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Bob Hubbard

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Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
What are you, nuts? That is a high school, for crying out loud. Not kumite. We live in a law abiding society. When high schoolers fight, they get disciplined. The incident should be reported and the school officials should deal with it. What is all this thing about honor and name stuff? It is insane! The kid broke school regulations and the matter is to be handled as such. You people are making a drama out of it. Have we forgotten that there are standard procedures to deal with such daily incidents?

re nuts - yup. :)
re the rest of your post - You are mostly right...rules were broken, rules should be enforced. Unfortunately, today, at least in the US, the risk of a little confrontation is not a week off and a black eye, its a pinewood box and permanent dirt nap.

So, where rules are broken, discipline. I believe the point we were making wasn't that he hadn't broken rules, but that by reacting differently he might have avoided it becoming physical in the first place.

Personally, I have no problem with fighting, or dying for that matter...but please, let both be over something that really counts, not some braindead dipshit whose career prospects are limited to being the 'bottom' in prison because he has delusions of evolving and warped fantasies about what my mother can do with a shopvac or my sister with the football team.

Maybe we take it seriously because we see it as our role of teachers or fellow martial artists to share some advice to help someone out of future issues. That and we'd hate to read in a paper that a simple 'highschool incident' led to someone we know being taken out in a bodybag.

:asian:
 
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RyuShiKan

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Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
What are you, nuts?

Just a piece of friendly advicewhen you make statements like that you wont do anything but make people think you are either a Troll or a Thread Cop
(A Thread Cop is someone that jumps into the middle of a thread and posts how certain aspects of threads are ridiculous and makes comments like Don't you people have anything more meaningful happening in your lives? etc.In form they appear not to be Trolls but in essence they often turn out to be. )


Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
That is a high school, for crying out loud. Not kumite. We live in a law abiding society. When high schoolers fight, they get disciplined. The incident should be reported and the school officials should deal with it. What is all this thing about honor and name stuff? It is insane! The kid broke school regulations and the matter is to be handled as such. You people are making a drama out of it. Have we forgotten that there are standard procedures to deal with such daily incidents?


I think if you take the time to re-read this thread more carefully you will find it was actually the two High School Kids were the ones that brought the whole Honor thing into this topic. The other members were merely schooling them on what they believe to be Honor
 

Johnathan Napalm

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Heck, I just thought people are making mountain out of mole hill there with a simple case of school yard brawl that goes on daily in schools around the world. Schools have established procedures to deal with this. It is a simple case of disciplinary issue.
 
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RyuShiKan

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Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Heck, I just thought people are making mountain out of mole hill there with a simple case of school yard brawl that goes on daily in schools around the world. Schools have established procedures to deal with this. It is a simple case of disciplinary issue.


Their procedures dont seem to be working since this kind of thing continues.and most likely will for a very long time.

Having said thatthe reasons for engaging in a fight as stated by the two high school students in this thread is the exact reason why I dont teach young kids.
They dont have the maturity to understand when and when not use violence as a solution. (Granted most adults dont either but they dont have the excuse of being too young to know better)
 

Bob Hubbard

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Who am I to argue with my seniors in the arts, or the founders of the arts? :)

" The only reason men fight is because they are insecure; one man needs to prove that he is better or stronger than another. The man who is secure within himself has no need to prove anything with force, so he can walk away from a fight with dignity and pride. He is the true martial artist-a man so strong inside that he has no need to demostrate power.
The point of achieving proficiency in any martial art is to be able to walk away from a fight rather than to win it. But you will walk with shoulders erect, pride in your bearing, knowing inside what the outcome of the battle would have been had you wished to precipitate it. And the attitude of confidence will be communicated to your antagonist, who will realize that he narrowly escaped defeat. If you have nothing to prove, you have no need to fight."
Ed Parker

The ultimate aim of karate lies not in victory or defeat but in the perfection of the character of its participants."
-Gichin Funakoshi, founder of shotokan karate

"The Way of the Warrior has been misunderstood as a means to kill and destroy others. Those who seek competition are making a grave mistake. To smash, injure, or destroy is the worst sin a human being can commit. The real Way of a Warrior is to prevent slaughter - it is the Art of Peace, the power of love."
-Morihei Ueshiba
 

Johnathan Napalm

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Since boys will be boys, some one will open their mouths too wide and fists will fly. Schools need to be more vigilant in enforcing discipline.

