Knuckle Pushups/Makiwara

[Brandon Fisher]

That 'theory' is incorrect. There are dojo/sensei here in Okinawa that use dit da jow (or other equivelent thereof) before and after training kotekitai and makiwara.
As far as some individuals being more genetically predisposed to such training, that goes without saying. We are all unique individuals with varying strengths and weaknesses.
The one thing all of us should keep in mind when training with such tools, is to train smarter, not harder. Moderation, consistancy, time, and rest are key when performing such exercises.

Being a Shorin Ryu practioner and training the makiwara like I was taught from people who were Okinawan or trained in Okinawa I have not had the issues that others who train with the makiwara differently have had. Slow and consistent wins the race here. My hands are very strong and hard but and I do have some signs of makiwara training on my hands but not extreme.

I can't wait to get to Okinawa in March, 2010 and experience the training first hand.

 

[ddm69]

Ouch... Knuckle pushups hurt. I would rather be punching a wooden wall or be doing finger-tip pushups.

 

[Uchinanchu]

Being a Shorin Ryu practioner and training the makiwara like I was taught from people who were Okinawan or trained in Okinawa I have not had the issues that others who train with the makiwara differently have had. Slow and consistent wins the race here. My hands are very strong and hard but and I do have some signs of makiwara training on my hands but not extreme.

I can't wait to get to Okinawa in March, 2010 and experience the training first hand.

Coming for a visit?! Good for you! If you are in or around Okinawa city, give me a buzz and maybe we can get together for some training and 'compare notes' on our respective systems. It's always nice to share information and make new friends!

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Coming for a visit?! Good for you! If you are in or around Okinawa city, give me a buzz and maybe we can get together for some training and 'compare notes' on our respective systems. It's always nice to share information and make new friends!

Sounds good we are actually staying in Okinawa City I believe. Might be the Hamagawa Lodge (??) not sure though but I know thats where Sensei was trying to book.

 

[xfighter88]

the training you mention as well as other bone hardening exercises are important. They make sure that your wrists are strong (knuckle Pushups). They keep your hands from breaking if you punch and catch an elbow or forehead. They are also extremely important if you enjoy doing breaking demonstrations.

So does this mean you should do 100 knuckle pushups and start punching, chopping, hammering and elbowing cinderblocks? Absolutly not! You need to train up to that very slowly. I have been working at it for about 5 years and I jsut now am starting to hit a cinder block with a telephone book on it with a towel over the top of that. Even then I hit it softly lots of times. I don't drill into the thing 20 times. I strike it lightly 100 times. If your bones hurt after a training session you have been hitting too hard.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Putting a phone book on the block will make it more difficult to break but simulates the human body better with muscle around bone. It will also show the penetration of the strike but still doesn't protect your hand much.

 

[xfighter88]

Putting a phone book on the block will make it more difficult to break but simulates the human body better with muscle around bone. It will also show the penetration of the strike but still doesn't protect your hand much.

I do the phone book thing when I am conditioning not when I am breaking.

If I am breaking blocks in my basement for fun and practice though I will put a folded towel on the blocks so that if I mess up It doesn't hurt too bad. At testing and demos I never use the soft stuff on top.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I do the phone book thing when I am conditioning not when I am breaking.

If I am breaking blocks in my basement for fun and practice though I will put a folded towel on the blocks so that if I mess up It doesn't hurt too bad. At testing and demos I never use the soft stuff on top.

Take a Indy metro phone book and wrap it in duct tape and see how soft it is. In all honesty it shows how much pentration of the strike you have.

 

[ChingChuan]

I'm not yet a doctor but I could suggest a few things why a doctor might think that knuckle pushups could be damaging.

1) The pressure (weight of your body) is transferred to a very small area (your knuckles), resulting in a greater force (F=M*a). This might cause damage because those tissues aren't meant to withstand such pressures. Also, the 'force' caused by the push-up (especially when you're not really used to them - beginners!) lasts much longer than the force caused by hitting a target.
2) There might be additional damage done to the tendons and muscles of the wrist. If you don't do the push ups correctly, you might overstretch / tear things.

We don't really use them in our training. Sometimes our instructor has us do them but that's more to check whether we're doing our push ups the correct way...

I'm not really a fan of hardening exercises. We do have an exercise in which you (gently!) hit your forearms against someone else's and I hate it - somehow, they always manage to hit on a nerve. I think that we ought to be a bit more careful with our bodies - you don't need to have 'hardened' limbs in order to succesfully defend yourself against an attacker... But that's my personal opinion.

 

[zDom]

I'm not yet a doctor but I could suggest a few things why a doctor might think that knuckle pushups could be damaging.

1) The pressure (weight of your body) is transferred to a very small area (your knuckles), resulting in a greater force (F=M*a). This might cause damage because those tissues aren't meant to withstand such pressures. Also, the 'force' caused by the push-up (especially when you're not really used to them - beginners!) lasts much longer than the force caused by hitting a target.
2) There might be additional damage done to the tendons and muscles of the wrist. If you don't do the push ups correctly, you might overstretch / tear things.

We don't really use them in our training. Sometimes our instructor has us do them but that's more to check whether we're doing our push ups the correct way...

I'm not really a fan of hardening exercises. We do have an exercise in which you (gently!) hit your forearms against someone else's and I hate it - somehow, they always manage to hit on a nerve. I think that we ought to be a bit more careful with our bodies - you don't need to have 'hardened' limbs in order to succesfully defend yourself against an attacker... But that's my personal opinion.

(my bolding above)

If you want to be able to defend yourself without doing as much damage to your striking limbs as to your attacker, you probably DO want to prepare.

All of strengthening/conditioning exercises work by starting slow and easy and working up to more stress/intensity.

But if you go from ZERO (no training at all for wrists/knuckles) to FULL POWER STRIKE (in self defense situation), plan on a trip to the emergency room to address a broken and/or sprained wrist and/or hand.

The other day I was recommending to one of our lower belt girls in hapkido for wrist strength that she should start with "planking" (not pushups!) and if that hurt her knuckles too much, start with a "girl pushup" planking position on knuckles, and if that got easy, one knee down and the other straight




and for metacarpal thickening, higher repetitions of soft striking on our padded poles.