Krav Maga Fighters in MMA

[LoneRider]

I've heard of Moti Horenstein and I wonder if there have ever been any other Krav Maga fighters in Mixed Martial Arts promotions? I know some Krav techniques (eye gouges, small joint control, and other things) aren't sanctioned in MMA matches, but as a fledgling (disclaimer) Kravist I will definitely say if a Krav Maga fighter were to attain success in any major MMA promotion it could have some fairly interesting side effects for Krav Maga.

One major side effect would likely be that interest in Krav Maga, already high enough since its value as a practical self defense system is self evident, would increase. It might, unfortunately, cause some schools to get too wrapped around the axle about producing the next MMA champ and push it away from its practical defense roots.

Any other opinions on the subject?

 

[MJS]

I believe Sam Sade, who, IIRC, is or was part of the KMWW group, has done some MMA events. Other than that, I have no idea. I'm wondering though, as you already said, if this is something that the Krav Maga schools out there already, would want to do. I know that many include ground fighting, but I dont know if they're doing it to groom any potential MMA fighters or an interest in MMA, amongst their students. I'd say they're doing it to simply keep up with the times. I mean, given the fact that MMA is very popular, better to be prepared for a grappling attack, than not be, and wish you were.

 

[Spork3245]

http://www.krav-maga.pl/news_2010/walka_mma/index_en.html

All of Krzysztof's guys are beasts... They trained this fighter with a special MMA curriculum, so he would not be DQ'd in the match.
It's hard for a true Kravist to go into the MMA, as we tend to either get disqualifed due to the way we train and where we train to instinctively hit. However, it can be done with modifications being made to the training itself.

 

[Tez3]

MMA fights are competitions, whether people want to compete depends on themselves more than their style. It's what it says it is on the tin, mixed martial arts, it doesn't 'prove' the effectiveness of any one style it proves the effectiveness of the person's fighting and tactical skills to win a competition.

It's not hard for anyone from any style to go into an MMA competition, all styles need adapting and molding into something that can be used for a specific purpose ie to win the bout. there's more to it anyway than just fighting, you have to have tactics to fight your opponent and the training to fight them.

and yes MMA fighters can defend themselves outside in case that was coming up next, they aren't stuck in the 'referee and rules' mindset outside the cage/ring so there's no need for any martial artist to get stuck in the no rules mindset in the cage/ring.

 

[Spork3245]

MMA fights are competitions, whether people want to compete depends on themselves more than their style. It's what it says it is on the tin, mixed martial arts, it doesn't 'prove' the effectiveness of any one style it proves the effectiveness of the person's fighting and tactical skills to win a competition.

It's not hard for anyone from any style to go into an MMA competition, all styles need adapting and molding into something that can be used for a specific purpose ie to win the bout. there's more to it anyway than just fighting, you have to have tactics to fight your opponent and the training to fight them.

and yes MMA fighters can defend themselves outside in case that was coming up next, they aren't stuck in the 'referee and rules' mindset outside the cage/ring so there's no need for any martial artist to get stuck in the no rules mindset in the cage/ring.

When you've trained for 5-10 years to defend a punch by immediately kicking to the groin, or parrying and round-house kicking a knee - Yes, the "style" does matter as something called "muscle memory" presents itself. Krav Maga is ment to be reactive and instinctive, you do things without "needing to think about it", that's the entire point of the system. To bring it to an competitive match requires "re-wiring" as to where you'd strike with your combatives, as last time I checked, doing either of the things I mentioned would get you a DQ.
To basically say that "The way you train doesn't matter" is just flat-out wrong and naive.

 

[Tez3]

When you've trained for 5-10 years to defend a punch by immediately kicking to the groin, or parrying and round-house kicking a knee - Yes, the "style" does matter as something called "muscle memory" presents itself. Krav Maga is ment to be reactive and instinctive, you do things without "needing to think about it", that's the entire point of the system. To bring it to an competitive match requires "re-wiring" as to where you'd strike with your combatives, as last time I checked, doing either of the things I mentioned would get you a DQ.
To basically say that "The way you train doesn't matter" is just flat-out wrong and naive.

I've trained for 20 years to defend a punch by kicking to the groin etc etc and yes I can still do MMA, I've also got something called a brain. I said everyone needs to train to do MMA as they would with any competition so don't go getting so high and mighty and know it all. Try reading posts before posting to try and sound superior.

How do you think martial artists from other styles manage?

 

[Tez3]

Ok back from training so a more involved answer. In our martial arts club the adults do MMA, we've been doing it a long time, we promote fights, look up Michael Bisping's record and you'll find his pro debut on our show. We are a military club so have students from many different backgrounds including Krav Maga. We have a MMA fight team, they fight pro, semi and amateur rules, we have some who also fight on kickboxing bouts both K1 and 'shiny pants', we have army boxers. Now, when an MMA fighter is in a boxing bout he doesn't suddenly start doing take downs, he doesn't start kicking away because of 'muscle memory'. The boxers and kickboxers don't forget they can do takedowns in MMA fights because it's all muscle memory.
On different promotions there are different rules, some allow ankle locks some don't yet all the fighters can remember what the rules are, the same in kickboxing , spinning back fists can be allowed or not, again they don't forget. We train all our fighters with headshots but some fight amateur where's there no head shots yet they don't forget and suddenly start striking their opponents head.
So, it's not difficult to fight in a competition and remember the rules, so please don't give me this 'naive' stuff, I do RBSD (just as nasty as KM btw you don't do anything a lot of others don't), karate, BJJ, MT and MMA and yet I and everyone I train with can put the right move to the right situation. All martial arts are reactive and instinctive, no point in doing them if they don't become that way Krav Maga is no different from other styles. We have a Para who's boxing, kick boxing, MMA and a Krav Maga instructor, he doesn't find it hard to separate what he does.
There's no reason why a Krav Maga student should find fighting MMA, as long as he trains properly, any harder than any other martial artist.

