Looking for instructional content on Karate takedowns

[philwhite54 10]

Most of my time doing karate has focused mainly on striking. Its where I am most proficient. I'd like to improve my knowledge in takedowns but I don't have anywhere local to train in grappling so I was wonding if anyone had any good links or video recommendations. I've watched a few lyoto machida videos that were pretty decent on this. I'm mainly looking to see how to add in some simple and relatively safe takedowns into my free sparring routines. Nothing crazy. I have a grappling dummy and my family members to practice with for this. Looking to see how I can best use something like a jab or rear punch set up to move into postion for a front or rear leg sweep. Also any good elementary arm throws to practice from moving in on attack or countering. Thanks

 

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

The "knee seizing" is the easiest throw to learn. You pull your opponent's leg behind the knee and push his shoulder at the same time.

 

[Same Trick74 25]

Karate throws a “lost” art -

The 9 Lost Throws of Funakoshi Gichin: Karate's Forgotten Takedown Techniques

There’s tons of wild moves in Karate. At least if you know where to look. Having been around the world in pursuit of such techniques for many years now, I’m always amazed when I bump into Karate people who have no clue that there’s all kinds of crazy stuff in old-school Karate. I’m talking joint...

www.karatebyjesse.com

 

[jks9199100 24]

You're better off finding a judo or BJJ school that can give you some real lessons. There's a lot of sneaky subtleties involved in throws and takedown if you want them to actually work rather than just show with a compliant partner. A club rather than a commercial school might be easier to work with on a less formal basis.

 

[Prince_Alarming66 2]

While grappling night is my favourite, @jks9199 makes a valid point, if you want to get into this art that karate is losing or in most cases has already lost, judo is your best bet. Lots of randori and practically the first thing you learn is the art of falling safely.

 

[isshinryuronin18 18]

Karate "throws" (I prefer referring to them as takedowns) are done in conjunction with striking, strikes often done to set up the takedown (or actually be part of it) and certainly done immediately after the takedown. In this regard it's often (not always) different than judo or wrestling or sumo) throws. In karate, the takedown is only to facilitate a finishing strike/joint break - no points for just the takedown in competition. In an actual self-defense context, a throw that doesn't incapacitate the opponent is a waste.

 

[philwhite54 10]

You're better off finding a judo or BJJ school that can give you some real lessons. There's a lot of sneaky subtleties involved in throws and takedown if you want them to actually work rather than just show with a compliant partner. A club rather than a commercial school might be easier to work with on a less formal basis.

I agree. When I have some more time I'll probably see if I can't do a few lessons up in the city. Just looking to sharpen my skills and be a little more well rounded.

 

[Prince_Alarming66 2]

Karate throws a “lost” art -

The 9 Lost Throws of Funakoshi Gichin: Karate's Forgotten Takedown Techniques

There’s tons of wild moves in Karate. At least if you know where to look. Having been around the world in pursuit of such techniques for many years now, I’m always amazed when I bump into Karate people who have no clue that there’s all kinds of crazy stuff in old-school Karate. I’m talking joint...

www.karatebyjesse.com

Awesome resource

 

[wab25]

Lyoto Machida: Old-School Karate

I've written plenty about Lyoto Machida 's karate over the past two years, but I thought we would try something different...

bleacherreport.com

(unfortunately, some of the pictures no longer load...)

 

[drop bear127 3]

I was hoping I could find a BJJ instructional system that put throws together in a way that made sense.

And BJJ. because they kind of don't like to get smashed to the ground. So a lot of the throws are a bit easier.

But i can't so I will just go piecemeal with throws I kind of like.

This one looks like you will send the guy flying. But you can catch them and let them down.

 

[wab25]

I was hoping I could find a BJJ instructional system that put throws together in a way that made sense.

And BJJ. because they kind of don't like to get smashed to the ground. So a lot of the throws are a bit easier.

But i can't so I will just go piecemeal with throws I kind of like.

This one looks like you will send the guy flying. But you can catch them and let them down.

Interestingly.... that is Funakoshi's interpretation of Gedan-Barai (the famous down block where you get your arm broke if you down block a kick with it....) That throw is the subject of the article I posted above.

 

[marvin8]

I don't have anywhere local to train in grappling so I was wonding if anyone had any good links or video recommendations. I've watched a few lyoto machida videos that were pretty decent on this. I'm mainly looking to see how to add in some simple and relatively safe takedowns into my free sparring routines.

I agree. When I have some more time I'll probably see if I can't do a few lessons up in the city. Just looking to sharpen my skills and be a little more well rounded.

