MA programs in schools

[KempoGuy06]

This started buzzing around in my head after reading the thread by MJS and the age at which to start kids in MA's.

Is there a MA program at schools near you? I know they have them at the YMCA or colleges but what about grade, middle and high schools?

I think this would be a great thing to implement, a lot of kids dont have the ablility to play sports in high school, or dont want to do ROTC, so the MA's would be perfect. It could also be perfect for parents who may not be able to pick up there kids from school or dont have to to take them to the dojo every night.

Thoughts?

B

 

[bushidomartialarts]

It took me three years to get them to bite, but I'm starting one with local schools in November. I'll report in a month or so.

Lots of schools are very resistant...liability and all that.

 

[stone_dragone]

The best I can remember hearing about American schools (outside of the movie "Only the Strong") including a MA curriculum is the occasional self-defense section in the PE class.

I'm waiting with baited breath to see how your class works out, bushidomartialarts.

 

[KempoGuy06]

yes, keep us updated. I would understand the concerns, but would the liability be any different than football?

B

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

There was a Tae Kwon Do program that ran in a public school that ran in a school near where I am. I heard that there were some positive results. I've tried getting some Karate programs going, but have run into some roadblocks, going to keep trying though!

I too, Bushido, am anxiously awaiting to hear how your program turns out, best of luck to you!
​

 

[tellner]

There is a couple problems here in the States. One is money. School budgets are already pretty thin, especially in "non-essentials" - anything that doesn't teach to the standardized tests. A much bigger one is The L Word which is some variation on Liability, Lawyers or Legal. If a kid who has taken the course punches out another kid the school district is going to be the designated deep pocket which will get sued. If you teach a self defense class that passes the legal department's review it will be pretty useless as physical self defense.

 

[terryl965]

Oh yes the all mighty dollar, the united states of money. School do not like us because we bring in the so called real world to those that lead around in life with blinders on.

 

[KempoGuy06]

Its a ****ing shame that the people of this country are so sue happy. Lord how I wish how they would have had some kind of program in my school when I was there.

B

 

[PictonMA]

I've been teaching afterschool martial arts programs for 12 years, they exist for sure and run very well.

I typically run 8 week sessions 3 -4 times over the course of the school year. They typically run 1 hour per class, 1 day per week immediately following the end of school.

 

[Blindside]

I think this would be a great thing to implement, a lot of kids dont have the ablility to play sports in high school, or dont want to do ROTC, so the MA's would be perfect. It could also be perfect for parents who may not be able to pick up there kids from school or dont have to to take them to the dojo every night.

I ran the martial arts section of an afterschool program at an elementary school in Seattle for about 6 months.

It was a pretty good setup, my class ran from 4-5:30 twice a week, pretty much just filling in the time from when school let out to when parents came to pick the students up. I ran it in quarter-year blocks so that I had the same level of students in each class. There was no uniform, and I was mostly just teaching basics common to most Kenpo/Karate systems, so that if another instructor continued the work that I started, it would be relatively seamless.

By the end of the first quarter I had students doing Long 1, and improvised self-defense against adult attackers. At the end of each quarter we would do a demo for the parents of the enrolled students.

Each quarter I started with a class of 20 and by the end of the quarter suffered about 50% attrition.

At the end of each quarter I had interested students who wanted to continue, and thats when things got weird. I wasn't affiliated with any Seattle school, so I started asking local schools if I could check out their kids programs so I could recommend them onto my students. Not one of them would let me in their doors, I guess they didn't like the idea of someone evaluating their program.

Unfortunately that program had a hard time finding another isntructor to follow up behind me, so I think it fell apart.

Lamont

 

[Ceicei]

The closest to this is the RADkids program during school hours at my daughter's elementary school. This program just started this year. They're doing this training in groups by grade classes and started with the 2nd grade. From what the promotion says, this is primarily a safety course with a little bit of self defense tactics and hitting/kicking practices put in.

My daughter used to take Kenpo and when this program started, she wanted to take RADkids. I'm curious to see what the results would be by the end of the school year whether the school feels this is worth it to extend for next year or for other schools in the district to add this program.

- Ceicei

 

[KempoGuy06]

I ran the martial arts section of an afterschool program at an elementary school in Seattle for about 6 months.

It was a pretty good setup, my class ran from 4-5:30 twice a week, pretty much just filling in the time from when school let out to when parents came to pick the students up. I ran it in quarter-year blocks so that I had the same level of students in each class. There was no uniform, and I was mostly just teaching basics common to most Kenpo/Karate systems, so that if another instructor continued the work that I started, it would be relatively seamless.

By the end of the first quarter I had students doing Long 1, and improvised self-defense against adult attackers. At the end of each quarter we would do a demo for the parents of the enrolled students.

