Man vs. Beast

[Cobra]

Martial Arts maybe effective against people who want to fight you, but what about crazy beasts who want to kill you in the wild. Sure you can have a gun but what happens if you loose it, and you are in the middle of a forest or jungle.

It is imposable for a human to beat up lions, tiger, and bears (oh my) with their bare body because they are too big and strong, but what about large wolves, cougars, or leapords. Sure thay got big teeth or claws, but an average man is several times more stronger than any of them. Not to mention more flexible. As long as your are quick enough to avoid the mouth or claws and get around and wrestle the beast to the ground and do a armbar or something and break the ****ers leg (which will break easier than a human) crippling the beast and then kick in the head really hard a few times and it should do the trick. Isn't the whole point of martial arts to fight with no weapons? Or you can punch or kick or squeeze the throat causing instant death to any beast. I think that it can be done.

I have a huge 180 pound Great Dane and I'm am so used to wrestling with him when even he is at full strenght (and I mean biting at full force) that i have no fear of dogs of any size cause I am so used to getting bit. This is where I got the idea humans don't need weapons to beat beasts around the same weight (or little bigger) than us if you train at it.

What do you guys think. Also, is there any martial arts (like kung fu which is movements from animals) that deals solley with fighting animals like big wolvesand dogs or big cats (with the exeption of lions and tigers of coarse).

 

[7starmantis]

I think your post is riddled with disinformation and incorrect assumptions.

an average man is several times more stronger than any of them. Not to mention more flexible.

do a armbar or something and break the ****ers leg (which will break easier than a human) crippling the beast and then kick in the head really hard a few times and it should do the trick.

Why do you believe man is stronger and more flexible than wild animals? Why do you believe wild animals bones will break easier than humans?

I think it is possible to defend yourself against an animal, ie kung fu was developed for that specific reason, but you must know your limitations and you better get some better sources.

7sm

 

[Cruentus]

Against a lot of animals, your pretty well screwed.

A large cat like a lion weighs between 450 and 550lbs.

A Bear weighs a lot more.

Weight isn't even the half of it. A chimpanzee (who weighs less then the average human) is estimated to be 10 times stronger then the average human.

Even smaller animals like Dogs, wolves, or cougers all have teeth and claws.

Sorry to break it to you, but if your Great Dane saw you as food, then you'd be missing some serious skin. I don't think your dog has bitten you as hard as he is able too.

 

[Cobra]

I think your post is riddled with disinformation and incorrect assumptions.

Why do you believe man is stronger and more flexible than wild animals? Why do you believe wild animals bones will break easier than humans?

I think it is possible to defend yourself against an animal, ie kung fu was developed for that specific reason, but you must know your limitations and you better get some better sources.

7sm

It is true actually deponding on the animal. Primates (including humans) are several times stronger than animals around the same weight. And if you notice, for eample dogs arms are more brittle and can't flex as much (like do the splits).

Also, did you guys know that a boxer punch is more powerful than an average tiger or lion bite? Tiger or lions can have 1,000 pounds bite pressure but a boxer's punch can be 1,500-2,500 pounds of pressure. I'm not saying and unarmed human can beat a lion or tiger because they are way too big and strong, but against a smaller weaker animal like a wolf or a cougar I think it is possible if we can avoid the sharp teeth and get around and some how get the throat (which will instantly kill any beast) or keep punching it in the back of the head (which would knock any beast out).

 

[Cobra]

Against a lot of animals, your pretty well screwed.

A large cat like a lion weighs between 450 and 550lbs.

A Bear weighs a lot more.

Weight isn't even the half of it. A chimpanzee (who weighs less then the average human) is estimated to be 10 times stronger then the average human.

Even smaller animals like Dogs, wolves, or cougers all have teeth and claws.

Sorry to break it to you, but if your Great Dane saw you as food, then you'd be missing some serious skin. I don't think your dog has bitten you as hard as he is able too.

Not lions, tigers, and bears (oh my). I know they are way too strong. I'm talking about wolves or cougars or dogs. They may have claws and teeth, but the stragety is to avoid the teeth and the claws and get around the beast.

I know chimpanzes are several time stronger than a human, but again i said APES are stronger than other organisms their size. I didn't mean we are the strongest ape (which we are the weakest). And when it comes to a chimpanzee fight. Martial Arts would be effective considering there bodies are 90% similar to ours no matter how strong he is (Having a lot of strenght does gaurantee you a win). And also remeber that is arm strenght. Are legs are equally as strong as a chimp's arms. We can't lift heavy loads with them like chimps with there arms because we can't grasp with our feet and you need grasping power to lift things and it's our legs so it is harder to lift thing lying down.