 

[MJS]

I would say that some 're-wiring' is necessary. I'll refer back to the Fight Quest Krav Maga and Kajukenbo episodes, both in which Jimmy and Doug, both resorted to what they've been doing for years...going to the ground. Both also admitted that they were doing it, and it was a hard habit to break, given the fact that they've been training in a different 'art.'

 

[Tez3]

I would say that some 're-wiring' is necessary. I'll refer back to the Fight Quest Krav Maga and Kajukenbo episodes, both in which Jimmy and Doug, both resorted to what they've been doing for years...going to the ground. Both also admitted that they were doing it, and it was a hard habit to break, given the fact that they've been training in a different 'art.'

I've never heard of this or them but I don't seen anything wrong with doing what you've always done if it works, an MMA fight doesn't have to be a certain time standing, a certain time on the ground, I've seen fights that didn't go to ground at all or were all on the ground. It's what works for you. Just because there's a myriad of techniques avaiable doens't mean you have to use them all in your fight.
You don't have to be 're-wired' to fight MMA, you stick to your strengths of course and work on the rest but my point is that you don't mindlessly fight and start doing things that are against the rules.
How do Krav maga people train? By actually eye gouging or kneeing to the groin or can they pull their punches?

It's not re-wiring, it's training for a competition

 

[MJS]

I've never heard of this or them but I don't seen anything wrong with doing what you've always done if it works, an MMA fight doesn't have to be a certain time standing, a certain time on the ground, I've seen fights that didn't go to ground at all or were all on the ground. It's what works for you. Just because there's a myriad of techniques avaiable doens't mean you have to use them all in your fight.
You don't have to be 're-wired' to fight MMA, you stick to your strengths of course and work on the rest but my point is that you don't mindlessly fight and start doing things that are against the rules.
How do Krav maga people train? By actually eye gouging or kneeing to the groin or can they pull their punches?

It's not re-wiring, it's training for a competition

Krav Maga
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb2TUDpkln4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhNmwf3e8Vk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsHrctN1O0&feature=related

These are 3 of 6 Krav Maga Fight Quest clips. You could watch more if you'd like. Watch the 3rd clip. Around the 4:40 mark, you hear Doug make the comment I was talking about.

Looks like the Kaju clips aren't on youtube anymore, but I do recall Doug making similar comments. Basically, the point that Spork and I are trying to make is that when something becomes muscle memory, while its not impossible to break that habit, it will require some time.

 

[Tez3]

Krav Maga
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb2TUDpkln4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhNmwf3e8Vk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsHrctN1O0&feature=related

These are 3 of 6 Krav Maga Fight Quest clips. You could watch more if you'd like. Watch the 3rd clip. Around the 4:40 mark, you hear Doug make the comment I was talking about.

Looks like the Kaju clips aren't on youtube anymore, but I do recall Doug making similar comments. Basically, the point that Spork and I are trying to make is that when something becomes muscle memory, while its not impossible to break that habit, it will require some time.

Spork was intimating that I said the way you train wasn't important, I wasn't saying that at all, I was saying that one has control over the way one fights and pointing out how many people with different styles including KM can fight MMA if they wish.

 

[MJS]

Spork was intimating that I said the way you train wasn't important, I wasn't saying that at all, I was saying that one has control over the way one fights and pointing out how many people with different styles including KM can fight MMA if they wish.

I took his posts this way: the first post read to me, that a Krav student was successful in the MMA ring, however, he (the fighter in question) trained with a specific ruleset, different from KM.

I read his 2nd post as: a KM student is capable of fighting MMA, however, much like the first post, the student will need to train differently.

 

[Tez3]

I took his posts this way: the first post read to me, that a Krav student was successful in the MMA ring, however, he (the fighter in question) trained with a specific ruleset, different from KM.

I read his 2nd post as: a KM student is capable of fighting MMA, however, much like the first post, the student will need to train differently.

and you missed out the one where he called me wrong and naive lol. It not 're -wiring' as much as training for a competition, you have to train for any competition'.

 

[MJS]

and you missed out the one where he called me wrong and naive lol. It not 're -wiring' as much as training for a competition, you have to train for any competition'.

Yup, I saw it. I think, in a round-about way, we're all on the same page, for the most part, give or take. I think the wording may be different, yet we're all saying the same thing.

 

[K831]

When you've trained for 5-10 years to defend a punch by immediately kicking to the groin, or parrying and round-house kicking a knee - Yes, the "style" does matter as something called "muscle memory" presents itself. Krav Maga is ment to be reactive and instinctive, you do things without "needing to think about it", that's the entire point of the system. To bring it to an competitive match requires "re-wiring" as to where you'd strike with your combatives, as last time I checked, doing either of the things I mentioned would get you a DQ.
To basically say that "The way you train doesn't matter" is just flat-out wrong and naive.

Too true.