Jedi and swordmanship

[pmosiun1]

Hi, this may sound like a dumb question, but i was wondering since watching Sci Fi Science with Michio Kaku as the host. He talks about building a real lightsaber.

I was wondering since the lightsaber is within grasp. Will we be creating a new fighting style or based it on current kendo or kenjutsu style of swordmanship?

Based on my experience, Kenjutsu is more natural in terms of footwork and handling of a real samurai sword but will it be to slow for a lightsaber? Or Kendo would be too fencing like for a real sword fight?

I guess another question is will we be creating a jedi like religion? Part of it could be because the lightsaber is closely related to the jedi knights in star wars but also because a lot of people whom might be interested in a lightsaber might be a science nut and atheist?

http://mkaku.org/home/?tag=sci-fi-science

This is the discovery science show hosted by Michio Kaku.

 

[72ronin]

I dont want to sound arrogant or anything but, Are you serious?

Jedi religion?
I think they go by the name of mormons lol, or was it the jehova witness. You know, space ships and crap like that hahaha

Anyway, on a more serious note (?) you wouldnt have to swing a "lightsaber" lol around would you, so it may very well be more like fencing or kendo in its approach.

Hahaha thanks for brightening up my day

edit; i checked out the link, that dude is creepy man lol, and definately one of those new age religious types (shudder)

 

[Bob Hubbard]

There's already a religion based on the Jedi.

 

[72ronin]

"There is already a religion based on the jedi"

GASP, This coming from apparently the most powerful country in the world... We are doomed LMAO


edit; Which reminds me, whens that icebreaker gonna kick off and head for the hole in the north pole? you know, Admiral Byrd and the science of hollow planets!! What religion was that again? mormons wasnt it..
Better than going to the movies this stuff
Hey what was that recent movie, avatar or something!?! Im scared ROFL.

 

[Bruno@MT]

The light sabre is NOT within grasp.
You don't REALLY believe he can build a real light sabre do you? That was a joke, right?

Kaku is a respected theoretical physicist, in a discipline which has made exactly 0 verifiable predictions: string theory. I have respect for his knowledge, physical insight and math skills.

But so far, string theory, M theory, and all the rest have made no predictions at all that can be verified and which could make it supersed our current relativistic and quantum models. And it takes a lot of poking and prodding to make those string theory based models behave like anything we know in a context that we can examine.

I will be the last one to say theoritical physics is useless. It isn't. It has given us all our modern comforts and technology. It is not unusual for practial applications to lag a long time after the first theoretical principles.

However, to say we are close to making a functioning light saber is like saying we are close to achieving warp speed, teleportation, nano machines, traveling to a parallel universe or any of the other stuff typically encountered in scifi novels. And while teleportation is sometimes mentioned in popular tech articles related to quantum mechanics, it really doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[Chris Parker]

Okay, this is kinda half serious, half just for fun, and half just letting my inner geek have some fun...

Hi, this may sound like a dumb question, but i was wondering since watching Sci Fi Science with Michio Kaku as the host. He talks about building a real lightsaber.

I was wondering since the lightsaber is within grasp. Will we be creating a new fighting style or based it on current kendo or kenjutsu style of swordmanship?

Leaving off the "within grasp" aspect...

Should it be possible that such a weapon is created and made available, and ignoring the fact that such a short-range weapon will have little place in a modern military, or as a home-protection item, what form will it's use take? Well, a great part of that will depend on the physics involved.

In the original film, David Prowse and Sir Alec Guiness were told that the blades themselves would weigh nothing (having virtually no mass, instead being composed of a pure energy), however the method of holding the shape of the blade was achieved by charging the surrounding air, using something akin to magnetic fields to "push" the energy into the shape of a blade. The effect of this was to have the actors move as if they were constantly fighting to control the weapons, with the energies pushing it in all directions. This is why the "action" in this film is so much slower than the other (later) films.

This idea continued, to a degree, with Empire and Jedi, with the tempo being raised only slightly. By the time George and Co got to Menace, his ideas had changed. He now said that the reason the action was so slow in the early films was that "so far, we haven't really seen the Jedi in action. We have seen an old man, a half-mechanical cripple, and a boy taught by the old man. Now we get to see what they were really like, in their prime" (that was, of course, paraphrasing... but it was something like that!).

