Kug Maky Ung Ryu Ninjitsu

[MJS]

1) I base my art off of my various experiences with competitive grappling, military training, and personal philosophies and beliefs. My art will always evolve and adapt.

2) Not to be insultive to the arts you have mentioned, but I feel their unarmed combat techniques are too complex to be effective under combat conditions, also not enough emphasis is placed on physical attributes. For me, simpler, more direct techniques are better. Having explosive power behind them even more so.

3) It is true that there are some X kan schools in Michigan, however I have neither the time , desire ,or money, to commute a great distance to train in something that I feel does not fit me best.

I still drop in from time to time at my BJJ school, I roll at army drill during combatives and still plan to do some grappling tourneys. Brian's intensives look good to me. To me , marshalling my own resources to train and create the system which feels most right to me and works for me is more pure than anything I could do with other people's history behind it, no matter how many thousands of years it goes back.

Thanks for the reply. To respond to your above comments.

1) Do you hold rank in anything that you've studied in the past? If so, what was the rank? I ask because its one thing if someone reaches blue belt and decides to leave vs. someone who reaches BB level. I'm not advocating creating something new, I'm talking more about opening your own school. In other words, I'm a 3rd in Kenpo, I still have a teacher to train under. If I open my own school, nothing wrong with that, I'm teaching material that was passed onto me. If I was only a blue belt, it wouldn't be right to pass myself off as something I was not.

2) Are you basing this off of what you've read or heard from someone or from what you've read or seen yourself? IMHO, if I simply watch a youtube clip of the Jinenkan, it'll probably be hard for me to grasp anything, especially considering that I don't train in any of the Kans. Now, if I was to go to a Jinenkan school and see it live, well that may give me a different opinion.

3) Ok, fair enough. Then again, speaking for myself only here, but if it was me, and it was something that I really wanted, or it was a matter of training in something legit or a Mcdojo, I'd rather make the drive. Even if I only made it once a week, I could try to supplement that with a private lesson.

 

[emiliozapata]

Brown in judo, blue in BJJ, otherwise I have just dabbled in various other art forms. My competition results have always been favorable; I really do feel rank doesn't equate to fighting ability, which is all I seek.

Rank equates to many things, sometimes even to fighting ability, so I do not denigrate it. Kevin Randleman for instance holds no official rank in any recognized martial art. How many here, who posess advanced ranks, are ready to step up and street or sport fight someone like him?

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

but I feel their unarmed combat techniques are too complex to be effective under combat conditions, also not enough emphasis is placed on physical attributes. For me, simpler, more direct techniques are better. Having explosive power behind them even more so.

What in your opinion makes them complex?

I personally do not see anything too complex that you do not find in Judo or Jujutsu. From my understanding it is not soley to rely on technique but to let the technique create itself. Same as physical strength knowing how to apply correct technique that disbalances your opponent,using correct leveraging,using the whole body as one unit among other principle theories is IMO what makes the Taijutsu aspect of Ninpo what it is. It is the way it is applied that seperates the Ninpo taijutsu from Judo IMO.

At least the conversation is becoming some what contructive.

 

[MJS]

Brown in judo, blue in BJJ, otherwise I have just dabbled in various other art forms. My competition results have always been favorable; I really do feel rank doesn't equate to fighting ability, which is all I seek.

Well, I for one have preached that countless times on this forum. While rank isn't everything, some however, do put it in a category of importance. People are going to want to see some sort of resume. Just like if I jumped from job to job to job, spending 1 yr. at one, 6 mos. at another, 2 yrs at yet another, and 1 month at another. Do you really think that an employer isn't going to question that? Doesn't seem to reliable to me, as far as work ethics go. Same thing with the arts. 3 mos. here, 1 yr there....and now someone is creating their own style?

Hey, do what you choose, just be prepared to answer questions.

Rank equates to many things, sometimes even to fighting ability, so I do not denigrate it. Kevin Randleman for instance holds no official rank in any recognized martial art. How many here, who posess advanced ranks, are ready to step up and street or sport fight someone like him?

My training does not make me a Superman, nor does yours or anyone else, and if it does, please point me to the person, because I'd love to train with them, if they can make you invincible. Highly unlikely I'd face someone such as who you mention, however, if by chance I did, I'd do whatever it took to win. May get my *** kicked in the process, but I certainly wouldn't go down without a fight.

 

[MJS]

What in your opinion makes them complex?

I personally do not see anything too complex that you do not find in Judo or Jujutsu. From my understanding it is not soley to rely on technique but to let the technique create itself. Same as physical strength knowing how to apply correct technique that disbalances your opponent,using correct leveraging,using the whole body as one unit among other principle theories is IMO what makes the Taijutsu aspect of Ninpo what it is. It is the way it is applied that seperates the Ninpo taijutsu from Judo IMO.

Good question, and one that I'd like to see an answer from as well.

