Kicks Kicks and more Kicks
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
Have you ever tried to catch a full-speed, full-power, unexpected kick? It's not overly effective; generally, such a kick thrown by someone who knows what they're doing won't be caught; it'll go straight through the hand(s) trying to catch it. But like any other technique, the key is that the person must know what they're doing.
If you haven't been trained for it, don't throw it - but I do know of situations where it's worked; one of my friends was attacked by a wannabe mugger, and since my friend's hands were both full, he kicked his attacker under the chin. One kick, and the attacker was out before he hit the sidewalk. But then, my friend knew what he was doing - it's all in what you're trained for.
Well if it's "unexpected" I can't try to catch it. I *Have* caught kicks I knew were coming but again, as you already note, just as you have to know how to throw them, so too must you know how to catch them.(hint: fingers are not large/strong enough)
My point, from a SD situation, is most people don't have that skill (to catch kicks, I mean) - and if I were going to throw a kick in a SD situation, it wouldn't be expected; what would be the point of letting my attacker know what I'm going to do?
There I go assuming everyone I might meet in such a situation will be skilled on these levels(hopefully it'll mean I'm never caught badly by surprise too late though)
searcher
Senior Master
I am split on this subject. I have used low roundhouse kicks effectively and a few high kicks effectively, but I do tend to rely on my hands more than my feet. I will never say that any particular technique is not effective if the situation warrants its use. Any technique can work if you train it enough and any other number of variables fall into place(terrain, clothing, proximity to other objects, etc.).
OP
OP
So true
Brad Dunne
Brown Belt
There will always be those for and against, high vs low kicks. I have seen both used on the street in actual altercations. First was a guy coming out of a super market, with a bag in both arms. Just before he got to his car, some jerk steps in front of him and in the blink of an eye, the guy shoots out a low front stomp/push kick to this jerks leg (knee area) and the jerk went down like a sack of coal. Second time was two young guns having a shoving match playing basket ball. Wasen't long before they squared off and one guy had at least 3 inches and 25 lbs on the other guy. Again, in a blink, the smaller guy did a front snap kick to the jaw. What a mess, there was blood and teeth everywhere. The big guy went down like a big oak.
If anybody honestly thinks that kicks are no good for SD, I have a special on beach front property in Iraq........:mst:
If anybody honestly thinks that kicks are no good for SD, I have a special on beach front property in Iraq........:mst:
Kicks work just fine. Even for "grabbers"! How many of their matches are stopped because of a kick that lands below the belt? Those fighters are stopped dead in their tracks, and need a breather. In a real fight, there is no breather, and no ref. to stop you from finishing. They can be as practical as everything else.
I would imagine that the low sweeping kicks used in a style like Taekkyon would work well in a close situation. In fact, my Instructor showed us how to use these low kicks against the ankles and calves to force the opponent back. Then open up with middle and high kicks when he retreats and creates distance.
Nothing wrong with kicking; however, you must pay attention to how long you base off one leg, Do you adjust your body and hips for the action... (ie teetering), Are you kicking out of habbit rather than maneuvering for more effective close range combat?
Sean
Yeah, at my school we were taught how, if someone was knocked down but not out, to stomp and kick them until they were.
Time to stomp.
Sean
colinmatchett
White Belt
Sure, kicks are effective for self defence. It has to be the right kick at the right target under the right conditions. If your attacker leaves an opening and the kick can be delivered without losing balance, slipping on ice, or leaving yourself wide open for attack, etc. then kick and kick fast and hard.
Kicks are like pile drivers: enormous destructive power. Aimed at the right target, they'll inflict way more damage than anything else, probably. They have a second plus going for them: they can keep the attacker at a distance, by the very nature of things.
But they have negatives too, as people, both on this thread and off, have noted: they require you to balance your full body weight, with a very high center of mass, on one leg; and if they're caught, you have have many fewer options than if you throw a hand strike and your hand is caught. The lower the kick, the less these negatives enter the picture; hence my preference for low kicks as parts of SD techs.
