Man vs. Beast III

[Kane]

In the spirit of the most popular unpopular subject on Martial Talk *cough* Man vs. Beast *cough*, I have found an interesting thread from a Animal vs Animal forum;

http://p083.ezboard.com/fsharks77551frm2.showMessageRange?topicID=738.topic&start=1&stop=20

In the thread the members discuss of instances where men (who I doubt know any martial arts) have bested a leopard by pinning them on the ground and strangling. All the way to page two it is discussed (don't get distracted by the dog talk).

It really surprised me to see how many cases there are of big cat defensive (defending yourself against a big cat is the hardest too!). I knew there were cases where men have bested leopards "bare-handed" but I didn't know that they were as common as they make it sound. It almost shows that a leopard can only beat a man 6/10 times instead of 8/10 times.

Oh and yes, leopards are much stronger, fiercer, and agile than North America's cougars. Though the leopars in some of the cases were weakened, it doesn't sway from the facts that it isn't impossible to attempt such a defense if the scenario arised.
By the sounds of it, it seems that grapplers (people like me :boing2: ) would have a better chance at defeating a big cat like a leopard or cougar since these defensives against these cats had to do with pinning and strangulation. So probably BJJ, Aikido, and various other grappling MA is the best if you live around any annoying MEDIUM sized predators in the area. However, if you run into a tiger, lion, or grizzly bear (oh my!), then it is best to run far and fast.

So guess I man defending himself against same-sized predator without a weapon is very much possible. Though not a feat to be taken lightly, it can definitely happen.

 

[MA-Caver]

Think about how strong a lepoard must be to be able to drag the body of a 60-75 lb gazelle it just killed up into a tree...using just it's jaws to hold on to the carcass while all four limbs are used to leap up to the lowest branches and then climb the rest of the way to a branch high enough and strong enough to support the weight of both animals... then hang on to the carcass while eating on it... (think: weight distribution and balancing).
Now also think about the speed of the animal and the strength it has (size to weight ratio) and it's fangs, teeth, powerful jaws and razor sharp claws that are sharpened every time it climbs up into a tree... with or without a carcass.
Now answer the question if you'd be able to out grappel an animal like that. Controlling your fear, pain and the animal all at the same time.

 

[tim po]

Oh and yes, leopards are much stronger, fiercer, and agile than North America's cougars.

leopard=50-65lbs mountain lion= 90-150lbs.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Men have defeated bears by hand to save their dogs, my guess is that's been happening forever.

All cats have their weaknesses. Every cat owner knows them.

 

[Blindside]

leopard=50-65lbs mountain lion= 90-150lbs.

You got the female leopard size compared to male mountain lion size, male leopards are 80-165, so pretty comparable.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Men have defeated bears by hand to save their dogs, my guess is that's been happening forever.

Sure. Lots of weird things have happened. What do you think mankinds unarmed win/loss record vs bears is?

 

[Blindside]

I met a guy in my BJJ class (in 1997) who had been jumped by what was probably a juvenile male cougar. He was a college wrestler and he basically reverted to his training and rolled it, wound up mounting it and then was basically "now what?" He said he tried choking it but it would shake it's head and he wasn't able to kill it that way, he also got bit on the pec while trying this. Eventually he said he basically rolled off of it and threw it away from him. he said the cougar walked about 20 feet away from him, sat down and just watched him, the cat was probably thinking "that didn't go as planned."

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

leopard=50-65lbs mountain lion= 90-150lbs.

Nope.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I met a guy in my BJJ class (in 1997) who had been jumped by what was probably a juvenile male cougar. He was a college wrestler and he basically reverted to his training and rolled it, wound up mounting it and then was basically "now what?" He said he tried choking it but it would shake it's head and he wasn't able to kill it that way, he also got bit on the pec while trying this. Eventually he said he basically rolled off of it and threw it away from him. he said the cougar walked about 20 feet away from him, sat down and just watched him, the cat was probably thinking "that didn't go as planned."

Horsepucky.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In the spirit of the most popular unpopular subject on Martial Talk *cough* Man vs. Beast *cough*, I have found an interesting thread from a Animal vs Animal forum;

http://p083.ezboard.com/fsharks77551frm2.showMessageRange?topicID=738.topic&start=1&stop=20

In the thread the members discuss of instances where men (who I doubt know any martial arts) have bested a leopard by pinning them on the ground and strangling. All the way to page two it is discussed (don't get distracted by the dog talk).