It is a serious concern if kids are taught martial art without being instilled the discipline regarding when force is justifiable.

I can appreciate the experienced members here are willing to take the time to educate the youngsters. Hopefully they listen and learn.

My sarcastic nature got the better of me in my mouthing off earlier. I just thought why even bother to go on an extensive discussion on honor and so forth, with a simple disciplinary case. May be if parents are less like yours truly , and be more like you all, their kids will be better off.
 

Zepp

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Wow this thread's become a pretty hot one. For the sake of brevity, let me just say that I agree with everything Kaith Rustaz has said, and I disagree with everything Judo-Kid has said.

And Kenpo-Wolf, I agree with you too, for the most part. But I also think kids need a chance to "live and learn."

Now the important questions: How's your eye doing muayThaiPerson? Has that bully left you alone now? (Assuming you haven't lost interest in this thread yet.)
 
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RyuShiKan

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Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
May be if parents are less like yours truly , and be more like you all, their kids will be better off.

My parents packed my sorry *** off to Catholic school for 13 years (K-12).
If there was a fight in my school the Jesuits saw to it that is was a fair fight and made the two troublemakers put the gloves on and bash the crap out of each other. I am not sure if they still allow students to do that in this touchy feely day in age though. I might also add that violent outbursts (fights and so on) were extremely uncommon too. Which is odd, especially since we had no chicks at our school and the .er..uh frustration factor was rather high.
Great things were learned in those "boxing" sessions.
One important lesson learned was the tough guys werent as tough as they thought they were. Especially since it is difficult to talk smack with the headgear on. I think people realized that anyone can win on any given day.

When I was a Freshman in HS I got into with some guy about something stupid, we put the gloves on and banged away at each other until both of us were too tired to go on.
Oddly enough we are best friends to this day.more like brothers really.
Every time I get a Hagen Das in the round container I am always reminded of him since he is part owner of that container company.
Life is weird.
 

Johnathan Napalm

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Haha :) . That is indeed a good story! I do believe that fair fights build character. Getting it all out and then hold no grudges afterward. I really think that kids need to be instilled a sense of honor and fair fight. Sadly, these days, the education system cares more about not hurting self-esteem instead of building character. What happened to strong character brings strong self esteem?
 

Matt Stone

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Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Haha :) . That is indeed a good story! I do believe that fair fights build character. Getting it all out and then hold no grudges afterward. I really think that kids need to be instilled a sense of honor and fair fight. Sadly, these days, the education system cares more about not hurting self-esteem instead of building character. What happened to strong character brings strong self esteem?

What happened to strong character? In a society where personal responsibility doesn't exist, and anyone can blame anyone or anything else for whatever troubles may exist in their lives, the development of character dies.

Anymore, the only thing that develops character is experience, something both MTP and JK are lacking in due to their age (and no fault of their own).
 
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RyuShiKan

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Where are Honor and Morality in the US????

I look at the Jerry Springer show and have a pretty good idea where they went.straight down the crapper.
 
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chufeng

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If there was a fight in my school the Jesuits saw to it that is was a fair fight and made the two troublemakers put the gloves on and bash the crap out of each other.
RyuShiKan,

My school was the same way...and in high-school, rather than boxing, it was wrestling...

But I remember vividly the days where the men in dark robes would declare it time to go to the attic of the church...boxing gloves (the old rust colored musty ones) would be applied and then differences were settled.

My father used the same strategy with me and my older brother...
I always lost those matches...

My younger brothers were treated the same way...but the twisted f***s thought it was fun...so they started boxing.


Thanks for bringing back fond (???) memories...

:asian:
chufeng
 
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sweeper

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Johnathan Napalm

I don't know what your HS days were like, but "reporting" a fight to the administration realy doesn't do much more than piss everyone off (including some faculty) because you "tateled" on someone in alot of schools.

JK if you have the art of war than do you recal where it was said that taking a state intact is superior to destroying it? or that the acme of skill is not winning 100 out of 100 battles but rather to subdue the enemy without fighting? How about the main strategy in war should be to attack your opponant's strategy?