A typical judo or BJJ (grappling) school will not integrate kicking, striking and takedowns in kumite. There is skill in technique (e.g., trips, throws) then skill in applying those techniques in sparring/fighting. Lyoto does not rely on gripping to control and set up his opponent for throws.

Karate throws a “lost” art -

The 9 Lost Throws of Funakoshi Gichin: Karate's Forgotten Takedown Techniques

There’s tons of wild moves in Karate. At least if you know where to look. Having been around the world in pursuit of such techniques for many years now, I’m always amazed when I bump into Karate people who have no clue that there’s all kinds of crazy stuff in old-school Karate. I’m talking joint...

www.karatebyjesse.com

Excerpt from "Lyoto Machida: Old-School Karate:"

“I am a firm believer that many (though not all) old, traditional techniques that look ridiculous can be reconfigured and given an appropriate setup to make them effective…

The problem with old martial arts techniques is the same as any technique: How are you going to get into position to do it?

Nobody is going to attack you with a stepping punch and allow you to use an upper rising block to smack it upward, then let you start your technique as Oyama did above. But change that stepping punch to the more popular jab or right straight, and the block to a driving arm or elbow used to parry the blow and enter in behind, and you're on to something…

 

[marvin8]

Lyoto Machida: Old-School Karate

I've written plenty about Lyoto Machida 's karate over the past two years, but I thought we would try something different...

bleacherreport.com

(unfortunately, some of the pictures no longer load...)

“Here's Seiji Nishimura, a living karate manual and coach of the Japanese team, demonstrating a much more sensible application of the same technique, in counter to an opponent's attack. And not some BS stepping punch either—the kind of jab you might see in competition or in any combat sport. Even then, however, you would be hard-pressed to find examples of it in high-level karate competition. ”

Seiji Nishimura. Seminar in Moscow 2010 (Punches, Sweeps and Throws)

“What about against Kazuhiro Nakamura? That guy was a student of Olympic gold-medal-winning judoka, Hidehiko Yoshida… Throughout the fight Nakamura kept throwing his powerful right hand and looking to step into the clinch. By both committing to a swing and bringing his feet close together in order to enter a clinch, Nakamura gave Machida the perfect opportunity to drive in behind his elbow and hit the wedge throw. ”

 

[Kung Fu Wang129 159]

I was wonding if anyone had any good links or video recommendations.

You may find some useful information in these 2 videos.

 

[drop bear127 3]

Something in a uchimada?

Pretty nice as far as hip throws go.

 

[punisher73]

Karate Grappling: Did It Really Exist? | Iain Abernethy

rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(64, 64, 64);">Karate Grappling: Did It Really Exist? In this...

iainabernethy.com

He also has a good book called "Karate's Grappling Methods".

 

[Prince_Alarming66 2]

Karate Grappling: Did It Really Exist? | Iain Abernethy

rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(64, 64, 64);">Karate Grappling: Did It Really Exist? In this...

iainabernethy.com

He also has a good book called "Karate's Grappling Methods".

Ooh I'll put that one on my Amazon list

 

[isshinryuronin18 18]

Karate Grappling: Did It Really Exist? | Iain Abernethy

rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(64, 64, 64);">Karate Grappling: Did It Really Exist? In this...

iainabernethy.com

To summarize Abernathy's article (paragraphs would have been nice) and reiterate points previously made here by myself on a number of occasions:

Joint locks, takedowns and throws have always been part of karate.

They are not highly developed for sport or against a trained grappler, but rather against common attackers.

Rather than being the primary focus, they are supplemental to striking and to be used in conjunction with it.

They are found in most all traditional kata.

They were, to various degrees, lost in the export of karate to Japan and the US (by intent of the Okinawans to hide karate's true nature, and by the Japanese so as to not overlap judo/jiu-jitsu teaching curriculum).

I hope others read this article to clear up misunderstandings of what karate is and eliminate uninformed debate on comparisons with other arts.

 

[gspell68]

This guy has some interesting stuff…

 

[isshinryuronin18 18]

This guy has some interesting stuff…

Good stuff! Very Okinawan looking in his fighting techniques: Quick combos, close-in attacks, upright stance... Many of his techniques are found in kata, much to the dismay of those who maintain kata is not for combat. Modern Shotokan can use more of his influence, IMO. Asai reminds me of a young Funakoshi. He's not so much "revolutionary" as the title says, but rather reactionary, heeding back to the Shotokan's early years.