For the new films, George wanted a new style for the lightsabre battles. He employed Nick Gillard to come up with a new form, and Nick looked to as many sources as he could. Obviously, he included Kendo, but he also looked to fencing, European broadsword, and more unusual things such as tennis-strokes. So that is what makes up Jedi Combat in the films (I'm not getting into the 7 forms, especially not Vaapaad, the 7th form, taking you dangerously close to the Dark Side, giving Mace Windu his only chance against the evil Darth Sidious... honest, I'm not getting into that).

Based on my experience, Kenjutsu is more natural in terms of footwork and handling of a real samurai sword but will it be to slow for a lightsaber? Or Kendo would be too fencing like for a real sword fight?

I've probably spent far too much time thinking about this, but no, it is not like handling a katana or shinai. To begin with, the handle of a lightsabre is far too short, leading to a much narrower grip than a katana, which is again far narrower than a shinai. This leads to less manoueverability, but a greater feeling of control. You are also restricted from things such as bracing the blade with your hand.

As with anything, the use will be based on a number of factors: the experience of those using it, the strengths and weaknesses of the weapon itself, and cultural considerations. By that I mean that if you are used to a certain way of moving, that will be the base of your actions, you will use the length, cutting and blocking abilities of the energy blade, but not allow it to touch yourself, and a westerner will approach it differently than a Japanese, who will be different again than a Chinese person.

Out of interest, I didn't see any swordsmanship in your profile, what is your experience with swordsmanship?

I guess another question is will we be creating a jedi like religion? Part of it could be because the lightsaber is closely related to the jedi knights in star wars but also because a lot of people whom might be interested in a lightsaber might be a science nut and atheist?

You know, this part I just don't get. Yes, "Jedi" has been classed as a religion (in the UK, I believe. I think the loophole used was something like if at least 10,000 people put it as their religion for a census, it was in), but to my mind being a Jedi just doesn't cut it as a religion. There is no doctrine of faith, the Force is a tangible construct, it's effect can be demonstrated, it's transmitting units are able to be seen and registered (midichlorians), and not everyone is able to be a part of it, due to genetic traits rather than faith based ideologies. That, to me at least, does not a religion make, despite a few tiny references to the ways of the Jedi as one (from memory, only in the first film.... I think George may have altered his outlook on that).

So does it need to be a religion? I say no, it is not designed for it anymore than any training in a Koryu system, although it may be highly influenced by various religious and philospophical ideals, insists on you having a particular religious belief.

http://mkaku.org/home/?tag=sci-fi-science

This is the discovery science show hosted by Michio Kaku.

 

[Big Don]

Yeah, uh, thanks to Lucas and Episode One:Jar Jar ruins the franchise.
Wouldn't midichlorians make Jedi an ethnicity?

 

[Chris Parker]

Hmm, not really an ethnicity. I think of it more like a rare blood type, or even a genetic abnormality/disease, as it goes across almost all races and species in the Star Wars universe.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I think Chris has pretty much answered and said everything that needs answering or saying.

The big fight scene in whatever newer movie was stacked with many, many extra’s who where Australian kendo guys. If I remember correctly, I think one of the guys posted about it over at Kendoworld.

With Kenjitsu and iaido there is no flash. It is boring to watch because it is about killing your opponent efficiently, rather than impressing an audience. Close the distance, get off the line, get on the line, swing, stab, block, it’s all very methodical and efficient.

The size of a light saber tells me that it is a fencing tool more then a kendo tool. Lots of one handed moves, as all you’d have to do is “touch” your opponent with the LS. Kendo, iaido and kenjitsu you need two hands in order to connect with your hips and get some speed and energy into the tip, so the monouchi will go through your opponent. Using two hands shortens a weapons effective range, why would you do that on purpose when using a LS?

This discussion has been going on since the original movie came out back in 1977.

