King of Tae Kwon Do

[JanneM]

I am not Krate kid, but I did TKD before the olympics, adn take downs were legal then. So too was punching to the head.

i too did taekwondo before Olympics and never ever I have heard taht in fightin (under WTF rules) punching to head and takedowns where leagal.
Before WTF was formed and taekwondo competitions was held under japanise boogu tsuki rules hitting to the head was leagal, but when first KTA/WTF taekwondo rules was written helmets was taken off and hitting to the head was no leagal. Takedowns were illeagal ion boogu tsuki rules too. Helnets and soft fighting area was brought to play by IOC's reques.

 

[rainbows]

Rainbows - Why would you care how we fight in WTF if you are ITF practissioner?

Because the Olympic style of sparring, by not allowing head punching, forces you to miss out on a fundamental part of your sparring.

 

[terryl965]

i too did taekwondo before Olympics and never ever I have heard taht in fightin (under WTF rules) punching to head and takedowns where leagal.
Before WTF was formed and taekwondo competitions was held under japanise boogu tsuki rules hitting to the head was leagal, but when first KTA/WTF taekwondo rules was written helmets was taken off and hitting to the head was no leagal. Takedowns were illeagal ion boogu tsuki rules too. Helnets and soft fighting area was brought to play by IOC's reques.

I have to disagree head shots where legal before WTF, Kukkiwon and so was take down part of the old training days. I have been in this Art for many year and have seen the changes each and every year. WTF and Kukkiwon have kicks head shot today just not for the Junior with those safety rules. They are going to let punches start to count again and even through its just to the body a good and close friend said to me last night that in a couple more year to the head with those hand strikes.

 

[Yeti]

I would erase Tae Guks from existence

Andy Cap...why would you want to do that?...having studied both ITF and WTF forms (Taeguk only..not Palgwe), I have to say I like the WTF forms much better. I can't seem to get past the sine-wave concept in the ITF forms...it seems WAY over-exaggerated and artificial to me.

However, I completely agree about getting rid of the walking stance!

-Mike

 

[Adept]

1 - Allow, indeed encourage a wider range of skills to be taught as a common part of training. Including throws, elbows, knees, grappling, and ground fighting. All aspects of this 'extra' training would be used widely as possible in sparring.

2 - Abolish hierarchical belt structure. The measure of your worth is in your skill and competency, not the colour of your belt. I believe this would help to ensure only dedicated students would remain at the school (unlike students who just want to reach X belt) and also make it harder for schools to milk students for money (thus reducing the McDojo phenomenon). Hopefully this would also end all this endless debate about who is certified, to what rank, with which organisation.

3 - The phrase "Patterns (forms, kata, etc) are the essence of Martial Arts" is punishable by public beating with a herring.

4 - Any and all tournament style sparring would adopt the UFC/Boxing style of scoring. To whit, the winner of each round is awarded 10 points and the loser is awarded 9 points or less based on things like ring control, aggressiveness, etc.

5 - The syllabus of TKD would be opened to allow any progressive techniques. No more "that's not TKD, you can't use it!". If it's effective, then use it.

 

[karatekid1975]

Andy Cap...why would you want to do that?...having studied both ITF and WTF forms (Taeguk only..not Palgwe), I have to say I like the WTF forms much better. I can't seem to get past the sine-wave concept in the ITF forms...it seems WAY over-exaggerated and artificial to me.

However, I completely agree about getting rid of the walking stance!

-Mike

I didn't like the Taegeuks at first (I also came from a different style), but I started to learn Taegeuk sam jang, and started to like them more (my fave is Taegeuk Pal Jang). BUT I too hate the walking stance. The way we are taught the Taegeuk forms, there is no walking stances in Taegeuk oh jang and above.

 

[Yeti]

I didn't like the Taegeuks at first (I also came from a different style), but I started to learn Taegeuk sam jang, and started to like them more (my fave is Taegeuk Pal Jang). BUT I too hate the walking stance. The way we are taught the Taegeuk forms, there is no walking stances in Taegeuk oh jang and above.

I hear you. Taeguk Sa Jang was the turning point for me. We also don't use the walking stance from Taeguk 5 (Oh Jang) and above.

-Mike

 

[hardheadjarhead]

It's time for something fun (and maybe silly).

