Knight Fights

[Steve]

Whose watching this show? Anyone on here know some of the participants? Anyone compete in similar venues? Looks like a blast.

Knight Fight Full Episodes, Video & More | HISTORY

 

[CB Jones]

My son likes it.

Just because of the melee of it all.

 

[lklawson]

There is almost nothing about it which is historically accurate. It's just a bunch of people bashing at each other.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Steve]

There is almost nothing about it which is historically accurate. It's just a bunch of people bashing at each other.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Curious if someone with skill could do well .

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Oh god i read that as knife fights, that definitely changed the tone of this thread in my head.


And i have not, if it ever shows itself on my TV i might give a episode a watch. I personally prefer more realistic depictions of weapon fighting how ever.

 

[Steve]

If you haven't seen it, it's on the History Channel in the USA, and they offer full episodes online, with some caveats. The format of the show is three stages, where they progressively thin the group. In the first stage, there are 6 fighters in a free for all melee. Following this round, two of the competitors are eliminated. The remaining four are teamed up, and they do a two-on-two, team round. The winning team advances to a final "duel" round, where one is declared the winner. That person then advances to the end of the season show where all of the winners from each individual episode compete to be the grand champion.

The rules are pretty straightforward. All weapons are blunted. No stabbing is allowed, and no hitting an opponent who is down. I think they also prohibit groin shots, but I'm not sure about that. Otherwise, they just sort of go for it.

They don't seem very skilled to me, but as a lay person, it's hard to really tell. Some questions do come to mind. If they aren't skilled, how would a skilled competitor fare? Why aren't there any skilled competitors on the show? What do you guys think of the format?

 

[pgsmith]

They don't seem very skilled to me, but as a lay person, it's hard to really tell. Some questions do come to mind. If they aren't skilled, how would a skilled competitor fare?

The big question there is "skilled at what?"

I can't see the video from work, but from the pictures it looks like SCA heavy fighting except with blunt steel instead of rattan. I imagine the "experts" performing in the show are probably SCA fighters.

If you are talking about experienced HEMA practitioners, they probably wouldn't fare well since they practice actual historical fighting, and there's nothing historical about people in full plate armor standing around whaling on each other, although I have heard that this was occasionally done at festivals as entertainment.

 

[Steve]

The big question there is "skilled at what?"

I can't see the video from work, but from the pictures it looks like SCA heavy fighting except with blunt steel instead of rattan. I imagine the "experts" performing in the show are probably SCA fighters.

If you are talking about experienced HEMA practitioners, they probably wouldn't fare well since they practice actual historical fighting, and there's nothing historical about people in full plate armor standing around whaling on each other, although I have heard that this was occasionally done at festivals as entertainment.

Just to recap, all I've seen so far is are a few very general statements that there is almost nothing historically accurate about it, and that they're just bashing each other. So, if you put a guy in plate (or chain or whatever) and give them their choice of weapon (big, small, two handed or one, shield or not), why wouldn't a skilled person do well? 'Skilled at what?' is a great question. So???

To be clear, this is a competition, so I think your last line is a little funny. Let's presume this is sport. At the very least, it's sport today. If they did it at festivals as entertainment... great. Are you guys suggesting that there is no room for skill in this?

 

[CB Jones]

They don't seem very skilled to me, but as a lay person, it's hard to really tell. Some questions do come to mind. If they aren't skilled, how would a skilled competitor fare?

I dunno....seems like the way they fight would be pretty characteristic of real medievil combat. With that much heavy armor....its just a full on melee fight.

It looks like it takes lots of strength, stamina, and toughness. It's a rough.

 

[Steve]

I dunno....seems like the way they fight would be pretty characteristic of real medievil combat. With that much heavy armor....its just a full on melee fight.

It looks like it takes lots of strength, stamina, and toughness. It's a rough.

Totally. The guys who don't get completely gassed seem to do very well. But there were strikes that seemed to be felt through the plate, particularly to the legs.

The standing grappling seemed to be helpful. I've seen many trips, and even a few hip tosses. Also a lot of reversals due to just solid footwork and body awareness.

Strategy seems to be a component, as well. Guys who don't get wrapped up, but instead get behind someone who's tied up, and then pounds them from the back, seem to do well.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Totally. The guys who don't get completely gassed seem to do very well. But there were strikes that seemed to be felt through the plate, particularly to the legs.

So...cardio is important in a fight? who knew?

 

[CB Jones]

A few of the fights.....just big straight right hands with the gauntlets or the weapon's hand guards seem pretty effective

 

[drop bear]

If you haven't seen it, it's on the History Channel in the USA, and they offer full episodes online, with some caveats. The format of the show is three stages, where they progressively thin the group. In the first stage, there are 6 fighters in a free for all melee. Following this round, two of the competitors are eliminated. The remaining four are teamed up, and they do a two-on-two, team round. The winning team advances to a final "duel" round, where one is declared the winner. That person then advances to the end of the season show where all of the winners from each individual episode compete to be the grand champion.

