KF article? Just curious, my sifu wrote that article.

To be honest I've never read an issue in lieu of kungfu qigong / taiji magazine
and blitz but full credit and regards to your shifu. Great piece... and from here on I 'll keep an eye out for the mag.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Yes CMack11, thats the one, I posted it here so everyone could read it.

Blooming Lotus, I dont know enough about nijitsu really. What are the groundfighting concepts that you think could clash with mantis? If you can outline some of the ninjitsu philosophies, I would love to discuss the differences between it and mantis.

I also will agree with clfsean that it takes some commitment and studing two systems like that might be quite hard.

7sm[/QUOTE

Lacking commitment I'm not, I think you perhaps just misunderstand. My intention is to go to the ring with as much variety of alt style tech as I can afford. I often study more than one art at any given time and lessens commitment to each no more or less than if I only stidied a single branch. I'm a woman...we multi- task

Usually though, i study arts with diffrent focusses like grappling plays hand strikes plays kicking / plays elements / plays cavity strike/ plays balance / speed and accuracy vs strength techs / plays internal vs external / plays brindging method / breathing variations and so forth.......... Which is likely why 16 yrs in and I still don't have black belts. I will say though that I have been testing my skills throughtout china and nz and at home against diffrent lvls and styles and I'm good with the way I'm putiing it together. Now I want to up my grappling and kicking strength. I feel Muay thai will cover me on the kicks and ninjutsu has some awesome skill for grappling. Between conversations with you, and several other nicely ranked mantis practioners though, I'm seeing that matis would be another great art my bpody would maximse on.

The clashes I'm talking about are with regard to ninjutsu balance and more small joint focus / distance/ core useage / direction ( ninjtsu being more linear ) of limb control / loving and wanting mantis elbow not present in ninjutsu ( ) ....... what else..........I'm sure there'sa more , but for now, I think they're te main issues and you just can't give full fosuc to differtent arts at the same with such different balance and directive. I think I may have to choose.........


Who thinks which would serve me better as a ring component??? ( Btw : for examples of how these styles look when applieed to ring pls see recent Kostya Tszyu fight and the maing he chopped / selected aspects of / merged and applied himself ). One tech they don't have is how many points per land???

May never get there, but I'm taking that belt. .....now If I can just figure out how to do that exactly.............
:uhyeah:


BL


Yes I have Ego but I worked hard for it.......... just quietly

 

[clfsean]

Ninjutsu is ....

not linear...

not circular...

a path that's best tread alone & focused... not scattered about.

 

[Bester]

Meditate on that students as you rejoin the mind to the body.

 

[7starmantis]

Lacking commitment I'm not, I think you perhaps just misunderstand. My intention is to go to the ring with as much variety of alt style tech as I can afford. I often study more than one art at any given time and lessens commitment to each no more or less than if I only stidied a single branch. I'm a woman...we multi- task

Whoa, I think you are taking things out of context. I never said you lacked commitment, nor did I hint towards it. In fact that never even crossed my mind. Be careful assuming you allready understand what saomeone is saying, sometimes you can miss out on really good things by doing that. I understand your idea, I just simply dont agree with it. I'm of the school of thought that having several different and differing styles is more of a hindrence than a help. Just my opinion, there are many who disagree. See I see that many of those differing focuses you are looking at different arts for, are contained in several arts all in one. There are simply two schools of thought on this issue.

Between conversations with you, and several other nicely ranked mantis practioners though, I'm seeing that matis would be another great art my bpody would maximse on.

I will say this and take it for what you will, mantis techniques are quite different from alot of other techniques. trying to use other principles and tehcniques will usually not work with mantis techniques. They are very different. Taking one techniques isn't really mantis, its the principles and concepts behind how you fight that makes it mantis. Plus, most mantis schools I know of will start you off very basic, in my school you dont even learn a 7* form for almost a year and a half.

Who thinks which would serve me better as a ring component??? ( Btw : for examples of how these styles look when applieed to ring pls see recent Kostya Tszyu fight and the maing he chopped / selected aspects of / merged and applied himself ). One tech they don't have is how many points per land???

If your looking for ring application, I wouldn't recomend mantis at all. The yielding and softness mantis utilizes in its higher skill levels aren't lent well to ring apps.