 

[MA-Caver]

Not lions, tigers, and bears (oh my). I know they are way too strong. I'm talking about wolves or cougars or dogs. They may have claws and teeth, but the stragety is to avoid the teeth and the claws and get around the beast.

I know chimpanzes are several time stronger than a human, but again i said APES are stronger than other organisms their size. I didn't mean we are the strongest ape (which we are the weakest). And when it comes to a chimpanzee fight. Martial Arts would be effective considering there bodies are 90% similar to ours no matter how strong he is (Having a lot of strenght does gaurantee you a win). And also remeber that is arm strenght. Are legs are equally as strong as a chimp's arms. We can't lift heavy loads with them like chimps with there arms because we can't grasp with our feet and you need grasping power to lift things and it's our legs so it is harder to lift thing lying down.

Hmm what color is the sky on your planet?
I think you're in the realm of wild speculation. An average human being (and how about we define specifically the word "average" hmm?) is generally helpless against (large) animals which some have sharp teeth, sharp claws and faster reflexes, a natural instinct for killing...
Wolves and cougars and other like mammals are faster than humans by any margin. Wolves generally travel and hunt in packs so you don't have just one to face but sometimes more than half a dozen, and a lone-wolf is one to definitely avoid because it just-might-be-rabid.
Cougars while generally shy of humans do attack them, but these are probably animals that are either protecting young, or sick, or extremely hungry. They're not small. They're not slow. They have the capability of pulling down a full grown deer and dragging said dead deer across difficult terrian for miles ... often UP-hill.

How often would you find yourself in a situation facing a predatory mammal? I hike in the mountains (of Utah) very frequently and often very far from the nearest city (and never alone) and occasionally have found signs (tracks and scat) of a large predator ... this includes bob-cats and lynxs and wolverines (yes we got 'em). But have rarely...very rarely seen one and they're usually at a distance of 100' or more and very often traveling in the opposite direction.
Non-predatory animals I've seen by the score and it's a thrilling moment to be sure.

Because man using his greatest weapon(s), firearms has the nasty habit of causing near genocide of a particular species of "dangerous" animal. This has gone on for quite a while and the "fear of man" is a common thing among (any wild) animals in the lower 48.

It's something not worth worrying about. Something to be cautious about however if you're in the wild but not a major worry.

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

While in Yosemite, a friend and myself were out on the trails. The sun went down. We were on our way back it was dark. We were being stalked by a large animal. I did see it, once as a large cat, most likely cougar. Before I saw it, I heard it. I think it was curious and keeping an eye on us for being in its' back yard. I grabbed a long stick, and started to drag it behind me, to make a noise. I would occasional pick it up from behind me and twirl it to see my range and also to thump it on the ground. Did it help? The animal was stalking us from further away. I am no small male, and I would not wish to deal with such an animal. I would do my best if required yet it is something I would not go looking for, nor expect to survive unhurt.

Maybe it is the fact that I have played with small cats and seen my forearms bleed from their claws. One swipe just like a knife is all it takes, and then the animal smells blood, and if not before now its instincts take over to hunt.

Respect the animals for what they are. Just my thoughts.

 

[7starmantis]

You had me going for a while there Cobra. I am beggining to realize the jest of this thread and see it for its trollish attributes. I really don't think your serious at all, but if you are, please, please do soem research and get some education, it can take you places.


7sm

 

[Cobra]

Hmm what color is the sky on your planet?
I think you're in the realm of wild speculation. An average human being (and how about we define specifically the word "average" hmm?) is generally helpless against (large) animals which some have sharp teeth, sharp claws and faster reflexes, a natural instinct for killing...
Wolves and cougars and other like mammals are faster than humans by any margin. Wolves generally travel and hunt in packs so you don't have just one to face but sometimes more than half a dozen, and a lone-wolf is one to definitely avoid because it just-might-be-rabid.
Cougars while generally shy of humans do attack them, but these are probably animals that are either protecting young, or sick, or extremely hungry. They're not small. They're not slow. They have the capability of pulling down a full grown deer and dragging said dead deer across difficult terrian for miles ... often UP-hill.