Imagine that for one year, you are the King (or Queen) of all that is Tae Kwon Do. All practitioners of all martial styles within all organizations that consider themselves Tae Kwon Do must obey you. Your reign only lasts one year, but the changes you make may last longer. It can be an Olympic year if you so choose.

Tell us, your Highness, what your reign is like.

King?

First I would demand tribute--in gold--from all other martial arts. Failing that, I'd invade them, putting all who resist me to the sword.

I would requre a harem, of course.

I would mandate a "state religion," and would consider myself appointed by heavenly mandate.

Taxes. Oh, would there be taxes.

I'd want a castle.

I'd want to meet the royalty of Monaco, of course. And that of Denmark. We kings like to party together, you know.

I'd need a sceptre, a crown (size 7 and 3/4) and a robe. I'd want it designed by Carson Kressley.

I'd want an interview with the press...Paula Zahn gets first dibs. I would then woo her with my kingly charm.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Andy Cap]

Yeah I have to agree the higher Tae Guks are a lot better. I suppose I wouldn't eliminate all, just the ones with walking stance. Also in Koryo I would remove the walking stances in the middle of the form. It is a great form and very challenging up to that point.

 

[MichiganTKD]

On the contrary, in a form like Koryo, even walking stances have a purpose in the form at that moment. It is when walking stances become integral to the form itself that problems occur.

Another edict:

Noone could use hash marks, colored bars etc. on their belt to indicate Dan rank. Only standard numbers could be used.

 

[Andy Cap]

Well I am not sure why they would be so indisposable to Koryo, but if you think so...


As far as numbers on belts....I wouldn't have people show rank on their belts at all after black. Oh and no prewarn belts - that is rediculous.

 

[JanneM]

Because the Olympic style of sparring, by not allowing head punching, forces you to miss out on a fundamental part of your sparring.

but in ITF you don't spar in Olympic style.
If you do so in your school then thats extra.

 

[JanneM]

I have to disagree head shots where legal before WTF, Kukkiwon and so was take down part of the old training days. I have been in this Art for many year and have seen the changes each and every year. WTF and Kukkiwon have kicks head shot today just not for the Junior with those safety rules. They are going to let punches start to count again and even through its just to the body a good and close friend said to me last night that in a couple more year to the head with those hand strikes.

I don't think that punches to the head will be part of taekwondo.
I believe that it would change the fight too mouch that people in WTF wouldn't like it. This is pure IMO and another subjekt all together.

 

[karatekid1975]

I train WTF and I would love it ... of course I came from a hybrid style of TSD too (anything goes type sparring, just short of killing each other, and groin shots and face shots were not allowed for safety reasons. But anything like take-downs, grappling, ect was allowed ... at the dojang, not tournies).

 

[JanneM]

I'm sure there is lots of practissioner who would love to have punches to the head and takedowns in TKD fights. But the ones who in real life are deciding about those things have to think about so manyt hings.

Not allowing face hits and makin competition so mouch kickin was intentional by WTF so we would make a difference in a field of MA.
I don't see that as a bad thing. I like our rules.

 

[TigerWoman]

Queen of TKD....hmmmm. I wouldn't allow a black belt test before the age of 16 and that is conditional/recommended with staying in until 18 and then becoming 1st dan. There are too many teens in high school quitting including my son included. sigh! Cars, jobs, girlfriends, paintball, basketball, computer games,etc. The list that competes with it is endless.

I wouldn't allow testing unless x amount of classes are completed and only a half-hour workout and leaving counts as that-half.

Judging black belt test should be before a panel, not one with favoritism and partialty to family.

There should be a black belt class specific to their needs not to the needs of the lowest say, orange belt.

There should be a judging criteria sheet which all judges at tournaments have to abide by and record their judging. No favoritism or trump card!

I would have a personal goal sheet for each student so that by the time they are tested they have completed a progressive scale. Not just give 50 pushups-chin to the floor at the time of testing when allowing half pushups up until then.

I would require everyone to sing the words to the national anthem at a tournament not just play the music. Give out the words on sheets. We as a nation have forgotten it! How awful!

I would require students to do extra stretching and specific work on off class days. Too many students only go one or two days a week and want to test every two months expecting great things to happen.