7sm

 

[Darksoul]

If your looking for ring application, I wouldn't recomend mantis at all. The yielding and softness mantis utilizes in its higher skill levels aren't lent well to ring apps.

7sm[/QUOTE]
-Yeah, Mantis techniques are meant to take care of business;-)


A---)

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Hmmmmmm... .. You better believe that's exactly what I've been doing and will do again when I hit /Jenna Costillo for her sanshou title ( if she even still has it by then).


7* .I don't even know where to start with your comment. I guess I'm a fairly reasonablely fast learner and if concepts are in way related to psychology , It is a major of mine and I think playing with a style for a bit will give me a fair enough idea of that styles ebb and flow and what I need to do against it. THAT is the point. But beyond that, I have nearly committed to making mantis a focal art for some years to come.

I disagree that understanding your art won't aide me in the ring ( even when we're fighting with an mma or whathaveyou), because if you can't know your enemy, you may aswell not bother. Train to the highest common deminator , which for me is the art I don't understand through practice nor principal. Mantis is one..and at this stage, just a lil more appealing . Trying to use other techs from other styles on mantis principals ( or any other art for that matter) will generally leave you feeling uncordinated and mess with your balance and timing etc, but when you interchange the skills..different game again

Back to the topic though, when you do this with something like grappling in a really short time frame where it requires more thinking as opposed to autonomus reaction, I think it's just a little drastic to do most effectively ( unless they're both justus like an aikdo / ninjtsu combo) ...especially when at the same time you're interchanging feet / hands / balance and direction between styles ..........hence need to choose. And please don't take this as saying I believe I have mastery in any of them, I simply have a few techs that work well for my body type and muscle fibre strengths on an interchange. Thx for the input anyway

Btw : Your path is your own and though you often have company and for various durations..... you are on your own and so are the rest of us Focus pends the size of your picture .

 

[7starmantis]

 

[Blooming Lotus]

lol

 

[tshadowchaser]

Ok I read this

My intention is to go to the ring with as much variety of alt style tech as I can afford

and this

You better believe that's exactly what I've been doing and will do again when I hit /Jenna Costillo for her sanshou title ( if she even still has it by then).

So I have to ask whatis your ring experence and what organisations have you fought in and where can we check to see if you are rated anywhere

 

[Blooming Lotus]

I'm not, you can't and considering I'm training to her profile , I think I'll just keep the rest to myself.



cheers

BL

 

[tshadowchaser]

With respects to all that back their claims by providing proof I say that the above statement means To me that the person has nothing with which to back herself up and is there for just an internet warrior.

When someone on this forum says they are training for a title shot or getting ready for a competition they are very often asked for references and MOST are able to provide such records and references. Those that can or will not are not believed much there after.

Now because I have diverse from the original post I will say this: From what I have seen of Mantis stylists in my area they are fast, fluid and have a wide range of techniques that can be used with or against other styles. But to be proficient one must take the time to study and learn. A quickie 6 months in any systems only would give someone the very basic of knowledge in stances and foot and hand movement. Grappling may be a little different because moves and counter moves are stressed in a different area, but in 6 months or less one would still learn little.

It takes time to learn any system . Those who brush a system for short periods of time can not get the full input and knowledge and only fool themselves . Ninjutsu, mantis, or whatever can all compliment each other and can all be used against each other. It really depends on the individual and their adversary.

 

[7starmantis]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful and the conversation on topic.

-7starmantis
-Adam C
-MT Moderator-

 

[sifu Adams]

I no nothing about Ninjutsu but it seems to be a art full of weapons and steath moves. However I practise southern Matis under Master Jin Foon Mark. I don't think you will find to many MA that practise this combonation. your best bet would be to reserch both and determan. maybe you can mix them and creat your " hidden Mantis system". Anyway the sothern mantis is a veary complex art it is not flashy and you are not going to win kata's or form divitions. You will learn to fight and fight at vary close range. I have seen Mantis artist and they are some of the best fighters I have ever came across. they strike pressure points with presiest mesuring tech. they can strike from one inch and knock you back 3-5 feet. My experance has been once they move in -- your done. I would recommend that you look up Sothern Mantis by Jin Foon Mark on a serch engin and read some history on both styles befor you decide. You may be able to mix the style. that how a new style is made.