Lack of lower body protection in Kung Fu?

Xue Sheng

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pretty much another non-response, huh? without clarifying your words, i can only imply your intent from my initial read.

your web-fu skills are stong, as evidenced on this and other fora. the answers you are looking for are out there if YOU do the work.

here again, you are implying without knowing, and using innuendo and passive aggressive behavior to flame. you obviously do not know me, what i do and how i train, and obviously don't care enough to find out. yet, you make an unfounded assumption based on your lack of knowledge.

if you get a chance, you still may want to explain your position to the title of this thread and original question relative to why you feel the need to say that 'even tai chi' doesn't lack lower body protection...

pete

And yet you still do not answer my question as a matter of fact you have never answered any question I have asked (although admittedly I have not asked you that many) as to what style of taiji you actually train...and I have asked at least twice now....that is if you do in fact train taiji and to be honest I doubt you do. And if you do I can only guess you have combined your "Karate" I see you are again claiming to train in your profile with it to make your "expanded" version that would in fact not be taiji at all now would it?

Now as to the work to find this info, to be honest you are not worth the time, since I do fully believe you are a troll based on your "contributions" to many posts in the CMA section and I see no reason to feed into your issues any longer nor are you worth my time explaining anything to.

See ya pete, respond if you will but I have nothing further to say to you.


:feedtroll
 

Sukerkin

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Chaps, if you don't get along, isn't it better just not to 'talk' to each other, or correspond via PM, rather than do your 'laundry' out in public?

After all, one of the base tenets of almost every internet fora is that 'personal attacks/remarks' are not in line with the code of conduct that we all agree too when we sign up.
 

pete

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And yet you still do not answer my question as a matter of fact you have never answered any question I have asked (although admittedly I have not asked you that many) as to what style of taiji you actually train...and I have asked at least twice now....that is if you do in fact train taiji and to be honest I doubt you do. And if you do I can only guess you have combined your "Karate" I see you are again claiming to train in your profile with it to make your "expanded" version that would in fact not be taiji at all now would it?

Now as to the work to find this info, to be honest you are not worth the time, since I do fully believe you are a troll based on your "contributions" to many posts in the CMA section and I see no reason to feed into your issues any longer nor are you worth my time explaining anything to.

See ya pete, respond if you will but I have nothing further to say to you.


:feedtroll

If i were a troll, perhaps i'd be asking you 3 questions. but i don't i ask one, and again one that is on topic with this particular thread and relavant to the overall tone. if your choice of phrasing was poor, be a man and admit to it. if i mis-read or mis-interpreted, please clarify. if i was on the mark, and that is what you meant, please explain so that i can further contrast my positive experiences with what you may be lacking.

i do not see why i should have to answer to your inquistion, or unfounded doubts regarding my training, my art, and how i teach... yes i teach and i have students that are members on this very board.

Surprising, for someone with such accusations, I for one have never seen pictures or video clips of YOU in action. best you can do is quote from others, droll on and on about your peaks and valleys and switching of styles, teachers, ad nauseum. but with all that, i've never made any unfounded accusations relative to your practice, or lack there of. even if i did have doubts that you ever actually climbed away from your keyboard to practice ANY of the arts you obviously have read about and watched on youtube, well, i'd keep them to myself as we never met, i do not know you and any conclusions would be purely supposition and presumption.

I am not presumptuous. Are you? what facts do you have to back up any of the accusations you are slandering me here with in your written word?

Or are you just projecting your own insecuritues, and lack of training onto a name on a forum? maybethe whole troll-calling thing is the pot calling the kettle black. huh?

So you can answer these questions, or answer the question i first raised on topic to the thread... or put up or shut up. if you want to stand as grand inquisitor to those you do not know, at least build yourself as a basis for being in such a position. share with us some pics, videos, etc of YOU.

my guess is that you will shut up rather than put up, but i'd rather that you prove me wrong.

pete
 

pete

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Chaps, if you don't get along, isn't it better just not to 'talk' to each other, or correspond via PM, rather than do your 'laundry' out in public?

After all, one of the base tenets of almost every internet fora is that 'personal attacks/remarks' are not in line with the code of conduct that we all agree too when we sign up.

yeah, i don't get it. i ask a question in line with the topic and he comes back with false accusations and slander...
 

Xue Sheng

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If i were a troll, perhaps i'd be asking you 3 questions. but i don't i ask one, and again one that is on topic with this particular thread and relavant to the overall tone. if your choice of phrasing was poor, be a man and admit to it. if i mis-read or mis-interpreted, please clarify. if i was on the mark, and that is what you meant, please explain so that i can further contrast my positive experiences with what you may be lacking.

i do not see why i should have to answer to your inquistion, or unfounded doubts regarding my training, my art, and how i teach... yes i teach and i have students that are members on this very board.

Surprising, for someone with such accusations, I for one have never seen pictures or video clips of YOU in action. best you can do is quote from others, droll on and on about your peaks and valleys and switching of styles, teachers, ad nauseum. but with all that, i've never made any unfounded accusations relative to your practice, or lack there of. even if i did have doubts that you ever actually climbed away from your keyboard to practice ANY of the arts you obviously have read about and watched on youtube, well, i'd keep them to myself as we never met, i do not know you and any conclusions would be purely supposition and presumption.

I am not presumptuous. Are you? what facts do you have to back up any of the accusations you are slandering me here with in your written word?

