Music and Taijiquan

[Xue Sheng]

My first Shifu always played Chinese music when we did taijiquan forms, I was never a fan of that practice. My Yang SHifu never played any music, and to me, the music was a distraction from what you should be focusing on.

However today i saw something that made me feel that music with taijiquan might be a good idea in some cases. They are using dance with music, both seated and standing, to help those diagnosed with Parkinson's, and it seems to help them with their daily activities and give them some elevated sense of control. It is not a cure, but it does helo them cope. My guess, taijiqun, done with music, woud have the same effect.

My father passed away 13 years ago due to Parkinson's disease, so I tend to take notice when I see things associated with Parkinson's.

Although I still don't feel Music with taijiquan is a good idea for most, it gets you focusing on music, IMO, it becomes a dance. But for Parkinson's sufferers I think it could be a good thing.

 

[Appledog]

My first Shifu always played Chinese music when we did taijiquan forms, I was never a fan of that practice. My Yang SHifu never played any music, and to me, the music was a distraction from what you should be focusing on.

However today i saw something that made me feel that music with taijiquan might be a good idea in some cases. They are using dance with music, both seated and standing, to help those diagnosed with Parkinson's, and it seems to help them with their daily activities and give them some elevated sense of control. It is not a cure, but it does helo them cope. My guess, taijiqun, done with music, woud have the same effect.

My father passed away 13 years ago due to Parkinson's disease, so I tend to take notice when I see things associated with Parkinson's.

Although I still don't feel Music with taijiquan is a good idea for most, it gets you focusing on music, IMO, it becomes a dance. But for Parkinson's sufferers I think it could be a good thing.

Depends how you train. I have several playlists I use for different sets and so forth, depending on the crowd I'm teaching (or if I'm alone).

The thing with music is actually an exercise/fitness thing too, with some runners/walkers/etc. advocating music and some no music.

There are pros and cons. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss music, but I wouldn't use it all the time either. If you want a higher level answer, by the time it matters you will be able to tune out the music to focus on what you need to focus on anyways. If your having trouble with that, turn off the music. If your not having trouble with that, I say pump up the volume!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Depends how you train. I have several playlists I use for different sets and so forth, depending on the crowd I'm teaching (or if I'm alone).

The thing with music is actually an exercise/fitness thing too, with some runners/walkers/etc. advocating music and some no music.

There are pros and cons. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss music, but I wouldn't use it all the time either. If you want a higher level answer, by the time it matters you will be able to tune out the music to focus on what you need to focus on anyways. If your having trouble with that, turn off the music. If your not having trouble with that, I say pump up the volume!

IMO, in most cases, using music to train is distracting you from what you should be focusing on, and does not give you the results you should be aiming for.

In some cases, such as the Parkinson’s suffers, it is a good thing since it gives you the results you are looking for.

The use of music, IMO, depends on what your goal is.

 

[Appledog]

IMO, in most cases, using music to train is distracting you from what you should be focusing on, and does not give you the results you should be aiming for.

What should we be focusing on (during Tai Chi practice)? In the beginning I used to pick one of YCF's 10 points or a tai chi principle every time I did the form and work on that. After a while I didn't need to focus on them so much.

Is there something else that we should be focusing on that music would always interfere with? Or is it like math homework -- at first you need to concentrate but later on once you get better at doing the problems, you can listen to music while churning them out?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

in most cases, using music to train is distracting you from what you should be focusing on, and does not give you the results you should be aiming for.

Agree! You try to coordinate your movement with the music speed and not your own breathing speed, or your intend combat speed which defeat the purpose of your training.

The speed of Chang Taiji form training depends on my breathing speed that each move is either 1 inhale, or 1 exhale. If I try to follow the music speed and not my own breathing speed, the training will be all messed up.

 

[Xue Sheng]

What should we be focusing on (during Tai Chi practice)? In the beginning I used to pick one of YCF's 10 points or a tai chi principle every time I did the form and work on that. After a while I didn't need to focus on them so much.

Is there something else that we should be focusing on that music would always interfere with? Or is it like math homework -- at first you need to concentrate but later on once you get better at doing the problems, you can listen to music while churning them out?

Breath, opponent, stepping, movement, posture, air, etc. Starting by listening to music is, IMO, dancing. I can dance and think about what I had for lunch, what I am doing tomorrow. Basically it can be mindless. And thinking about one of the 10 principles, while dancing, and listening to music, is IMO, not focusing properly, It is a best distracted thinking.

 

[Appledog]

...while dancing, and listening to music, is IMO, not focusing properly, It is a best distracted thinking.

Do you think there comes a point where music can help you concentrate by training you to tune out distractions?

 

[Same Trick]

IMO, in most cases, using music to train is distracting you from what you should be focusing on, and does not give you the results you should be aiming for.

Agree with you on that, however with the correct focus the noisy tunes kind of gets shielded off.

Training in the parks here in China it might be quite a lot of noise and distractions around, groups playing cymbals and drums, someone sharpening his trumpeting or flute skills, a lively group of shuttlecock players, another keeps cracking the bullwhip.
It’s actually an excellent environment to train one’s focus

 

[mograph]

The synchronization with music helps with Parkinson's, ideally when done in a group, where the group is in sync.

My wife and I attended a seminar on using singing as therapy (below), and though the research on movement was preliminary, I can see the synchronization practice applying to tai chi.
As for helping you tune out and concentrate, I think it depends on the sound. Personally, I concentrate better when wearing headphones and listening to brown noise, because it creates an even baseline, muffling the potentially distracting noises of the environment. However, music doesn't help me concentrate, because I actually attend to (pay attention to) the audio stimulus. Music distracts me, in other words.

