Long Form 4

i figuered out who you are ! are you still training you know who's curriculum? i am currently teaching dave d ,jeff f and steve mc f how's that for irony? give me an email
[email protected]
Although I train in an offshoot of EPAK where we don't do the AK curriculum we are close enough to the AK system to hear a few comments. The one that stuck out in my head was that Long 4 was the workhorse of Kenpo. I seem to recall that Long 5 deals with takedowns and Long 6 with weapons. So to take a stab at it I would think that Long 4 deals with all the empty hand aspects of the art.

Now as I said I'm not familiar with these forms so I'm sure someone else can add more insight and possibly correct me.

Oh I shamelessy stole this from kenponet.com,

Short 1 - Retreating with a Front Hand Block
Long 1 - Retreating with a Front Hand Block and a Rear Hand Counter
Short 2 - Advancing with front hand block and front and rear hand counters, using multiple power principles
Long 2 - Multiple attacks from a stance, crossovers, and elbow strikes
The Basic Forms of Kenpo
Short 3 - Basic Defenses against grabs, chokes, and holds
Long 3 - Further defenses against grabs, chokes, and holds
Long 4 - Defenses against punches and kicks
Circular Hand Motions in Long 4
Long 5 - Takedown techniques
Long 6 - Weapons defenses against knives, clubs, and pistols
Long 7 - Techniques with Kenpo sticks
Two-Man Set - The Rules And Principles Of Kenpo In Combat

What excatcly do you mean by the term Needling?

Got awhile before I get to learn this one. I still have to learn short and long 3. I thought I new short and long 2 but after tonight, I really need to practice those forms more often.

I always thought that was something your wife did to get you to take out the trash, or some other chore..:shrug:


1. The use of the DOUBLE FACTOR against a
two-punch combination, one factor for each
2. The use of quarter beat timing when
calculating the use of Borrowed Force.
3. The diagonal fanning of parries to cancel both
Height and Width Zones.
4. The use of a front crossover to add power to a
punch off the rear hand.
5. Threading.
6. How to utilize a Diversified Angle of Attack
from an Obscure Zone.
7. The benefits of a Grafted Principle.
8. Familiarizes you with the concept of
Progressive Directional Harmony.
9. An introduction to working on the inside of
two punches.
10. How to employ various depths of action within
the Dimensional Stages of Action when using
reverse motion.
11. Teaches you instinctive responses to varying
depth factors related to the Dimensional
Stages of Action.
12. How to take dual action from two Points of
Origin, whereby both block and strike occur
13. How to control your opponent's Height and
Width Zones while following a figure 8 path of
14. The continuous flow of circular moves to
counter your opponent.
15. To have your natural weapons travel from Point
of Origin in a looping overhead manner, while
employing the principle of guidelining to
create deceptive, powerful, and accurate
16. Teaches you how to first intercept a kick and
then redirect it through a captured means of
17. The use of Object Obscurity, when properly
timed with your footwork to provide multiple
18. How to function underneath a punch while
interacting and interchanging offensive and
defensive maneuvers within the identical
framework of your circular movements.
19. When the dimension of depth is at a standstill
the dimension of width generated from a
rotating twist stance can be duplicated to
obtain the desired force.
20. The offensive use of stance changes that
amplifies the effectiveness of your aggressive
21. The use of reverse and returning motion where
Completed Paths of Travel accentuate the value
of following through with your strikes.
22. That not all combat commences when you find
yourself in a suitable position.
23. You learn how reverse motion can residually
provide defensive and
offensive answers to combination strikes.
24. You learn that the use of a twist stance is
twofold, (1) while retreating to help create
distance, and (2) when unwinding from your
twist stance to gain greater power rotational)
when applying your second defense.
25. How to employ your furthest leg to your
opponent's closest leg, and your closest leg
to his furthest leg when executing double
kicks to the flank (side chicken kick).
26. Simultaneous moves: like as well as opposite
27. Needling.
28. The use of the DOUBLE FACTOR against a
combination kick-punch attack, one factor for
each attack.
29. Gaseous Motion against multiple attackers from
multiple directions.
30. A detailed study of the use of opposites and
31. The use of a sweeping action to divert and
32. Altered timing for specific needs. Rhythmatic
changes can contribute to the power of your
33. The flow of action can continually stem from
the last flow of action.
34. Angle Matching
35. Rhythmatic changes of timing and breathing to
activate and enhance internal energy that
proportionally increases power.
36. Isolated moves that when taken out of context
can be gainfully employed.
37. Angular maneuvers employing twist stances.
38. Transitional buckles that weaken an opponent's
base more than once. The use of a follow up
buckle that destroys an already weakened base.
39. Cradling as a means of employing dual motion
from two Points of Origin.
40. The use of a rotating twist stance to take you
into the Gaseous State of Motion in multiple
directions while remaining in place.
41. How to advance and retreat in a Zig-Zag
42. Various methods of executing the fingers so
that if one method should fail the other
methods may be instantly called upon as
43. The use of Mid-Point Balance.
44. The themes of the self-defense techniques
contained in the form.
45. The principles contained in each of the
self-defense techniques.
46. To convert techniques from the Liquid State of
Motion to the Gaseous State of Motion.


1. The use of corresponding angles will greatly enhance the aesthetics and effectiveness of your movements.

2. Learn to use cat stances and forward bows as "holding points" in the form. These "poses" allow you moments to harness the force, and gather your mental energy.

3. The use of rhythmatic breathing throughout this form will allow for those moments where you wish to use explosive breathing.

4. Study moments in the form where you can lock out movements.

5. Look for other moments where you can kiai in the form.

6. Be in shape. Improve your muscle response, especially your endurance.

7. Accentuate the strength in your stances and the depth of your foot maneuvers.

Originally posted by tonbo

So, GoldenDragon......quick question: Can I petition you to get a *complete* list of what is in Long 4?

Sure, but you'd have to be a direct student or your school a member of the IKKO. LOL, I share a good deal with the "net" but I must keep some for my organization and direct students.

I'm sure you can understand my position.

Originally posted by AvPKenpo

Okay, I believe I got it.Thanks,


Ok, here's a little better definition.

Needling - A method of contouring that requies 2 natural weapons simultaneously TRACK their way to the target.


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