This is all about offensive strategy, the conservation of energy and maximising profit, look at what your opponant is trying to achive and make that imposable.. By sun tzu's standards, in a sence wars come about when polotics fail, it is not something to your advantage because of the expense and the risk, that is to say it isn't profitable..

Now I'm not saying fighting's bad, I'm just saying don't make it into something it's not. And always be aware of exactly what you are doing, know the risks involved and the posable consequences involved (look at probably and posable outcomes). I mean if you arne't going to gain anything by kicking the **** out of someone than deal with it some othe way because there is always at least a little risk involved.

And just a note, JK when you are speaking of honor you aren't realy just speaking of honor, you are mixing your own ego in with it. That is to say people's view of you probably isn't going to change much at all if you win, loose, or walk away from a fight, the only thing that might change is your view of yourself. Ultimately the whole conflict is one of a psychological nature. You don't truely deffend your self because ingaging in violence puts you at risk (saffest thing even when someone throws a punch is to run like hell(provided you can move fast enough to make them give up chasing you)). And the vast majority of times there is an escalation on both sides (no matter who strikes first) you "exchange" words before hand it isn't just the other guy mouthing off than hitting you it goes back and fourth first. So you choose not to diffuse the thret (if you can call it that) in an early stage and than desided the only way out is a fight. Back to sun tzu, Recal the part where somthing's writen about how a genneral plans? How a battle won is stacked to win and a battle lost is stacked to loose (something like "a victorious army is like a hundred wight stacked against a grain and a deafeated army a grain against a hundred weight)? If you just fight someone you aren't stacking anything and it's up in the air, you pointed out the problems with fighting more than one attacker, that's just an example of how something could go wrong..

From your comments it seems like you are "deffending" your actions, like you feal that others are attacking you here, I don't think that's the direct intent but rather trying to show you that the issue isn't as simple as you seem to propose and there are other ways to deal with it.
 
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RyuShiKan

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Another great read is a guy called "Chuang Dz".............brilliant stuff.

dao ke dao, fei chang dao

What looks like the way couldnt be the way because it only appears to be the way
 
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chufeng

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For some really profound stuff...look up Reverend Wen Fu Fing...

:asian:
chufeng
 
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sweeper

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I just braught up sun tzu because judo kid mentioned an intrest.
 
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J-kid

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You know how i met my best friend? well since you proble dont(hope not) i met him by first fighting him. I kicked his butt when we where Youngesters and we have been best friends since we where 5.
 
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MartialArtist

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Originally posted by Judo-kid
You know how i met my best friend? well since you proble dont(hope not) i met him by first fighting him. I kicked his butt when we where Youngesters and we have been best friends since we where 5.
That's a rare and unusual thing that happens in real life unfortunately.
 

swiftpete

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it's a nice idea saying that you should've been the bigger man, walked away etc etc but sometimes its unavoidable and if some chump wants to fight and is determined to do it then you will just get hit if you don't defend yourself.
i am definitely not the sort of person that would start a fight but i've had people start on me before for no reason, i once got headbutted by someone for no reason at all that stopped me as i was walking down a corridor. in that situation how do u walk away?? i had to fight or just stand and accept being hit.
So while i agree that you should try your best to talk your way out of it and all that if possible, sometimes its just not possible as there are a hell of a lot of complete chumps out there desperate to prove something.


The friend who shouted that you were a martial artist is an idiot though, thats just asking for trouble. Ah well at least you knocked him out not the other way round. He'll probably think twice about starting on you again. And hopefully if word gets round then the other idiots at your place might think twice too about starting on you.
Good luck. And at least you can have some faith in your knee in future!
 

47MartialMan

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I can post that he shouldnt have spoke or cursed back and avoided the fight. But, hey, I didnt do that either when I was in school. My senior year in high school, lunch time was spent ducking in the library so that I wont get into trouble and lose study time needed for grades to pass/graduate.


With age and maturity, it is simple to tell one of much junior, on what they should have or should not have done. But looking back, as a youngster, many of us (or I) perhaps did the same. Per peer pressure and back talk.
 
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