However, for me, it depends on what I'm working on when practising tai chi. If I am practising to improve a specific element, then no music. But if I'm using the practice as a means to an end, to energize myself for example, I find that Yo-Yo Ma's recording of Piazzolla's Libertango energizes me quite nicely. The cello mimics the moves, but the ostinato (repeating figure) of the bandoneon (like an accordion) just supercharges me.

It's kind of like my trumpet practice: sometimes I need to concentrate on an exercise, etude, patterns, and so on. But sometimes I just want to play the damn thing and feel good.

Naturally, YMMV.

Libertango:

25K views · 1.2K reactions | Wonderful performance of Piazzola's Libertango, with the great Cellist - YoYo-Ma & Ensemble. | The World Music

Wonderful performance of Piazzola's Libertango, with the great Cellist - YoYo-Ma & Ensemble..

www.facebook.com

Healing Power of Harmony:

The healing power of harmony

Psychology researchers at TMU tune in to the benefits of singing for people with communication challenges, reducing stress and social isolation

magazine.torontomu.ca

 

[windwalker099]

Agree with you on that, however with the correct focus the noisy tunes kind of gets shielded off.

Training in the parks here in China it might be quite a lot of noise and distractions around, groups playing cymbals and drums, someone sharpening his trumpeting or flute skills, a lively group of shuttlecock players, another keeps cracking the bullwhip.
It’s actually an excellent environment to train one’s focus

My experience echoes this

both in China and Taiwan, though perhaps less so in Taiwan. The parks are alive with sound as you mentioned, all part of the atmosphere. It may seem chaotic, it can help to sharpen one’s focus.

That said, there’s a difference between ambient noise and directed sound like music. Background noise stays on the edges of awareness… it doesn’t interfere unless you let it. Music especially when used to synchronize group movement becomes part of the training itself. Over time, it can shift the focus toward performance, just one aspect of the art.

The others — health and martial application — may quietly fall to the side.

In that sense, relying on music might even run counter to some of the foundational principles of a practice.

以静制动 – Using stillness to control motion

以柔克刚 – Using softness to overcome hardness

听劲、化劲、发劲 – Listening… neutralizing… then issuing

 

[Xue Sheng]

Do you think there comes a point where music can help you concentrate by training you to tune out distractions?

There should come a point that it doesn't matter, you already have the focus and anything that happens around you should not change that, but you will also be aware of it. So basically I do not see any need for music at all. And I feel it can be disastrous for a beginner, but eventually, it doesn't matter what outside noise you hear

 

[Xue Sheng]

Agree with you on that, however with the correct focus the noisy tunes kind of gets shielded off.

Training in the parks here in China it might be quite a lot of noise and distractions around, groups playing cymbals and drums, someone sharpening his trumpeting or flute skills, a lively group of shuttlecock players, another keeps cracking the bullwhip.
It’s actually an excellent environment to train one’s focus

I agree with this and I have experienced the cacophony of a Chinese park in the morning (Tiantan)
I should explain; there comes a point you need o ba able to focus/concentrate no matter what sounds are around. I do not feel it is beneficial for beginners,, but that is my opinion. My concern with music and training taijiquan long term has more to do with people starting to do the form 'to' the music, having to be a certain postures at certain points of the piece being played, having to start when the music starts and end when it ends. To me that is more the stuff of a group demo and dance that actually training taijiquan. But there should come a time when it does not matter, you already have the concentration and focus.

Once read a book written by an American Buddhist, can't remember the title, he want to visit a Tibetan Buddhist, in his home when he got to the door, he thought he had the wrong house because the loudest heavy metal music was playing. But he rang the doorbell, and the music stopped. The monk answered the door, and the American asked him what he was doing, The monk said meditating. The Amercan asked how can you meditate through that loud music. Monk told him it shouldn't matter, you should be able to meditate no mater what, when and wherever you are.

But back to Tiantan; I did notice in Tiantan that the really serious martial arts types tended to avoid that sections of the park where the people doing the waltz or samba, or the shuttle cock players or playing Traditional Chinese music, or (not kidding here) the brass band. You could hear it all from where they were, but it was not as loud as it was for the groups learning the Beijing 24 form right next to them. The 3 most impressive were a Wu style guy, way off in the stand of trees doing his form, two old gentlemen (looked like 70s or 80s to me) doing the most incredible long fisy I ever saw also way away form the noise, and I was training some long fist at the time. And 3 guys doing push hands, also off in a stand of trees, who when they realized I was watching, stopped and all stared smoking cigarettes. Question is though, were they avoiding the noise, or people in general, since the guys doing push hands stopped when they realized I was watching.

 

[windwalker099]

some might find this interesting..

In traditional lion dance (舞狮 wǔshī), does the drum beat follow the movement
or does the movement follow the drum beat

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't know about Tai Chi practice, but I have noticed that I can spar for a lot longer without getting tired if I have the right kind of music playing. (For me, that means something danceable with a good backbeat. Nothing too fast and aggressive or too slow and relaxing.)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is my favor demo music.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't know about Tai Chi practice, but I have noticed that I can spar for a lot longer without getting tired if I have the right kind of music playing. (For me, that means something danceable with a good backbeat. Nothing too fast and aggressive or too slow and relaxing.)

I had a xingyiquan shifu, who was also a musician, and he absolutely loved it when someone got a rhythm in their sparing..... because he would attack on the off beat

 

[Appledog]

In traditional lion dance (舞狮 wǔshī), does the drum beat follow the movement
or does the movement follow the drum beat

Hard to say. For some styles it seems like it is an important part of their practice.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hard to say. For some styles it seems like it is an important part of their practice.

Is it important to his training?
Or
Is is simply important for the performance/demonstration?