As for creating a LS? If it ever happened I doubt it would become a battlefield weapon, projectile weapons that put 2000 pieces of deadly metal into the air in a one minute time period is much safer for the aggressor and a much more efficient way of killing many people at a distance. A real LS would be used in industry and maybe the medical field.

 

[Chris Parker]

(Psst, Ken. It was the Reel 6 sequence in Episode II, Attack Of The Clones....)

 

[Ken Morgan]

(Psst, Ken. It was the Reel 6 sequence in Episode II, Attack Of The Clones....)

:jediduel:

You do realize how very sad that is Chris.....right?

 

[Chris Parker]

What? I was whispering! You weren't meant to tell people, Ken!


.... I mean, I don't know what you are talking about....

 

[Xue Sheng]

:hmm: hmmm, real or not I can’t help but think if all the bruises I got and various things I broke (copper pipe) when I first started training the Dao….. and I am still not all to comfortable with swinging a sharpened dao around my head…. Try that with a :jedi1: light saber :jaw-dropping: …. That is not a good thought :erg:

:yoda:

 

[CoryKS]

Screw the light saber, I want a star destroyer. I would be ballin'.

 

[Grenadier]

Can you create a quantum singularity small enough to fit in a lightsaber handle?

(the answer is "no.")

Even if you could create such a thing, could you manufacture lasers that are so durable and rugged, that being swing around vigorously wouldn't disturb the fragile optics needed?

(the answer is "no.")

We aren't going to be seeing lightsabers, except on the silver screen, plain and simple.

 

[Omar B]

I always found the visual amazing, but to use I would prefer a good katana any day.

 

[blindsage]

Why and in what context would anybody use a lightsaber except for "cool, a lightsaber!" sake. The vast majority of bladed weapons that people train in had or have some real context in which they were relevant and used. What context would that be for a lightsaber today? How would it develop since there is no contemporary context for it to be used realistically. And who imagines they would be legal to carry around if a regular sword isn't. Even if you could, what are you going to do, lop off someone's arm for trying to steal your wallet? Oh, wait, they had a gun, you're dead anyway. So much for Jedi training.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Why and in what context would anybody use a lightsaber except for "cool, a lightsaber!" sake. The vast majority of bladed weapons that people train in had or have some real context in which they were relevant and used. What context would that be for a lightsaber today? How would it develop since there is no contemporary context for it to be used realistically. And who imagines they would be legal to carry around if a regular sword isn't. Even if you could, what are you going to do, lop off someone's arm for trying to steal your wallet? Oh, wait, they had a gun, you're dead anyway. So much for Jedi training.

But you'd be a Jedi :jedi1: and be able to use Jedi Mind control :yoda:to make them beat themselves up

Sorry, too much Caffeine today :caffeine:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Why and in what context would anybody use a lightsaber except for "cool, a lightsaber!" sake. The vast majority of bladed weapons that people train in had or have some real context in which they were relevant and used. What context would that be for a lightsaber today? How would it develop since there is no contemporary context for it to be used realistically. And who imagines they would be legal to carry around if a regular sword isn't. Even if you could, what are you going to do, lop off someone's arm for trying to steal your wallet? Oh, wait, they had a gun, you're dead anyway. So much for Jedi training.

Imagine if you turned it on while holding it pointing the wrong way.

I've often thought that the physics of swinging those things around is all wrong anyway. Not the light saber itself, I'll pretend they could exist. But in the movies, they swing those things like they had the mass and heft and balance of a katana. From what I could tell, the only part that has mass is the handle. Try swinging a six-inch hunk of wood like it was a 3-foot long sword, and you'll see what I mean. The only way I could see it working would be if the 'light' part had the approximate mass of a steel blade.

Otherwise, a person could probably manipulate a 'light saber' a lot faster than a traditional sword, but it would also require a new skill set - it would just move entirely differently and 'swinging it' would be like the difference between swinging a golf club and a Wii golf club. In other words, not the same at all.

 

[CoryKS]

For that matter, how is Jedi even a religion when it's based on proven, measurable phenomena? You don't need faith because there's evidence that it works, it doesn't matter whether you believe in it or not because the midi-whatsit thingies are there no matter what, and you just a blood sample to verify it.