How often would you find yourself in a situation facing a predatory mammal? I hike in the mountains (of Utah) very frequently and often very far from the nearest city (and never alone) and occasionally have found signs (tracks and scat) of a large predator ... this includes bob-cats and lynxs and wolverines (yes we got 'em). But have rarely...very rarely seen one and they're usually at a distance of 100' or more and very often traveling in the opposite direction.
Non-predatory animals I've seen by the score and it's a thrilling moment to be sure.

Because man using his greatest weapon(s), firearms has the nasty habit of causing near genocide of a particular species of "dangerous" animal. This has gone on for quite a while and the "fear of man" is a common thing among (any wild) animals in the lower 48.

It's something not worth worrying about. Something to be cautious about however if you're in the wild but not a major worry.

:asian:

Wait a second! Have you ever heard of a tiger fighter. They live in Malysia, Thaiwon (I know I didn't spell that right), and Korea? They actually fight tigers and beat them. I am not lying! They have very good leg strength which they use to cling to a tiger's back and then they punch them in the back of the neck continualy which will eventually knock them out. It can also be done with bulls and you inarmed humans can kill them (I'm not joking around!).

Check out this image (the bull was out cold);
http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~aoki/Kickboxing/oyama/Oyama_bull.jpg

And about cougars. Do you know their bite pressure at rest? 300 pounds! That is pitiful compared to a human punch (if you know the right way to punch). Cougars can however get thousands of pounds if they are at full speed, but I mean when a cougar not doing a suprise attack.

Trust me on this, humans are not as helpless as you think! Many people have to get out of their heads, just because you don't have sharp claws or teeth, doesn't mean they can't defend themselves unarmed against wild animals.

 

[Cobra]

You had me going for a while there Cobra. I am beggining to realize the jest of this thread and see it for its trollish attributes. I really don't think your serious at all, but if you are, please, please do soem research and get some education, it can take you places.


7sm

I am serious, and have done research on this topic. Look at the image in the post above.

 

[KenpoTex]

It is imposable for a human to beat up lions, tiger, and bears (oh my) with their bare body because they are too big and strong, but what about large wolves, cougars, or leapords. Sure thay got big teeth or claws, but an average man is several times more stronger than any of them.

Dude, When was the last time you saw a full-grown cougar? the things get BIG. Leopards are known for their tremendous strength, in fact, after killing antelopes and such they drag them up into a tree to eat in peace, I'd like to see a person pick up a 150 lb. antelope and THEN climb 15 up into a tree carrying the animal in their jaws.

I'm not saying and unarmed human can beat a lion or tiger because they are way too big and strong, but against a smaller weaker animal like a wolf or a cougar I think it is possible if we can avoid the sharp teeth and get around and some how get the throat (which will instantly kill any beast) or keep punching it in the back of the head (which would knock any beast out).

Trust me on this, humans are not as helpless as you think! Many people have to get out of their heads, just because you don't have sharp claws or teeth, doesn't mean they can't defend themselves unarmed against wild animals.

"Unarmed wild animals?" what do you call the teeth and claws? While you are trying (in vain) to choke them or bop them on the head the weak little "unarmed" animals are going to eviscerate you with their little claws.
When I lived in Colorado I knew a guy who was attacked by a Bobcat. Bobcats are about the size of a medium-sized dog. Anyway, the little devil cut the guy to shreds, he almost died just from the blood-loss from his encounter with the natural razor-blades attached to the things feet. All this from a "cute little kitty-cat."
If you want to prove your hypothesis why don't we engage in a little empiracle research? You go out and find yourself a cougar and do something to tick it off so you can play "crocodile hunter." Then if you, by some sort of divine intervention, manage to survive, come back and tell us about it.

 

[someguy]

Claws and teeth equate to lots of knifes that are part of their bodies.
We were not made to fight animals barehanded or we would be less likely to have as great of technology as we do today. We would not have needed stone tools as much so it would have probably taken long to get anywhere.
Anmimals are made to be stronger than us and faster than us in some cases.
In a 1 on 1 fight I'd rather take a human with a knife that an animal on anyday.

 

[kenpo12]

Cobra,

Please tell me you are posting this just to get people riled up. If not, you really know nothing about animals.