At least the conversation is becoming some what contructive.

Strange things do happen. LOL!

 

[Flying Crane]

please show me a straightforward question, not asked rudely, that I did not answer and I'll answer it for ya.

Not to be insultive to the arts you have mentioned, but I feel their unarmed combat techniques are too complex to be effective under combat conditions, also not enough emphasis is placed on physical attributes. For me, simpler, more direct techniques are better. Having explosive power behind them even more so.

I've got a straight forward question that I originally asked, I believe in your other thread on Taijutsu, and if you answered it, I apologize but I missed the answer. At any rate, I haven't seen a clear answer for my question, so I'll ask again:

Specifically regarding the portion I bolded, emphasis placed on physical attributes, are you referring to a muscular physique? Do you feel that someone ought to be in top physical condition and excessively muscled, in order to successfully practice martial techniques and defend oneself? Because this is what your comment suggests to me.

Do you feel that brute strength is a fair tradeoff for poor technique or poor understanding of martial methods? Do you feel that it is a good strategy to sort of bull your way thru a situation, relying on physical strength?

What do you feel is the appropriate relation between solid technique and understanding of martial methods, and physical athleticism or athletic ability, or downright muscular bodybuilding?

 

[Flying Crane]

Kevin Randleman for instance holds no official rank in any recognized martial art. How many here, who posess advanced ranks, are ready to step up and street or sport fight someone like him?

I've never heard of him.

 

[MJS]

I've got a straight forward question that I originally asked, I believe in your other thread on Taijutsu, and if you answered it, I apologize but I missed the answer. At any rate, I haven't seen a clear answer for my question, so I'll ask again:

Specifically regarding the portion I bolded, emphasis placed on physical attributes, are you referring to a muscular physique? Do you feel that someone ought to be in top physical condition and excessively muscled, in order to successfully practice martial techniques and defend oneself? Because this is what your comment suggests to me.

Do you feel that brute strength is a fair tradeoff for poor technique or poor understanding of martial methods? Do you feel that it is a good strategy to sort of bull your way thru a situation, relying on physical strength?

What do you feel is the appropriate relation between solid technique and understanding of martial methods, and physical athleticism or athletic ability, or downright muscular bodybuilding?

Another interesting question. Thank you for asking. I'm looking forward to his reply as well. IMO, I don't think strength is everything. My Kenpo teacher is older than I, smaller, both in height and weight, yet he has a vice like grip and hits hard. I've been on the receiving end of both. Just because someone has a roided up look to them, does not mean that they're any better of a fighter.

Just my .02.

 

[MJS]

I've never heard of him.

http://www.kevinrandleman.com/


http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Kevin-Randleman-162

 

[Flying Crane]

http://www.kevinrandleman.com/


http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Kevin-Randleman-162

Ah yes, THAT'S the guy hiding in the bushes, waiting to jump me for my lunch money...

 

[emiliozapata]

Personally, I feel many Judo and jiujitsu techniques are too complex as well. The thing about technique creating itself is what I was talking about when I said some things I learned along the way "felt right" to me and worked better for me. An example is osoto gari. From the standard mutual grips, I could never hit this throw. By way of instinct and chance, I found if I did a left sided osoto from a right lapel grip, initiating it by pulling hard to me and immediately stutter stepping into the opponent while "swimming my left arm over like a D-lineman, I could nail a hard osoto. This osoto was not technically correct but it worked for me most times.

Grappling is like this as well, I personally feel less stable mounted on someone than I do in kata gatame or kesa, so when I roll BJJ I take these two if I can get them, which confuses many BJJ players cause it is not a sidemount to standard. Kesa and kata gatame just feel right to me and I can use them alot better than a mount so I internalize them and modify it to BJJ style grappling.

 

[emiliozapata]

as for the attributes question, I believe in training for explosive strength. To do a bench press means virtually nothing to me. To do a timed bench press. i.e how explosively can I go from chest to top position is more applicable. Squatting? Who cares! How high can I jump? That is what is important, that equates to kick momentum and thus destructive force.

The best workout I have ever done besides randori? Working my garden bed over with an old fashioned high wheeled hand plow. The perfect simulation of the stresses of stand up grappling you will find.

Grip strength training is paramount to good fighting ability, so I do alot of weighted pullups while holding a towel, builds an almost unbreakable lapel grip.

What you cant see in my stills with the tire is how explosive the movement is, this is why throwing the tire is so beneficial as well.

I'm off to work, thank you for your grace.

 

[MJS]

If you're looking for something that is simple, there is always Krav Maga. Now, perhaps that is not something that you'd enjoy, but fact remains its a style that puts emphasis on the KISS principle.

 

[Flying Crane]

as for the attributes question, I believe in training for explosive strength. To do a bench press means virtually nothing to me. To do a timed bench press. i.e how explosively can I go from chest to top position is more applicable. Squatting? Who cares! How high can I jump? That is what is important, that equates to kick momentum and thus destructive force.

