KKeokgi & Neomgigi.

Leo89

Yellow Belt
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
55
Reaction score
8
Location
Kansas
Can anyone tell me anything about these concepts, they seem like grappling/grabbing techniques.

I've got a digital student handbook so I'm sure it doesn't explain things as well, plus my master doesn't really go over this, but I'm loving taekwondo so far.

I've got a concept of a basic throw down technique from reading the description but I don't think it would work well.

I mean, we aren't taught grabs or throws, but they've got to be part of the curriculum, I want to learn taekwondo as a whole not partially, don't get me wrong, I love where I train at, I'm just curious as to if anyone could shine some light on this subject.
 

KangTsai

2nd Black Belt
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
809
Reaction score
167
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
Welcome to Martialtalk! I'm your Korean language 'man.'

Kkeokgi/篝赭萼 means to twist; break. This may refer to jointlocks or things relating to leverage.
Neomgigi/篣國萼 means to pass over. I'm not as to whether this refers to throws, as throws generally are classed with the suffix word 'chigi/儦篣.'

You can relate these words to your manual to see what they refer to.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
22,418
Reaction score
8,011
Location
Pueblo West, CO
...and what style of taekwondo exactly? If you aren't learning any grappling I would guess it's an ITF or WTF school.

There is no such thing as WTF TKD or WTF schools.

The ITF does teach some locks and throws (or at least, the ITF schools I attended did). The KKW schools that I've seen do, too, unless they're totally sport-oriented. Our MDK school does.
The OP gives us no indication how much training they have. Perhaps it would be more correct to say they have not been taught any grappling YET. It's not something we start with on Day one...
 
OP
L

Leo89

Yellow Belt
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
55
Reaction score
8
Location
Kansas
...and what style of taekwondo exactly? If you aren't learning any grappling I would guess it's an ITF or WTF school.
It would be a WTF school, they teach a lot of forms, so I might be 37 by time I'm first dan...Kibon and Palgwe, plus the standard Taeguk/Yudanja set.

But I've been really looking into the art and noticed a few ramblings on the web about there actually being grabs and throws, and so I thought I'd look into it, I downloaded a free digital student handbook and it mentioned things like Balmok-georeo-neomgigi / 諻諈 穇賄渠篣國萼 / Ankle Tripping-up Technique

And shows a video, but there's a popup in Korean and I think they might want you to pay to view.

I remember a basic arm/wrist hold and how to submission grapple from karate, so I'm just hoping there is some in TKD, if not, that's fine, I don't mind mixing things up.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,790
Reaction score
620
It would be a WTF school, they teach a lot of forms, so I might be 37 by time I'm first dan...Kibon and Palgwe, plus the standard Taeguk/Yudanja set.

Kibon just means basic. Most schools have at least one basic forms that are even simpler than Taegeuk 1. Palgwe aren't officially recognized anymore, but some places still teach them.

What Dirty Dog is getting at is that, while "WTF Taekwondo" is probably the most widely-used name for this type of TKD, at least in English, the World Taekwondo Federation is actually a sports organization that oversees international Taekwondo sport competition. The body that really oversees this style of Taekwondo is Kukkiwon (aka The World Taekwondo Headquarters). So "KKW Taekwondo" is more correct than "WTF Taekwondo".

But I've been really looking into the art and noticed a few ramblings on the web about there actually being grabs and throws, and so I thought I'd look into it, I downloaded a free digital student handbook and it mentioned things like Balmok-georeo-neomgigi / 諻諈 穇賄渠篣國萼 / Ankle Tripping-up Technique

I checked, and the Kukkiwon Textbook spends a whole 1 page discussing both neomgigi and kkukki put together, which probably tells you how much emphasis they place on that topic. Your technique was not listed.

Now, there are some grabs and throws, but they're often not emphasized very much. From what I've seen it seems like most places relegate them to some one-steps and/or the couple of places you see them in the forms, unless they're teaching TKD blended with another style. But it really depends on the school.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
22,418
Reaction score
8,011
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Palgwe aren't officially recognized anymore, but some places still teach them.

Sure they are. The KKW may no longer endorse them, but they are far from being the only group that can officially recognize a form set.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,790
Reaction score
620
Sure they are. The KKW may no longer endorse them, but they are far from being the only group that can officially recognize a form set.