Or are you just projecting your own insecuritues, and lack of training onto a name on a forum? maybethe whole troll-calling thing is the pot calling the kettle black. huh?

So you can answer these questions, or answer the question i first raised on topic to the thread... or put up or shut up. if you want to stand as grand inquisitor to those you do not know, at least build yourself as a basis for being in such a position. share with us some pics, videos, etc of YOU.

my guess is that you will shut up rather than put up, but i'd rather that you prove me wrong.

pete

Well I guess I lied, I will respond one more time.

Still no answer...hmmm.. interesting.

Nice use of defensive accusation and attacks against ones manhood, not very taiji now is it? However you over estimate your importance to me in such that I would feel the need to prove anything to you and prove my point as well as reinforce my beliefs about you at the same time.

There are a lot of people that say they teach taiji and have students when in fact not teaching real Taiji at all.

Now to do the moderators a favor.

I know I once told you that you were going to be the first person on my ignore list and I regret I did not keep that promise, you are however the second

Bye.
 

pete

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well, i've already done the mods a favor and reported your post as an unfounded accusation and direct personal attack, i hope the mods return the favor by taking appropriate disciplinary action.

i will do the other board members and readers a favor by extending to them an invitation to PM or email me for information, weblinks, pictures, and soon to be uploaded video clips of me relative to my tai chi practice. MT members can base their judgement of me on this material, and if there is any interest or opportunity to hook up in-person.

i do NOT hold out that same invitation to you (xue sheng) at this time, as you have shown lack of respect for me and the art you claim to practice.

finally, i will do myself a favor and leave this thread as-is. i will not pursue an answer regarding this particular thread, as obviously in your last 3 posts you Failed to address it, prefering to make me and my practice the topic of discussion. I will NOT however put you on IGNORE. I will NOT play PEEK-a-BOO with your posts, just in case you choose to again disrespect me and the art i love.

pete
 

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exile

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From what i have noticed, in my very brief time training in Hung Gar, is that there is very little blocking concerned with the lower half of the body. Especially the groin region. I understand that traditionally, most of the attacks were to the body as kung fu was more 'honorable.' Considering that most fighters on the streets will kick to the groin the first opportunity they see does this make Hung Gar, and Kung Fu in general impractical?

I'd like to go back to the OP and make explicit something that seems to have been implicit in a number of the responses. If, as you say, most fighters on the streets will kick to the groin the first opportunity they see, and if, as you seem to be assuming, most of the attacks [in Hung Gar] were to the body as kung fu was more 'honorable', then the conclusion—assuming it were really true that HG didn't teach ways to defend the lower body—would have to be that Hung Gar existed simply for `dueling' purposes between Hung Gar practitioners (since only under those conditions would an MA form be effective in spite of not protecting the lower body from what `most fighters on the street' will do)! Now how likely is that scenario in the case of a (possibly extremely) old traditional, family-lineage MA form? Does it make any sense at all? Certain modern developments of particular TMAs under pressure from sport competition may have developed systems of artificial dueling-style combat, but is there any reason to believe that this would have been the case in people who had the difficult life of country villagers of China in the past several centuries? Under those conditions, people are unlikely to have the luxury of developing elaborate dueling-style martial sport-type systems, I would think.

So you have to take the default to be that HG was an all-business, serious, street-effective MA, and look for the ways in which lower body defense might have been effective. There are all kinds of ways, as people have suggested, to ensure that a strike at the lower body does not connect, apart from upper body blocks; actually, the latter is probably one of the less effective approaches in general to protecting the lower body...
 

dmax999

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curious to why this would be worded so? in my reading it implies that if Tai Chi is doing it, certainly all arts would be... sorta like Tai Chi is the least common denominator, or the absolute minimum in terms of martial application. if i implied too much with this, please explain...

The implication here I believe was that Tai Chi done correctly, using the "minimum" to defend yourself you would not need to protect the groin. I disagree if that is what you are meaning. When doing Tai Chi it is best to target specific "weak spots" on opponents and that is one of the best ones. Seperate foot would be a perfect example. Because that is one of your targets it is also one of the parts of yourself you guard. There are not necessarly any "low blocks" showing this, but it is full of techniques to pull opponents off balance or move your feet/legs in ways to not let it be a target. I believe most of Northern Shaloin styles are very similar in this manner.

As for it was never a target for "honorable fights" I don't buy that for a second. Kung-Fu was not developed for tournaments, but for the battlefield where you would get killed if you fought someone better. Why would you ever limit what you allow yourself to do in that case. Some styles may have "bread it out" because it is not a useful strike in tournaments or competitions, but I assure you it was there at one point or still is and you just are not taught it for whatever reason.

As a side note... the version of Wing Chun I did in the past, that would be your primary target if it presented itself. We practiced specific kicks just for that for hours at a time on a bag rigged up horozontally. We didn't target it for damage, it was a speed kick designed to make oppenents hands suddenly reach down after being kicked allowing us to have a clear target to their face to finish the fight.
 

Em MacIntosh

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Low defense isn't just about the groin. I find I'm usually tripped or kicked from behind and rarely attacked face-on. To put one of your legs at the mercy of two of his is a bad idea. I'm assuming we're talking about more of a snap kick to whip the sack than a field goal. The snap kick is harder to defend against with stance but is still the most viable option rather than using your hands which have their own problems to worry about.
 

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