 

[OULobo]

I know everyone has already decided that our friend Cobra is wrong, but lets re-examine the general topic. The human body is an amazing machine. While it's greatest asset is it's inteligence, let's not discount it's physical capabilities and how intelligence can allow more efficient use of those capabilities. Even excluding tools like knives and rocks, humans have a body frame that is indeed relatively strong and highly flexible. There are few other creatures in the world that have the arm range of motion or the leg strength proportional to frame size/body weight that humans exhibit. I wouldn't want to test any of these weapons against the hunters of nature, as Kempotex suggested, but that doesn't mean they aren't valid and effective weapons within nature. Crocodiles, snakes, bulls, sharks, even lions and cougars, are creatures that unarmed men/women have varifiably been able to defend against. I'll not go so far as to say that an unarmed human will be able to successfully attack any of these creatures if they are cornered, and I won't say that an unarmed man will always be able to effectivey defend against one, but I do think he has a damn good chance.

I think I would stay away from the whole choking idea, because many animals have large and strong neck muscles capable of withstanding a significant amount of pressure. I would venture to say, however, that there are few animals that can withstand an well placed and adrenaline laden kick from a human. Let's not discount that humans bite is still very powerful in direct comparison to the rest of the animal kingdom.

PS I know it is nitpicky, but pounds (lbs) is not a unit of pressure, it's a unit of mass or weight. Pressure is generally measured, in english units, in pounds per square inch (psi) or Pascals in metric.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Cobra,

Please tell me you are posting this just to get people riled up. If not, you really know nothing about animals.

Never say never. If you are confronted by a lone wolf and you have already convinced yourself you cant win, then, by golly, you are gonna die. However there are ways to fight animals. A good solid knee stike to the chest of a charging wolf will kill the animal. Good luck with that one, but you could at least try. Getting on an animals back is your best bet with bears and Mountain lions, but a knife would be extreemly usefull at that point. Perhaps a stick could be shoved lenghtwise down there throat from behind. Zebras and wilderbeast kick and break the jaws of lions all the time; however, they have buddies ready to seal off your escape route. Any whoo, the belief you can't win is what will defeat you more than teeth and claws.
Sean

 

[kenpo12]

I know everyone has already decided that our friend Cobra is wrong, but lets re-examine the general topic. The human body is an amazing machine. While it's greatest asset is it's inteligence, let's not discount it's physical capabilities and how intelligence can allow more efficient use of those capabilities. Even excluding tools like knives and rocks, humans have a body frame that is indeed relatively strong and highly flexible. There are few other creatures in the world that have the arm range of motion or the leg strength proportional to frame size/body weight that humans exhibit. I wouldn't want to test any of these weapons against the hunters of nature, as Kempotex suggested, but that doesn't mean they aren't valid and effective weapons within nature. Crocodiles, snakes, bulls, sharks, even lions and cougars, are creatures that unarmed men/women have varifiably been able to defend against. I'll not go so far as to say that an unarmed human will be able to successfully attack any of these creatures if they are cornered, and I won't say that an unarmed man will always be able to effectivey defend against one, but I do think he has a damn good chance.

I think I would stay away from the whole choking idea, because many animals have large and strong neck muscles capable of withstanding a significant amount of pressure. I would venture to say, however, that there are few animals that can withstand an well placed and adrenaline laden kick from a human. Let's not discount that humans bite is still very powerful in direct comparison to the rest of the animal kingdom.

PS I know it is nitpicky, but pounds (lbs) is not a unit of pressure, it's a unit of mass or weight. Pressure is generally measured, in english units, in pounds per square inch (psi) or Pascals in metric.

I see what you are saying but there is one major flaw in your reasoning. The human body is an amazing piece of machinery but in most cases is not longer used to maximum efficiency when our animal counter parts do use their bodies for what they were intended, hunting and killing. Most people nowadays sit behind a desk 40hrs a week and maybe get 4 - 10 hours of exersize a week. You pit that against an animal who spends almost every waking hour doing something physical including, chasing prey, killing, hiding, evading other predators, etc. The weapons that we have are our equalizer, not our muscles.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I see what you are saying but there is one major flaw in your reasoning. The human body is an amazing piece of machinery but in most cases is not longer used to maximum efficiency when our animal counter parts do use their bodies for what they were intended, hunting and killing. Most people nowadays sit behind a desk 40hrs a week and maybe get 4 - 10 hours of exersize a week. You pit that against an animal who spends almost every waking hour doing something physical including, chasing prey, killing, hiding, evading other predators, etc. The weapons that we have are our equalizer, not our muscles.