It really surprised me to see how many cases there are of big cat defensive (defending yourself against a big cat is the hardest too!). I knew there were cases where men have bested leopards "bare-handed" but I didn't know that they were as common as they make it sound. It almost shows that a leopard can only beat a man 6/10 times instead of 8/10 times.

Oh and yes, leopards are much stronger, fiercer, and agile than North America's cougars. Though the leopars in some of the cases were weakened, it doesn't sway from the facts that it isn't impossible to attempt such a defense if the scenario arised.
By the sounds of it, it seems that grapplers (people like me :boing2: ) would have a better chance at defeating a big cat like a leopard or cougar since these defensives against these cats had to do with pinning and strangulation. So probably BJJ, Aikido, and various other grappling MA is the best if you live around any annoying MEDIUM sized predators in the area. However, if you run into a tiger, lion, or grizzly bear (oh my!), then it is best to run far and fast.

So guess I man defending himself against same-sized predator without a weapon is very much possible. Though not a feat to be taken lightly, it can definitely happen.

What a load of nonsense. First, you would never see it coming. Second, there are many types of leopard in several continents that vary in Size from 35lbs to close to 200 lbs in certain African areas. Third, alone and unarmed you have almost zero chance of defeating an African leopard. You stand a far better chance with an mma heavyweight than with a leopard by using BJJ. There are three other lands in disneyland besides fantasyland, try them out.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sure. Lots of weird things have happened. What do you think mankinds unarmed win/loss record vs bears is?

This thread is farther out than the lightsaber talk, which was at least somewhat entertaining.

 

[Blindside]

Horsepucky.

I saw the scars from the bite on the chest. Here is a more recent account of it, his name is Phil Anderson. Seattle man recounts harrowing encounter with a cougar

 

[Oily Dragon]

Sure. Lots of weird things have happened. What do you think mankinds unarmed win/loss record vs bears is?

I suppose if we asked the Stranger, we know what he'd say.

Man today is weak compared to his ancestors, so I don't disagree.

But that was no one ordinary man. That was a man in love with his dog. That poor bear got the John Wick treatment.

 

[tim po]

You got the female leopard size compared to male mountain lion size, male leopards are 80-165, so pretty comparable.

thats what i get for using googlejutsu.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Men have defeated bears by hand to save their dogs, my guess is that's been happening forever.

All cats have their weaknesses. Every cat owner knows them.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sure. Lots of weird things have happened. What do you think mankinds unarmed win/loss record vs bears is?

thats what i get for using googlejutsu.

I watched a 35 year old construction worker get “hooked“ in the calf by a 60lbs female cougar named blaze. He got too close to the feed hole of the enclosure and she reached out and got two hooks in his calf. He tried to grab her foot and disengage, at this point she got one hook through the muscle in the web of his right hand. he could not pull free. It took three of us to free him from her grasp, during which time she bit his hand and damaged 3 fingers very badly, nearly chewing the middle one off. This was a 60 lbs cougar. A couple of the large male African leopards we had on the compound were FAR more dangerous and capable. My point here is that people who haven’t experienced what a big cat can do when “turned on” have no idea just how powerful they really are. We also had a timid and extremely large Amur tiger named Reesha. 11 ft. Long, close to 700lbs.( a tad bit overweight) who I witnessed shatter a large bowling ball whe he gently swatted it at the steel pole that supported his enclosure roof. He was as frightened by his display as I was, but I will never forget it. When people talk about wrestling or punching one of these creatures into submission, well I guess I just can’t imagine how that could be reality after seeing a couple people get into these situations in person.