Each quarter I started with a class of 20 and by the end of the quarter suffered about 50% attrition.

At the end of each quarter I had interested students who wanted to continue, and thats when things got weird. I wasn't affiliated with any Seattle school, so I started asking local schools if I could check out their kids programs so I could recommend them onto my students. Not one of them would let me in their doors, I guess they didn't like the idea of someone evaluating their program.

Unfortunately that program had a hard time finding another isntructor to follow up behind me, so I think it fell apart.

Lamont

Thats awsome. It sounds like it was working well. Its a shame that it fell apart.

B

 

[KempoGuy06]

The closest to this is the RADkids program during school hours at my daughter's elementary school. This program just started this year. They're doing this training in groups by grade classes and started with the 2nd grade. From what the promotion says, this is primarily a safety course with a little bit of self defense tactics and hitting/kicking practices put in.

My daughter used to take Kenpo and when this program started, she wanted to take RADkids. I'm curious to see what the results would be by the end of the school year whether the school feels this is worth it to extend for next year or for other schools in the district to add this program.

- Ceicei

Thats pretty cool. I would love to here how it turns out

B

 

[tellner]

Frankly, I sympathize with the schools. It's not just being suit-happy. And it's not "bringing the real world into the schools". A regular teacher has certain qualifications and responsibilities that an independent contractor does not. A black belt does not confer the ability to teach. It demands nothing in the way of standardized predictable training in pedagogy, childhood development or anything similar. In essence, you're asking the schools to trust and put their reputation behind someone whose sole credential is in hitting people pretty well. I can certainly understand why a school district would be extremely reluctant to do so.

If you had to have other qualifications like exercise physiology, coaching certification, educational psychology and so on to be a martial arts instructor they would be less reluctant. It would show that the person has a certain amount of training in how to teach, something they could point to when parents ask "Why are you letting a bozo in white pajamas teach our kids how to beat people up?" I wouldn't want that sort of thing to be a requirement for MA instruction, and that's part of the price for that sort of freedom.

Lawsuit crazed? Partly. But consider it with a little more thought. If you had a martial arts class that taught effective technique and it was misused the victims and their families could say with a great deal of justice "This would not have happened if the school had not had that class. The school is at least partly responsible." Add the fact that public schools do not have the discretion in who does or doesn't take a PE class that a private club enjoys. The legitimate liability issues let alone the excessive ones make it less than worthwhile, especially when there are other activities which won't require special waivers and will provide all sorts of other benefits.

As to the "real world" nature of martial arts, I'm afraid it's more in our minds than in objective reality. Martial arts programs have many benefits. Actual self defense is generally way down the list no matter what we say to ourselves or the courtesies we pay to each other. The ones that are teach attitudes and skills which I would hesitate to teach to a kid who hasn't already gone through the hormonal storm and consequent mild insanity that characterize adolescence.

Combative sports like freestyle wrestling, Olympic TKD, fencing and American football are one thing. And I'm still not sure that football should be one of the acceptable ones. No smiley. Feint-shift-kill, Thai kick - downward elbow to the base of the skull - tie up - neck break, pass - fillet - stab - withdrawing cut, and grab-squeeze-twist-pull are way beyond the pale. Then there's the mindset that goes with that, turning off compassion and treating another human being as a thing to cripple and kill. There are circumstances under which I'd teach that to a younger person, but it would have to be on a case by case basis under exceptional conditions. It would certainly not be to whatever comes through the door in 5th period PE. That's reality. It is not pleasant. I don't think it has a place in the general public school curriculum.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Our Judo Sensi was once ask to teach Judo in a private school in Hilo town.

After one year: They were hardly any fights in schools
2. Students were more respectfully with teachers and other students
3. The grade point aveages when up
4. Less injuries on campus..because each child learn how to fall and roll in Judo.

The cost to get it going was a little to high and it was hard to find more Judo teachers.
-------------------------------------------------------------
JUDO was a great role model for kids to learn and follow.
It also built confidence in the kids too. (from bullies).

Teaching martial arts in school or after school is great program.
Our Dojo is in the elementary school Cafeteria. Many of the kids go to school there. We know it help them all around.

 

[Dusty]

www.karatekids.ca


i ran this program in my town for the last two years. i pulled out near the end of this past summer as the karate kids group wanted a boat load of money from the host martial arts school to run it.
no thanks!

 

[Kacey]

I taught a TKD class at the middle school where I teach for a school year; I had a lot of interest at first, but all but 2 students dropped out within the first 4 classes - they weren't expecting discipline and hard work, they wanted to learn to fight and nothing else. I had one student ready for 9th gup, and invited him to my regular class to test - and never saw him again. With only one student after that, the class didn't last very long.