The rules are pretty straightforward. All weapons are blunted. No stabbing is allowed, and no hitting an opponent who is down. I think they also prohibit groin shots, but I'm not sure about that. Otherwise, they just sort of go for it.

They don't seem very skilled to me, but as a lay person, it's hard to really tell. Some questions do come to mind. If they aren't skilled, how would a skilled competitor fare? Why aren't there any skilled competitors on the show? What do you guys think of the format?

There is as usual with this a different sort of skilled.

 

[Steve]

There is as usual with this a different sort of skilled.

Totally. Like what?

 

[pgsmith]

To be clear, this is a competition, so I think your last line is a little funny. Let's presume this is sport. At the very least, it's sport today. If they did it at festivals as entertainment... great. Are you guys suggesting that there is no room for skill in this?

Not suggesting they aren't skilled. My eldest son does SCA heavy combat, and he has had to train pretty hard to get good at it. That's why I was asking the question "skilled at what?" Many people look at this and say "look, historical fighting!" but it isn't. The only time you had fighting such as that was at festivals when they held tournaments to entertain the gentry, so not much time and effort was expended in learning to hit each other in full plate. Traditionally, full plate was worn by mounted knights, and so most of their training involved mounted fighting.

It's the same thing in Japanese sword arts. Not much training in full armor because that was mounted combat.

It would be entirely possible to have someone skilled in full armored hand to hand combat, if that was what they trained for and practiced. This is what the SCA heavy combat fighters do. You could also have someone from the professional jousting tournament circles come in and probably clean up, but they would probably make more money with less chance of injury in their own tournament circle, so I don't imagine there would be that much incentive.

What exactly is it that makes you think these fighters aren't trained or skilled?

 

[Steve]

Not suggesting they aren't skilled. My eldest son does SCA heavy combat, and he has had to train pretty hard to get good at it. That's why I was asking the question "skilled at what?" Many people look at this and say "look, historical fighting!" but it isn't. The only time you had fighting such as that was at festivals when they held tournaments to entertain the gentry, so not much time and effort was expended in learning to hit each other in full plate. Traditionally, full plate was worn by mounted knights, and so most of their training involved mounted fighting.

It's the same thing in Japanese sword arts. Not much training in full armor because that was mounted combat.

It would be entirely possible to have someone skilled in full armored hand to hand combat, if that was what they trained for and practiced. This is what the SCA heavy combat fighters do. You could also have someone from the professional jousting tournament circles come in and probably clean up, but they would probably make more money with less chance of injury in their own tournament circle, so I don't imagine there would be that much incentive.

What exactly is it that makes you think these fighters aren't trained or skilled?

I think we're misunderstanding each other. I don't have an opinion about whether they are skilled or not. I don't have any frame of reference. I'm truly just asking the question, and reacting to what folks are saying.

You said, "skilled at what?" That's a great question, and I don't think it's intended to be rhetorical. I'd like to know, as well. Are these guys skilled? If so, at what? And if not, is there room for skill in this?

@lklawson said they were just a bunch of dudes bashing each other. So, I'm really interested in him elaborating on the subject. I know he and others around here have some HEMA experience.

To be clear, I think the show is fun. I don't think it's intended to be taken too seriously, but the guys looks strong and relatively fit (well, most of them), and the kit they use is pretty cool. I can see some technique, but whether that is polished or not is hard to say. Is this similar to early dog brothers gatherings or early MMA, where the skill level was lower overall because no one really had experience, or is it just phony bologna schlock?

Either way, I think it's an interesting experiment.

 

[drop bear]

Totally. Like what?

Quite often at full contact fighting looks different and has different elements that will work that is not evident in drills.

Hand trapping for example while technically very skillful almost doesn't work at speed. And certainly not as well as big gumby style striking.

Dan kelly is a good example of an effective striker who doesn't look technical.

 

[Steve]

Quite often at full contact fighting looks different and has different elements that will work that is not evident in drills.

Hand trapping for example while technically very skillful almost doesn't work at speed. And certainly not as well as big gumby style striking.

Dan kelly is a good example of an effective striker who doesn't look technical.

Dude. Have you seen the show? They're wearing plate or chain mail and wielding two handed axes, and such.

 

[lklawson]

@lklawson said they were just a bunch of dudes bashing each other. So, I'm really interested in him elaborating on the subject. I know he and others around here have some HEMA experience.

Their armor isn't right. The weapons aren't right (no edges or points). The techniques they use are optimized for armor that is heavier than historically accurate in the wrong spots and constructed differently as well as optimized for not allowing for weapons which can cut or thrust into vulnerable areas. The <cough> grappling isn't optimized for armored combat (breaking joints, immobilizing for a thrust into vulnerable areas). There's some other stuff too, but you get the idea.

What they are doing seems to be "skillful" enough for their environment. But their environment is not the same as historic armored combat, or even historic armored dueling. It's a little bit like the difference between Kendo and an actual fight, but even further apart.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

Dude. Have you seen the show? They're wearing plate or chain mail and wielding two handed axes, and such.

Yes. But same concept. What is technically technical may not technically work at speed.