 

[tim po]

I watched a 35 year old construction worker get “hooked“ in the calf by a 60lbs female cougar named blaze. He got too close to the feed hole of the enclosure and she reached out and got two hooks in his calf. He tried to grab her foot and disengage, at this point she got one hook through the muscle in the web of his right hand. he could not pull free. It took three of us to free him from her grasp, during which time she bit his hand and damaged 3 fingers very badly, nearly chewing the middle one off. This was a 60 lbs cougar. A couple of the large male African leopards we had on the compound were FAR more dangerous and capable. My point here is that people who haven’t experienced what a big cat can do when “turned on” have no idea just how powerful they really are. We also had a timid and extremely large Amur tiger named Reesha. 11 ft. Long, close to 700lbs.( a tad bit overweight) who I witnessed shatter a large bowling ball whe he gently swatted it at the steel pole that supported his enclosure roof. He was as frightened by his display as I was, but I will never forget it. When people talk about wrestling or punching one of these creatures into submission, well I guess I just can’t imagine how that could be reality after seeing a couple people get into these situations in person.

my cat weighs 12 lbs. i know how much damage he can do with his jaws and claws! he was a bit of a terror, more feral than domestic, and i only was able to bond with him by being willing to 'play' with him. while i would never do that with a dog, it worked with him. anyway when he got ahold of me with his claws, the teeth came immediately after, but i seldom got hurt aside from minor scratches because when he hit i did not retract my arm but went completely limp. he would let go, maybe remembering that thats the hand that feeds him-and would retract his claws and replace the bite with licking the hand....but thats a 12lb house cat, not a tiger or puma. i have no doubt what even a 30lb bobcat is capable of!

but in general the psychology of cats big or small is similar, and they are very different than dogs and wolves in this way. like the story of the wrestler above who fought off a cougar attack, and the cat just layed there and watched him, i get that. cats are ponderous creatures. behave in a way they do not expect and they may stop and think about it some more. but i do think that if any big cat is sincerely set upon killing you, our chances of changing their mind(empty handed) is rather poor.

but a 700lb tiger...oof. it's really no wonder that homo sapiens remained an insignificantly populated species prior to the mass extinction event at the end of the last ice age...

 

[Oily Dragon]

The big difference between bears and cats is lean muscle mass. All of these big cats are practically all muscle, hence the strength compared to bears, which are slower and tend to lug around a lot more fat for their weight, up to 30% fat when they go to hibernate. Size also makes a big difference, big cats like Siberian Tigers are known to occasionally eat Polar Bears.

Bear fat is delicious. Never eaten tiger or leopard, just trained the styles.

In Chinese kung fu the leopard style is singled out for building strength (lek) and manpower, where the tiger style is building bone (gum/gwot), or the body's frame. Tigers tend bigger, but pound for pound leopards are stronger.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The big difference between bears and cats is lean muscle mass. All of these big cats are practically all muscle, hence the strength compared to bears, which are slower and tend to lug around a lot more fat for their weight, up to 30% fat when they go to hibernate. Size also makes a big difference, big cats like Siberian Tigers are known to occasionally eat Polar Bears.

Bear fat is delicious. Never eaten tiger or leopard, just trained the styles.

In Chinese kung fu the leopard style is singled out for building strength (lek) and manpower, where the tiger style is building bone (gum/gwot), or the body's frame. Tigers tend bigger, but pound for pound leopards are stronger.

View attachment 27892

I have been at 2 zoos San Diego and Disney and both said the same thing..... they trust Jaguars least of all their cats

 

[Flying Crane]

I watched a 35 year old construction worker get “hooked“ in the calf by a 60lbs female cougar named blaze. He got too close to the feed hole of the enclosure and she reached out and got two hooks in his calf. He tried to grab her foot and disengage, at this point she got one hook through the muscle in the web of his right hand. he could not pull free. It took three of us to free him from her grasp, during which time she bit his hand and damaged 3 fingers very badly, nearly chewing the middle one off. This was a 60 lbs cougar. A couple of the large male African leopards we had on the compound were FAR more dangerous and capable. My point here is that people who haven’t experienced what a big cat can do when “turned on” have no idea just how powerful they really are. We also had a timid and extremely large Amur tiger named Reesha. 11 ft. Long, close to 700lbs.( a tad bit overweight) who I witnessed shatter a large bowling ball whe he gently swatted it at the steel pole that supported his enclosure roof. He was as frightened by his display as I was, but I will never forget it. When people talk about wrestling or punching one of these creatures into submission, well I guess I just can’t imagine how that could be reality after seeing a couple people get into these situations in person.

They are welcome to try, says I.