The best workout I have ever done besides randori? Working my garden bed over with an old fashioned high wheeled hand plow. The perfect simulation of the stresses of stand up grappling you will find.

Grip strength training is paramount to good fighting ability, so I do alot of weighted pullups while holding a towel, builds an almost unbreakable lapel grip.

What you cant see in my stills with the tire is how explosive the movement is, this is why throwing the tire is so beneficial as well.

I'm off to work, thank you for your grace.

well there is some truth in what you say. However, I did look at your video. If that is you in the video, then in my opinion, you are placing far too much importance on physique. I imagine you must train for hours on end to maintain a physique like that. Why not reduce the time you spend on your physique, and spend that time training in learning and developing skill in a solid martial system? I am sure you could cut your strength training time down to 25% of what you currently do, and that would still maintain a very healthy and athletic physique without becoming overly developed. And that would dramatically increase the time you have to learn a viable martial art.

 

[Cryozombie]

2) Not to be insultive to the arts you have mentioned, but I feel their unarmed combat techniques are too complex to be effective under combat conditions,

LOL.

Based on what? A few youtube videos of KATA? Haha. Damn, all those fights I got in when I was bouncing I must have actually LOST cuz my technique was too complex. In fact, I'm probably DEAD right now, and don't realize it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

3 types of fights

The one where you know something and the other guy doesn't.(he's inexperienced)
The one where you both know something, but it's different.
The one where you both know the same thing.

The first is the most common encounter, and nothing fancy is needed.
The second is an art-vs-art thing. Ie: I know Arnis, you know KungFu.
The third is the rarest, where we both train in the same art, and that is where the "fancy and complex" comes into play.

Also, there is a difference between being good at a competitive sport, and good at a life or death fight. Point fighting techniques aren't going to cut it when the other guy doesn't stop or pulls a weapon. Neither is Pro-Fighting so called "NHB" stuff. Guy might dominate in the cage, but how good is that in a 5 on 1 weapon fight?

Books, videos are good references, but never a substitute for a qualified teacher. In my experience, most people saying "I don't need that stuff" fail to understand what "that stuff' really is, especially when they don't have any firsthand experience.

Case in point. Sword work. Who needs that old stuff? Who uses a sword today?
Then again, a machete is $10 at Walmart, and common weapon in some areas.

Food for thought.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

The thing about technique creating itself is what I was talking about when I said some things I learned along the way "felt right" to me and worked better for me.

Well what I meant was openings and just practicing Kihon(basics) so much you get the "feel" and can just put any technique in. If you have seen Hatsumi's movements you will see how free flowing he is and how the techniques create themselves.

An example is osoto gari. From the standard mutual grips, I could never hit this throw. By way of instinct and chance, I found if I did a left sided osoto from a right lapel grip, initiating it by pulling hard to me and immediately stutter stepping into the opponent while "swimming my left arm over like a D-lineman, I could nail a hard osoto. This osoto was not technically correct but it worked for me most times.

There is an old training saying "IF THE TECHNIQUE DOES NOT WORK IT IS YOU AND NOT THE TECHNIQUE"
Osoto Gari is one of the easiest moves to perform in Judo. Kids do it all the time when they are playing around and don't know Judo. But ok you could not pull it off I had a hard time with Ganseki nage but it was ME not the technique that was complex. I made the technique more complicated and when I went over the drills I found it easier and easier.

Grappling is like this as well, I personally feel less stable mounted on someone than I do in kata gatame or kesa, so when I roll BJJ I take these two if I can get them, which confuses many BJJ players cause it is not a sidemount to standard. Kesa and kata gatame just feel right to me and I can use them alot better than a mount so I internalize them and modify it to BJJ style grappling.

Kesa Gatame looks to be a sidemount postion same as Kata Gatame I don't think you could apply them on a full mount but I guess anything is possible.

So maybe you are thinking the technique is more complicated then it really is?

 

[morph4me]

LOL.

Based on what? A few youtube videos of KATA? Haha. Damn, all those fights I got in when I was bouncing I must have actually LOST cuz my technique was too complex. In fact, I'm probably DEAD right now, and don't realize it.

Damn, I hate when that happens :lfao:

 

[MarkBarlow]

Why is anyone (myself included) wasting their time on this? We have a mish-mash martial art with absolutely no true connection to existing arts which will probably never be seen by anyone not related to this gentleman. I'll admit the whole nonsensical concept has the appeal of a train wreck but sooner or later we need to look away. Kug Maky Tuna Roll is basically the Tinkerbell of martial arts. If we don't believe in it or pay attention to it, it sputters out and dies. Isn't it time to put Tink out of our misery? Ignore it and it goes away.

 

[Bester]

Bester, thank you for the 20ish comment. Since I am nearly 38 years young, I will put this down as your first official compliment directed towards me.

You're welcome.