Lok Hup Ba Fa (luihebafa)

[Xue Sheng]

ok I'm trying to catch up on Santi shi and from my google search, pictures and videos that I have found, those same movements are in the TTCS xingyi set... But as I don't know much at all about xingyi yet as I have not taken it at this point in time I may not even know what to look for. I take xingyi for a week training in June. I was told that while learning xingyi that certain movements are done repeatedly (much more so than the other forms) to train the body and mind on how to correctly do them and even held still for a time to build that strength... Again I don't know much about it but this is what I was told by different people. Additionally, some that I spoke to said that they strive to hold certain positions for 30 minutes.... perhaps this is what is being referenced?

Santi Shi

Click the above link that is santi shi and yes you will see that in many forms in xingyiquan but doing that in the form is not training Santi.

You need to get in that position and stand in it and NOT move to train it and Xingyi without that is, to be honest the only word I can think of is, floppy. Meaning to loose and limp there is no root and no understanding of application and without Santi Shi training there is no internal either

 

[DaPoets]

I guess I'll comment on it further from the TTCS stand point after I study it in June for a week. It will be for 5 days, 8 hours a day so I'm sure I'll have some things to say about the topic. This is great stuff though for me to ask durring the sessions.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I guess I'll comment on it further from the TTCS stand point after I study it in June for a week. It will be for 5 days, 8 hours a day so I'm sure I'll have some things to say about the topic. This is great stuff though for me to ask durring the sessions.

I look forward to your post

 

[East Winds]

I have to say, that as it is now some time since I left the TTCS, things may have changed. But in my day, any mention of Santi would have been met with a blank stare. The Xing Yi I was taught by the Society was what Oxy would call Taji Xing Yi!!! and was nothing like the Xing Yi I did a little of some years later. Unless the Society has changed its attitude to applying the martial, then I'm afraid it will still be the same old floppy energy-less forms. As others have said, you cannot do Xing Yi without a martial content.

It was interesting to see DaPoets saying that the TTCS was now a Religious organisation teaching Tai Chi. In my day, Moy was very careful to keep the religious side well away from the TTCS (confining it to Fung Loy Kok and Gei Pang) in case it frightened the old ladies away. So there is obviously some changes taking place in the Society.

Very best wishes

 

[mograph]

Fung Loy Kok owns the new temple in Orangeville.

 

[mograph]

DaPoets, are you a teacher with the TTCS?

If you are a teacher, and you do any martial arts research outside the TTCS, I'd advise you to keep it to yourself or risk losing your class. At least, you might be asked to "step back and reflect" on your relationship to TTCS.

But, being in Buffalo, you might have some kind of a buffer in that way. In Toronto, word travels pretty fast up the food chain.

 

[DaPoets]

I have to say, that as it is now some time since I left the TTCS, things may have changed. But in my day, any mention of Santi would have been met with a blank stare. The Xing Yi I was taught by the Society was what Oxy would call Taji Xing Yi!!! and was nothing like the Xing Yi I did a little of some years later. Unless the Society has changed its attitude to applying the martial, then I'm afraid it will still be the same old floppy energy-less forms. As others have said, you cannot do Xing Yi without a martial content.

It was interesting to see DaPoets saying that the TTCS was now a Religious organisation teaching Tai Chi. In my day, Moy was very careful to keep the religious side well away from the TTCS (confining it to Fung Loy Kok and Gei Pang) in case it frightened the old ladies away. So there is obviously some changes taking place in the Society.

Very best wishes

After Mr Moy's passing the 3 pretty much merged for the most part. You will see FLK events just as easily as TTCS events.

 

[DaPoets]

DaPoets, are you a teacher with the TTCS?

If you are a teacher, and you do any martial arts research outside the TTCS, I'd advise you to keep it to yourself or risk losing your class. At least, you might be asked to "step back and reflect" on your relationship to TTCS.