That's true, but I was talking about Kukkiwon. Though I think I went back and added that sentence after I typed the part about WTF vs Kukkiwon, so maybe the "recognized by Kukkiwon" wasn't as obvious from context as it was in my head.
 

andyjeffries

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
319
Location
Stevenage, Herts, UK
I checked, and the Kukkiwon Textbook spends a whole 1 page discussing both neomgigi and kkukki put together, which probably tells you how much emphasis they place on that topic. Your technique was not listed.

The new Kukkiwon self-defence and step sparring (as shown and partially taught at the KKW FIC in July this year) does have lots more locks and throws (as well as ground escapes and submissions)
 
OP
L

Leo89

Yellow Belt
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
55
Reaction score
8
Location
Kansas
The new Kukkiwon self-defence and step sparring (as shown and partially taught at the KKW FIC in July this year) does have lots more locks and throws (as well as ground escapes and submissions)
Are there any videos on this that you could link me to? I'm thinking about buying a physical copy of the kukkiwon taekwondo textbook, but I've heard the English translation isn't that great.

For now I've been using a digital taekwondo handbook, but I don't know if it's officially endorsed by kukkiwon, it has their logo, but says Mookas is the app developer.

Anyways, I really wanna know this art inside and out, no matter how long it takes.
 

andyjeffries

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
319
Location
Stevenage, Herts, UK
Are there any videos on this that you could link me to?

Unfortunately not. I did record the video we were shown on the course, but we were told it was only a rough version of the content (they kept switching demonstrators, dojangs, etc and the titles were very plain), so they will be releasing an official version. They asked us not to share the video online (as it's only rough). Sorry. However, I can answer questions on if a particular thing was/wasn't on the video.

I'm thinking about buying a physical copy of the kukkiwon taekwondo textbook, but I've heard the English translation isn't that great.

It's not perfect, but it's understandable throughout. If you buy it and have any questions on specific part, you can always post them here.

Anyways, I really wanna know this art inside and out, no matter how long it takes.

Good attitude! Keep going and good luck my friend!
 

TrueJim

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
1,006
Reaction score
373
Location
Virginia
("Are there any videos...?") Unfortunately not...

<rant>

Does Kukkiwon do a better job of communicating in Korean than they do in English? Because I think this would be my #1 pet-peeve about Kukkiwon: that they seem to only use seminars to communicate any news of substance. For an agency that's chartered with worldwide education and cultural outreach, it seems they really do a poor job of using 21st century tools to communicate.

Andy's point about self-defense is a good example. I heard through-the-grapevine last year that Kukkiwon was encouraging schools to increase their emphasis on self-defense. So why not release some YouTube videos on that topic? Why not update your website and your Facebook page on that topic? No...we're Kukkiwon...we'll just mention it at a handful of seminars around the world, where hundreds of people can hear about it...that should be good enough. Arrrrgh!!!!!! Kukkiwon! It's 2016!!!!!

And why do they have no good online textbook? Their existing online educational resources look they were last updated when I had a MySpace page and dialed-up via AOL. I mean look at this thing, in this day and age it's just anemic: 窱匪萼 鴔 窷 諻梓頃科

Working alone, in my spare evenings, in between raising a kid and going to work during the day, I was STILL able to come up with something better.

I'm sure they have budget problems just like everybody else, never enough resources to do everything they want to do, but seriously...there's some low-hanging fruit here people!!!

</rant>

Thank you, I feel better now.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,790
Reaction score
620
<rant>

Does Kukkiwon do a better job of communicating in Korean than they do in English? Because I think this would be my #1 pet-peeve about Kukkiwon: that they seem to only use seminars to communicate any news of substance. For an agency that's chartered with worldwide education and cultural outreach, it seems they really do a poor job of using 21st century tools to communicate.

Oh my lord, yes. This is an international organization that uses gmail for official business. I really wish they'd get up to date tech-wise. There's so much they could do to help people improve and standardize.
 

oftheherd1

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
817
There is no such thing as WTF TKD or WTF schools.

The ITF does teach some locks and throws (or at least, the ITF schools I attended did). The KKW schools that I've seen do, too, unless they're totally sport-oriented. Our MDK school does.
The OP gives us no indication how much training they have. Perhaps it would be more correct to say they have not been taught any grappling YET. It's not something we start with on Day one...

Interesting to see how TKD has changed over the years. When I studied briefly in the mid-60s, there certainly were no throws or joint locks in the TKD Jhoon Goo Rhee taught. There may have been some buried in the forms, but they weren't obvious it they were. It would seem a good idea to teach some, but keep the emphasis on blocking, striking, and kicking.
 
Top