So it's a matter of how skillful you are/how effective your kicks wind up being. There are low vital areas on the attacker's body, and a kick to one of these will end the fight as surely as a successful front snap kick to the jaw. And a hard strike to the knee will often come under the heading of 'limb destruction'; an attacker who can no longer stand up is not going to be much of an attacker after that, eh?
Simon O'Neil has a very nice article in the November 2005 TKD Times where he makes the observation that
One of the sequences he illustrates is a response to a grab with a countergrip on the attacker's grabbing hand(s), moving in with a hard knee strike to his abdomen and then a very severe strike downward with the foot of the already raised knee to the inside of the attacker's knee, very likely inflicting breaking damage on the joint.
There are many variations on the use of these kinds of kicks, and kick sequences, which allow plenty of scope for limb destruction and/or internal organ trauma. Kicks are useless? There speaks, for sure, someone who has no clue about what a good martial art kick can do!
But they have negatives too, as people, both on this thread and off, have noted: they require you to balance your full body weight, with a very high center of mass, on one leg; and if they're caught, you have have many fewer options than if you throw a hand strike and your hand is caught. The lower the kick, the less these negatives enter the picture; hence my preference for low kicks as parts of SD techs.
So it's a matter of how skillful you are/how effective your kicks wind up being. There are low vital areas on the attacker's body, and a kick to one of these will end the fight as surely as a successful front snap kick to the jaw. And a hard strike to the knee will often come under the heading of 'limb destruction'; an attacker who can no longer stand up is not going to be much of an attacker after that, eh?
Simon O'Neil has a very nice article in the November 2005 TKD Times where he makes the observation that
Kicking should be considered an effective means to achieve two main ends. One is to unbalance an opponent or limiting his mobility by inflicting pain or damage on his legs, thus allowing us to perform a finishing strike, throw, joint break or strangle. The other is as a finishing blow in its own right, usually to the body or head of a bending, kneeling or prone opponent.
One of the sequences he illustrates is a response to a grab with a countergrip on the attacker's grabbing hand(s), moving in with a hard knee strike to his abdomen and then a very severe strike downward with the foot of the already raised knee to the inside of the attacker's knee, very likely inflicting breaking damage on the joint.
There are many variations on the use of these kinds of kicks, and kick sequences, which allow plenty of scope for limb destruction and/or internal organ trauma. Kicks are useless? There speaks, for sure, someone who has no clue about what a good martial art kick can do!
Yes, but not formally until II BB.
newGuy12
Master of Arts
Yes, this is the end all of it. Some schools do not practice so much for SD. They kick high all of the time. But, these kicks CAN be good for self defense -- some people already know this, no problem. They are very dangerous, like sweeping kicks, those are very dangerous to do as well, and can give injury, but, for SD, to give injury is okay, there's no time to be jerking around, end it.
Yes, the ONLY people who will wish to use high kicks in a self-defense event are the students who practice these techniques ALL THE TIME. Kicking high, kicking targets high, doing it in freesparring, fast motion, breaking boards high. More, more more practice.
Then, there is no time to think when you are attacked by someone who wishes to harm you.
Someone who just casually trains high kicks sometimes, no. They will not choose to kick high, it is not their nature to do that. If it was their disposition to kick high, they would be practicing such motions regularly anyway. They will instead choose to kick the leg or maybe the floating ribs. In this way, they will have a better chance of "scoring the point" -- in SD, of giving a shock, knocking the person down, etc.
Of course, high kicks are just ONE thing -- no one thinks "No matter what, I will only kick to the head, always". Only a crazy person would think in that way.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Why would you want to when the knee is just standing there asking to be kicked.
Bottom-line if you are going to depend on kicks do exactly as the title of the post suggest when training... train Kicks Kicks and more Kicks
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