But, being in Buffalo, you might have some kind of a buffer in that way. In Toronto, word travels pretty fast up the food chain.

Yes I am an instructor with TTCS and a close minded instructor is a weak instructor. I attend classes not only in Buffalo but also in Toronto and Orangeville (international center). There is no reason to not inquire, read, view, and increase your knowledge of what is out there outside of TTCS and not even the most senior instructors will tell you that is ok and will even encourage you to. It is when you start to take offical classes/instruction from another group/master that will then get people upset as it's not good to have more than one master. 12 years of being in TTCS has shown me this to be true. If you are located farther from the source (Toronto/Orangeville) then things can get a bit weird and groups have even spun off to do their own thing. There are groups that promot the fact that they were founded by Master Moy and promote their teachings but are not TTCS.....

All this is reason to educate yourself on the ins and outs of what ever org you are a part of so you can make your own sound choices and ask the right questions.

I have defended TTCS much here but at the same time, I ask questions too so I can be more aware of what I am getting and what I may be missing in TTCS.

"It is better to open your eyes and say you don't understand than to close your eyes and say you don't believe" G.C.

 

[oxy]

IThe Xing Yi I was taught by the Society was what Oxy would call Taji Xing Yi!!!

Actually, to be technical about it, I wouldn't.

I don't use Taiji in the Taijibafa portmanteau as a pejorative. I use it to describe a lack of Liuhe and the injection of Taiji principles/techniques. I think LHBF is more complete than Taiji, but that doesn't mean I think Taiji is not good at all. I'm learning Taiji at work, now.

Judging by what you say and what others say about TTCS Xingyi (ie, no Santi, no Xingyi), calling it Taiji Xingyi would give TTCS Xingyi credibility.

 

[East Winds]

Oxy,

Sorry, I didn't mean to use the reference to you in any derogatory manner. I only meant to try an show that TTCS Xing Yi lacked an essential ingredient, without which it could not be truly considered to be Xing Yi. (You really would not want to see their Liu He Ba Fa!!!!)

Very best wishes

 

[Myrmidon]

These videos are really cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO05iDDex4A&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si6vxAQq__k&NR=1

 

[mograph]

(You really would not want to see their Liu He Ba Fa!!!!)

East Winds, could anybody at TTCS do decent Liuhebafa?

 

[DaPoets]

There is some really great Liuhebafa in the TTCS actually as it is the primary art that Master Moy Lin Shin had a desire to teach when he came to Canada in 1970. Granted that those that live further away from Toronto may not be getting the active training needed to improve themselves with it but I have seen some great stuff.

 

[mograph]

Who were the best liuhebafa practitioners, DaPoets?

 

[East Winds]

mograph,

That is a question of course which I cannot answer. I can only talk of my own limited experience here in the UK. What I can say in relation to that is, that compared to what I was taught after I left the TTCS, the TTCS teaching was extremely low quality. Enough to say, that , how can you teach a martial art that contains no martial intent?

Very best wishes

 

[mograph]

Fair enough. Thanks, East Winds.

 

[DaPoets]

Yeah East Winds the more I hear of your experience in TTCS the more I understand why people from overseas come and stay at Orangeville for months at a time. You can't get the level of instruction needed to really appreciate what TTCS has to offer unless you have a very experienced instructor. My experience and yours are very different because Master Moy would call us all the time to come have dinner with him and the Toronto people, not even to mention the level of Tai Chi instruction we were (still are) getting due to our proximity to Toronto.

 

[mograph]

DaPoets, who did you see teach Liuhebafa (in Orangeville or Toronto) when Master Moy was alive?

 

[DaPoets]

well... Master Moy....
But people like Sean, Tony, and John are all extremely impressive.

 

[taichiplayer]

Ben Chung no longer teaches with the TTCS. He is a founder and instructor with the Canadian Tai Chi Academy. He still teaches in Toronto. Web site is www.canadiantaichiacademy.org