Oh, and since I am Queen, nobody calls me Ma'am. How I hate that!~ TW

 

[Adept]

I'm sure there is lots of practissioner who would love to have punches to the head and takedowns in TKD fights. But the ones who in real life are deciding about those things have to think about so manyt hings.

Not allowing face hits and makin competition so mouch kickin was intentional by WTF so we would make a difference in a field of MA.
I don't see that as a bad thing. I like our rules.

To be honest, I think being different simply for the sake of being different is self destructive for the art. Effectiveness, not uniqueness, should be our primary goal.

 

[shesulsa]

Mod. Note.

Please, return to the original topic.

-Georgia Ketchmark
-MT Sr. Moderator-

 

[FearlessFreep]

I'm not soe sure about 'punches to the head' what is meant by that *really* and what is the point supposed to be?

I mean, a punch to the head could be to the face, or to the side or top of the head. Punches to the face could be to the cheek/cheekbone/jaw, to the mouth, or to the nose. Boxing uses massive gloves and is all about punching to the face and the body; I'm not sure how to make punches to the face really safe unless you put big gloves on. I thought from a pure fighting perspective that punches to the hard part of the head was a pretty bad idea (knuckes against skull). Punches to the mouth are not very safe either, for the puncher (cut fingers on teeth, infection, etc...)

One thing I didn't like abut some UFC fights I saw was that they were almost all about punches to the face (and ground fighting). I think that's a natural/instinctive reaction for someone to do in a fight, but not a very good one.

I think TaeKwonDo has so many good techniques available that are not or cnnot be part of any sort of safe sparring, but I don't think punching someone in the head/face is really the smartest or best technique to use. So while I would love WTF sparring to include more TKD strikes, and other moves, I'm not thrilled with the idea of adding face/head punches because I don't really think it's the best way to fight.

Here's an example. In one of our self-defense forms, we use a knife-hand strike just under the jaw line back near the ear. That's a very painful and sensitive spot to get hit and it only takes a bit of pressure in the right direction to get the head moving (we use it to start a takedown). I think that's an example of a strike to the upper head/face area that is probably, at leas I think, a little smarter than a punch to the face. That and knuckle punches to the trachea. I don't think they can be part of sparring, but I think there are a lot of ways of striking to the face/head area that are better than knuckle punches to the face or skull.

I guess if we are dreaming up ways to improve TKD sparring, there are a lot of things from TKD I would love to be able to use in sparring, but punches to the face are fairly low on the list. I would love to be able to trap. If you kick at me, right now I can either evade or block; I would like the ability to trap the leg and shove you over. I would love to be able to strike areas that are not legal target ares (like triceps and thighs). Even if it doesn't count. If you punch at me, I would love to be able to trap the wrist and strike your tricep. Or if I trapped our leg I could strike your thigh. Wouldn't score, but it would make it difficult to keep fighting. And takedowns. I alluded before that if you kick at me, I would love to trap the kick and push you over.

Anyway, it seems to me that if you could add a lot of TKD technqiues in terms of strikes, traps, and takedowns without really changing the scoring rules. Just the knowledge that an attack can be met and countered in a lot more ways, some painful and some embarrassing. This would just change the strategy and I think take it a direction that would be more inclusive off more of TKD as well as making it a bit more fight-realistic.

Just some random thoughts

 

[Marginal]

As King of TKD, I suppose I'd do the following:

Eliminate the fractional black belt. Provisional, almost, decided, really decided? Can't stand those ranks. Are you a BB or not? Either the BB's ready to test or not. Pass/fail.

No contracts. No black belt clubs. No promises that devalue the rank. (Hey. I'm the king. I don't have to take the plight of the "full time instructor" or the Stephen Ollivers of the world into account.)

I'd put closer to ITF sparring rules into effect. Already kissed up to the IOC. Time to move forward.

(Yes I know, it'd ruin the grand aesthetic of bouncing for most of the round then delivering a flurry in the closing seconds... Oh no!)

Most importantly, I'd permantly ban the phrase "You're not doing REAL TKD." Or any derivation thereof as directed at my chosen practice methods. Anyone willing to diss da king is going down. Go practice Martubenjodo or something that better appeals to your group identity.