But we aren't talking about your average couch potato. Let me, at least, throw in Mike Pick, Jet lee, or a Gene Lebel type maybe. Now bring on those mangey muts.
Sean

 

[Rich Parsons]

Wait a second! Have you ever heard of a tiger fighter. They live in Malysia, Thaiwon (I know I didn't spell that right), and Korea? They actually fight tigers and beat them. I am not lying! They have very good leg strength which they use to cling to a tiger's back and then they punch them in the back of the neck continualy which will eventually knock them out. It can also be done with bulls and you inarmed humans can kill them (I'm not joking around!).

Check out this image (the bull was out cold);
http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~aoki/Kickboxing/oyama/Oyama_bull.jpg

And about cougars. Do you know their bite pressure at rest? 300 pounds! That is pitiful compared to a human punch (if you know the right way to punch). Cougars can however get thousands of pounds if they are at full speed, but I mean when a cougar not doing a suprise attack.

Trust me on this, humans are not as helpless as you think! Many people have to get out of their heads, just because you don't have sharp claws or teeth, doesn't mean they can't defend themselves unarmed against wild animals.

I never said Humans are sheep waiting to get killed.

I never said it was impossible.

Just very difficult. Their speed and strength and natural instinct are factors to be concerned about.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I know everyone has already decided that our friend Cobra is wrong, but lets re-examine the general topic. The human body is an amazing machine. While it's greatest asset is it's inteligence, let's not discount it's physical capabilities and how intelligence can allow more efficient use of those capabilities. Even excluding tools like knives and rocks, humans have a body frame that is indeed relatively strong and highly flexible. There are few other creatures in the world that have the arm range of motion or the leg strength proportional to frame size/body weight that humans exhibit. I wouldn't want to test any of these weapons against the hunters of nature, as Kempotex suggested, but that doesn't mean they aren't valid and effective weapons within nature. Crocodiles, snakes, bulls, sharks, even lions and cougars, are creatures that unarmed men/women have varifiably been able to defend against. I'll not go so far as to say that an unarmed human will be able to successfully attack any of these creatures if they are cornered, and I won't say that an unarmed man will always be able to effectivey defend against one, but I do think he has a damn good chance.

I think I would stay away from the whole choking idea, because many animals have large and strong neck muscles capable of withstanding a significant amount of pressure. I would venture to say, however, that there are few animals that can withstand an well placed and adrenaline laden kick from a human. Let's not discount that humans bite is still very powerful in direct comparison to the rest of the animal kingdom.

PS I know it is nitpicky, but pounds (lbs) is not a unit of pressure, it's a unit of mass or weight. Pressure is generally measured, in english units, in pounds per square inch (psi) or Pascals in metric.

Hence the use of a stick to act like a tail, and to swing it around to keep the animal off guard. This was using the brain or intelligence, in my mind. The watching the animal when it got close to let it know I knew it was there.

I just do not think it is as easy as Cobra makes it out to.

I will take this one step at a time.

Give me a knife. He has his punch. I get one knife. Just one, not 8 front knives and 10 rear knives and teeth.

I get one knife.

He gets his body.

To believe he can disarm me and man handle me without getting hurt, is a mistake, that could be deadly.

I was trying to let Cobra think about it.

He has his thoughts. We might differ in opinions, and one of our attitudes might get someone hurt. I present that me being more cautious and respecting the possibility, I have the better chance of not getting hurt. My opinion.

Enjoy
:asian:

 

[Blindside]

I know one fellow who was jumped by a cougar and managed to get out of it with only a few bites punctures in his pectoral. Long story, and not mine, so I'm not going to retell it, but sure, anything is possible, just not probable, or even a marginally good idea.

Regarding cougars, if you have spent anytime outdoors in cougar country you have probably been watched by a cougar, in many cases you will never know. Like any cat they are curious and investigate what these weird two-legged things are doing. We generally don't look like prey, most people who get attacked are joggers who go running by a cougar, it triggers their "hunt down fleeing prey" drive, and they go after the person. If you see a cougar, don't act like prey, and don't turn your back on it. In tiger country (which can be man hunters) some natives wear hats with big eyes on the back, it is supposed to make the tiger think you are facing them.

A large black bear outweighs me by double, is stronger, and has to kill its food with its uh, bear paws for several years. Personally, I think I'd rather get into a fight with Bob Sapp, who is pretty comparable in weight, not that I would fare much better.

And Cobra, if your dog was truly wanting to hurt you, it would have. What you were doing was play and you both knew it, or at least he did, otherwise you would have lots of nifty chunks of flesh missing.

Lamont